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Salesmen charged for selling $41,000 car for $66,000

Twister

Well-known member
Aug 24, 2002
4,811
544
113
GTA
Low blow or what?

The Mazda dealership in Orangeville may have given new meaning to the automaker’s slogan of “zoom, zoom, zoom” for motorist Madeline Leonard.

Leonard walked into the dealership wanting to replace the tires on her 2004 car.

By the time she left she was on the hook for a spiffy, black 2010 Mazda6 sedan at the eye-popping price of almost $66,000, after taxes and the value of her trade-in vehicle.

That’s $25,000 more than she should have paid, according to Ontario’s auto regulator.

She says “Moe,” the salesman, talked fast. The numbers whizzed by and before she knew it she had bought the 2010 model.

“I was overwhelmed and confused and I soon felt like I had been mistreated,” the 56-year-old woman said in an interview from her small, subsidized apartment in the town 85 km northwest of Toronto.

The Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council, which regulates new and used car dealers, took action after she complained. Its investigation found she should have paid about $41,000 for the vehicle — which wasn’t even new.

“In my eight years here, I haven’t seen a case like this,” said Carey Smith, the regulator’s director of investigations. “The deal was way over the top regarding pricing.”

Smith has charged Mazda of Orangeville and two senior employees with breaching Ontario legislation that protects consumers. The dealership could face a fine of up to $250,000 if found guilty.

Kien Trung, business manager at Mazda of Orangeville and one of the employees facing charges, said he did not treat Leonard improperly or make any big profits in the deal in late December.

“We didn’t do anything wrong in the case of this transaction,” said Trung. “We made a little bit of money on the deal. I guess she was not happy with it.”

In promotional messages, the dealership says it treats customers “with dignity and respect.”

But Smith said in Leonard’s case, the store and two employees used several tactics to unfairly jack up the price.

“They put a list price of a new vehicle on the model but it was a demonstrator that the dealer used with about 6,000 kilometres on it,” he noted.

Mazda Canada lists the base price of the new sedan at $39,969 on its national website, but the dealership allegedly posted a sticker of $45,846 on the car.

Smith said the salesmen also billed Leonard, who is intellectually disabled, about $4,500 for a “protection package” that included fabric guarding, rust and sound proofing and window etching. Other dealers charge about a third of that for the same items, he said.

Furthermore, Smith said Leonard, who is unemployed, should not have qualified for a loan from the dealer because her monthly income including a disability pension is less than $2,000.

But Smith added that didn’t stop the two employees from offering an eight-year loan that will result in about $16,000 in financing costs for her, including a final balloon payment of $7,000.

Mazda of Orangeville says in a promotional message for phone callers that owning “your dream vehicle might be easier than you think.” The message goes on: “If you are a great person with not-so-good credit, we have you in mind.”

Leonard said she originally came to the store to replace the tires on her 2004 Mazda3 and didn’t even want to buy a car.

“I wished I had never walked into the place,” she said. “I’ve had a lot of trouble keeping up with these payments. The stress has been terrible.”

Leonard described the salesman at the dealership as “slick” and the process mesmerized her. But after signing a contract and driving the vehicle away, she checked prices at other Mazda outlets.

“The differences were shocking,” she said. “I felt very disappointed how I was treated.”

The regulator charged the dealership; Trung, 38, of Vaughan; and sales manager Mohammed (Moe) Shaikh, 46, of Mississauga with “engaging in unfair practice by making an unconscionable representation,” contrary to the provincial Consumer Protection Act.

Trung said the defendants will plead not guilty when they appear in court this month.

Under the act, the employees could receive fines up to $100,000 each and/or two years less a day in jail if found guilty. The defendants could also be liable for damages to Leonard.

The regulator could also revoke the registrations of the dealerships and salesmen.

“Dealers tell me there is nothing wrong with making money but the law says there is something wrong if you take advantage of someone,” Smith said.

Mazda Canada said it would not decide on any action involving the dealership until a court rules on the charges.

