Massage Adagio

American Cities that are dying (7 American Cities in Decline)

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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Oh yes, "Who Framed Roger Rabbit part two w/ Michael Moore: Roger and Me" LOL. He did a big gamble mortgaging his home to make the movie, it worked and good for him. Shame on GM for destroying Flint, Michigan...now I am off to buy a Mustang.

what percentage of his millions does Mikey Moore give to the people who made him a millionaire??
 

grooverider

Always with my Member
Aug 23, 2001
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Always in the Groove...
how many of them have a democrat leadership for decades besides Buffalo.

I will bet that decline and democrat goes hand in hand with these cities.
The article talks about the decline from 2000-2009, federally 8 of those years were republican years. So it's is the fault of the republicans.
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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The article talks about the decline from 2000-2009, federally 8 of those years were republican years. So it's is the fault of the republicans.
In Buffalo?????

You might want to research that

We are talking a local level not your butt headed federal crap
 

Bopper2

Member
Aug 6, 2003
509
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East of Eden
Buffalo's decline is kind of a perfect storm of events, starting with the opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway, which reduced Buffalo's relevance as a Great Lakes port to almost zero. Add in union intransigence as a negotiating tactic, the dominance of New York City in NY fiscal matters, the Blizzzard of 77 (and its lasting effect on the city's national image) and local politics and the slope gets very slippery.
As papasmurf stated democrats have dominated for decades. In my memory, I can only come up with ONE elected city oficial. A one or two term council memeber. All of the mayors from the 60's thru today were all Dems. The council, all dems. The school board, all dems. What we have is one party rule, and the USSR proved that one party rule is a disaster.
I don't know if one party rule by republicans would have had better results or not, but you need to mix in a few of the "loyal oppostion" to keep their eyes on the purse strings.
Buffalo politicians ARE among the best on the planet. It's when it comes to governing that they suck.
They are powerless in Albany and Washington. Their only goal is re-election, so the area continues to suffer.
 

hinz

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Nov 27, 2006
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Except for one thing - the Union Membership are the worst offenders for buying and demanding cheap Made in China shit (i.e. they are the ones shopping at Walmart, figuring that they will be so smart with their hard earned cash, but it won't affect their jobs).
Union members and their ilks-"I am not listening, I am not listening. Tell those bums to ***** it." :rolleyes:

As for Harpo, he's so Western biased it isn't funny. His take on Canada is that if isn't dug out of the ground in Alberta or Saskatchewan - it isn't worth defending.
LOL, we can tell for sure when the Chinese start a takeover bid for Bombardier or Microsoft starts a hostile takeover bid for RIM. The probabilities for both takeovers are remote though.
 

hinz

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Nov 27, 2006
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Buffalo's decline is kind of a perfect storm of events, starting with the opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway, which reduced Buffalo's relevance as a Great Lakes port to almost zero. Add in union intransigence as a negotiating tactic, the dominance of New York City in NY fiscal matters, the Blizzzard of 77 (and its lasting effect on the city's national image) and local politics and the slope gets very slippery.
As papasmurf stated democrats have dominated for decades. In my memory, I can only come up with ONE elected city oficial. A one or two term council memeber. All of the mayors from the 60's thru today were all Dems. The council, all dems. The school board, all dems. What we have is one party rule, and the USSR proved that one party rule is a disaster.
I don't know if one party rule by republicans would have had better results or not, but you need to mix in a few of the "loyal oppostion" to keep their eyes on the purse strings.
Buffalo politicians ARE among the best on the planet. It's when it comes to governing that they suck.
They are powerless in Albany and Washington. Their only goal is re-election, so the area continues to suffer.
Wanna bet another disaster is coming for Buffalo down the road? :rolleyes:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article296048.ece
 

userz

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Nov 5, 2005
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This is hardly ground-breaking news. These cities have been on the decline since the steel crisis of the 70's. Detroit can add civil unrest as another reason.

Toronto is a city that shows signs of decline. The city proper grows at a snail's pace, the financial house is not in order, and conservatives are in power in all three levels of government (two for now, three once Hudak gets in) and this will mean zero spending on infrastructure or expansion of services. Forget that expansion of the subway Ford talks about, even if the money was there shovels don't hit the ground around here unless there were 42 studies, 72 public consultations, 16 environmental assessments, 22 protests and sit-ins from special interest groups each wanting the money to go to a pet project like more food banks, homeless shelters, safe-injection sites, tax cuts, roads and freeways, a museum of something that nobody cares about, or some grand piece of public art that everyone will hate, so you'd be looking at 50 years for one km of track. 25 if the NIMBYs can be placated without too much of a fight. Don't forget all three levels of government have to spend about 15 years arguing that the other two levels of government should bear the entire cost of the project.


Toronto suffers from white-flight unless you want to pretend that the masses fueling the explosive growth in places like Milton, Oakville, Halton Hills and Bolton is really all immigrants. The west is the net benefactor of all this. The axis of power and capital is increasingly being tilted westward, and it's not at all improbable that within 20 years there will be half a million former Torontonians in Calgary who will remind the natives at every turn that they (Calgarians) are uncultured hicks, that the food and nightlife is better in Toronto, how great the Leafs are, and how Calgary just generally sucks -- just like the legion of former Montrealers in Toronto.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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Wanna bet another disaster is coming for Buffalo down the road? :rolleyes:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article296048.ece
See now, that's proof positive of my theory that what makes a city successful is a strong urban residential community, not a strong commercial community. (The chicken or the egg debate.)

I have always believed that if you have a strong urban residential community (i.e. people WANT to live in the inner city (like Toronto), then you will naturally attract and keep businesses in town. The opposite - a strong commercial base does not attract people to live downtown. Case in point this article about HSBC in dowtown Buffalo. The politicians of Buffalo would be wise to promote people LIVING in Downtown inner City Buffalo as opposed to sucking HSBC's cock. If Buffalo had a strong urban core that