“Obviously we expect our dealers and staff to operate professionally,” said spokesman Greg Young. “We’ll see what the (court) determination is.”

Mazda of Orangeville has also popped up on the radar screen of the Better Business Bureau of Mid-Western and Central Ontario.

Although the dealership is not a member, the bureau has received six complaints and issued a D+ rating on a scale from A+ to F since January 2008.

“It speaks for itself,” said a bureau official.
 

mmmburritos

New member
Jun 17, 2005
195
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0
I'm pretty sure what these guys did was unethical, but I'm not sure it's against the law. The buyer has to assume some responsibility here she did sign the purchase papers, and could have walked at anytime. Plus WTF is an unemployed person living in assisted housing doing buying a car like that? I'm not even sure she could have afforded it even if it was sold at market value.

One thing is for sure... this dealership is going to be the quietest lot in town now. And I'd bet that anyone who's bought a car from them in the last few months is reading their purchase agreement quite closely right now.
 

afterhours

New member
Jul 14, 2009
6,316
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Leonard the buyer is an idiot and as such should surrender her driver's license for life.
 

Kilgore Trout

Active member
Oct 18, 2008
2,490
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36
I think on a used car they can legally charge whatever they can get for it, even if someone is willing to pay a million for it.
Not cool of them to take advantage of someone who is mentally impaired.
 

KBear

Supporting Member
Aug 17, 2001
4,165
1
38
west end
www.gtagirls.com
Something kind of similar happened to my uncle some years ago. He was mid 70’s at the time, and clearly not all there mentally. He went into a GM dealership and wound up buying a used van, problem was he had no drivers license.

I called the dealership up and tried to get him out of the deal, but they had his certified cheque, and were not interested in releasing him from the purchase. They told me something like, the car was his, and they would park it in a field and leave it there for all they cared. We finally agreed on a cash settlement to release him from the purchase.
 

out4fun

Active member
Jan 8, 2008
971
45
28
Bad business ethics, but very scary to think that this is illegal. Perhaps she could get out the deal from not having the mental capacity to enter into a contract, but it doesn't seem that the price that a customer is willing to pay should be regulated. It's not like there is a monopoly in the auto industry.
 

Brill

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2008
8,672
1,193
113
Toronto
Some intelligent people can't say no to salesmen, people need to be allowed a grace period where they can back out of a deal like this. It was also fraud to sell a demonstrator as a new car.
I'm glad this was made public so we can weed out these unethical guys.
 

mmouse

Posts: 10,000000
Feb 4, 2003
1,853
35
48
The real problem here is with a society that leaves an 'intellectually challenged' person to do this kind of thing by herself. Where is her family and why aren't they looking after her?
 

ogibowt

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2008
6,904
3,759
113
I think on a used car they can legally charge whatever they can get for it, even if someone is willing to pay a million for it.
Not cool of them to take advantage of someone who is mentally impaired.
but the fact of the matter is that a demonstrator was sold as a new car....illegal no?
 

tboy

resident smartass
Aug 18, 2001
15,966
2
0
64
way out in left field
Something kind of similar happened to my uncle some years ago. He was mid 70’s at the time, and clearly not all there mentally. He went into a GM dealership and wound up buying a used van, problem was he had no drivers license.

I called the dealership up and tried to get him out of the deal, but they had his certified cheque, and were not interested in releasing him from the purchase. They told me something like, the car was his, and they would park it in a field and leave it there for all they cared. We finally agreed on a cash settlement to release him from the purchase.
which brings me to: how many read the fine print on the back of the contract? I read every line even if I personally know the people selling me the vehicle. Every time I read it the rep says: in x years you're the only one to read that......

A contract is a contract and yes, once he signs his name the vehicle is his. In good faith a dealership should release him from the deal, forcing someone to take delivery of a vehicle is NOT good for buisness, hurting or otherwise.
 

GotGusto

New member
Jan 18, 2009
3,701
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The real problem here is with a society that leaves an 'intellectually challenged' person to do this kind of thing by herself. Where is her family and why aren't they looking after her?
Should she be driving at all?
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
47,072
6,132
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thewoodpecker.net
I've heard of the "car salesmen" warnings before,(thought they apply to small lots) but didn't realize dealers are thiefs too.
Maybe that crooked salesman used to work for the Banksters in the US, then lost his bankster job and now sells cars.....
 

HOF

New member
Aug 10, 2009
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Relocating February 1, 2012
I remember in 1990 The Star told the story of an old couple that went in for a test drive and to get their trade-in appraised. At the time, some dealerships had a policy that you had give the dealership a signed blank cheque of yours in order for them to appraise the trade-in. The article said that once the appraisal was done by the dealership, the couple took the cheque and ripped it into itty-bitty pieces and left it in the dealership's trash-can. The salesperson taped the cheque together and IT CLEARED, putting them on the hook to buy a car.
Always take the cheque with you and shred it at home.
 

HOF

New member
Aug 10, 2009
6,387
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0
Relocating February 1, 2012
Low blow or what?

The Mazda dealership in Orangeville may have given new meaning to the automaker’s slogan of “zoom, zoom, zoom” for motorist Madeline Leonard.

Leonard walked into the dealership wanting to replace the tires on her 2004 car.

By the time she left she was on the hook for a spiffy, black 2010 Mazda6 sedan at the eye-popping price of almost $66,000, after taxes and the value of her trade-in vehicle.

That’s $25,000 more than she should have paid, according to Ontario’s auto regulator.

She says “Moe,” the salesman, talked fast. The numbers whizzed by and before she knew it she had bought the 2010 model.

“I was overwhelmed and confused and I soon felt like I had been mistreated,” the 56-year-old woman said in an interview from her small, subsidized apartment in the town 85 km northwest of Toronto.

The Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council, which regulates new and used car dealers, took action after she complained. Its investigation found she should have paid about $41,000 for the vehicle — which wasn’t even new.

“In my eight years here, I haven’t seen a case like this,” said Carey Smith, the regulator’s director of investigations. “The deal was way over the top regarding pricing.”

Smith has charged Mazda of Orangeville and two senior employees with breaching Ontario legislation that protects consumers. The dealership could face a fine of up to $250,000 if found guilty.

Kien Trung, business manager at Mazda of Orangeville and one of the employees facing charges, said he did not treat Leonard improperly or make any big profits in the deal in late December.

“We didn’t do anything wrong in the case of this transaction,” said Trung. “We made a little bit of money on the deal. I guess she was not happy with it.”

In promotional messages, the dealership says it treats customers “with dignity and respect.”

But Smith said in Leonard’s case, the store and two employees used several tactics to unfairly jack up the price.

They put a list price of a new vehicle on the model but it was a demonstrator that the dealer used with about 6,000 kilometres on it,” he noted.Mazda Canada lists the base price of the new sedan at $39,969 on its national website, but the dealership allegedly posted a sticker of $45,846 on the car.

Smith said the salesmen also billed Leonard, who is intellectually disabled, about $4,500 for a “protection package” that included fabric guarding, rust and sound proofing and window etching. Other dealers charge about a third of that for the same items, he said.

Furthermore, Smith said Leonard, who is unemployed, should not have qualified for a loan from the dealer because her monthly income including a disability pension is less than $2,000.

But Smith added that didn’t stop the two employees from offering an eight-year loan that will result in about $16,000 in financing costs for her, including a final balloon payment of $7,000.

Mazda of Orangeville says in a promotional message for phone callers that owning “your dream vehicle might be easier than you think.” The message goes on: “If you are a great person with not-so-good credit, we have you in mind.”

Leonard said she originally came to the store to replace the tires on her 2004 Mazda3 and didn’t even want to buy a car.

“I wished I had never walked into the place,” she said. “I’ve had a lot of trouble keeping up with these payments. The stress has been terrible.”

Leonard described the salesman at the dealership as “slick” and the process mesmerized her. But after signing a contract and driving the vehicle away, she checked prices at other Mazda outlets.

“The differences were shocking,” she said. “I felt very disappointed how I was treated.”

The regulator charged the dealership; Trung, 38, of Vaughan; and sales manager Mohammed (Moe) Shaikh, 46, of Mississauga with “engaging in unfair practice by making an unconscionable representation,” contrary to the provincial Consumer Protection Act.

Trung said the defendants will plead not guilty when they appear in court this month.

Under the act, the employees could receive fines up to $100,000 each and/or two years less a day in jail if found guilty. The defendants could also be liable for damages to Leonard.

The regulator could also revoke the registrations of the dealerships and salesmen.

“Dealers tell me there is nothing wrong with making money but the law says there is something wrong if you take advantage of someone,” Smith said.

Mazda Canada said it would not decide on any action involving the dealership until a court rules on the charges.

“Obviously we expect our dealers and staff to operate professionally,” said spokesman Greg Young. “We’ll see what the (court) determination is.”

Mazda of Orangeville has also popped up on the radar screen of the Better Business Bureau of Mid-Western and Central Ontario.

Although the dealership is not a member, the bureau has received six complaints and issued a D+ rating on a scale from A+ to F since January 2008.

“It speaks for itself,” said a bureau official.
For those of you that have said it's Madeline Leonard's fault.

She wanted tires replaced on a 2004 that probably has another 4/5 years left. New tires 500-800 dollars.

The Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council (Took Action) You know just like the College of Physcians, Lawyers, Accountants, etc.

2 Senior employees charged with Breaching Ontario Consumers Protection Act.
Dealer could be fined 250 000.00
The 2 employees if convicted could face 100 000.00 each and/or 2 years less a day in Provincial Correction Facility have criminal records.
Not sure why this Mazda dealer isn't a member of the BBB, but they've got an active file.
The regulator could revoke the registrations and the salesman.
The defendents could also be on the hook for damages to Madeline Leonard. I think PTSD for this should be 250 000.00 for her trauma and fear, and a brand new Mazda donated by Mazda Canada and serviced free for the life of the car!

She go car shopping; she went tire shopping! So Madelain probably knew she would be spending 500-800 for tires. Not 66 000.00 for a new a demo model vehicle.

IMO: The Dealer should be fined 250 000.00. The employees 100 000.00 each $450 000.00 and that $ should be given to Madelain Leonard, along with a free 2010 mazda with lifelong service free of charge and all the extras included free of charge!

How did she qualify for such a large loan? Something very wrong there.

The registrations and licenses of Mazda representatives remoked. 2 years less a day, in Maplehurst or Hamilton Detention. Mazda Canada should take over the dealership and good proper staff to sell their product.

There is the Fraud, I wonder if the OPP should be looking into that one.

Afterhours, mmmburritos and tboy. This dealership and two employees are snake oil sellers, and I wonder if it happened to your family or friends how you would react.

The only question regarding Madelain Leonard is she fit to be driving, but I'm sure MTO and her GP say yes. She probably doesn't drive alot. People don't have look like they have down syndrome to be intellectually disabled.
 
I've heard of the "car salesmen" warnings before,(thought they apply to small lots) but didn't realize dealers are thieves too.
Huh? Oh yes they are... I've had experiences with "upselling" needlessly attempts almost every time Mrs. CG goes to the local Honda Dealer. (Not where I bought the vehicle...) Anywhere from recommending new tires (after 23,000 kms) and new brake rotors, and pads (when there is plenty of "life" still left in the current ones... I stopped going to this dealership after the 3rd attempt for specifically this reason.... Bunch of shysters!
 

cute-bald

Banned
Nov 14, 2005
1,280
0
0
Toronto
I saw her on t.v. ...... all I can say is what an F'in MORON!!! They saw her coming a mile away!
 
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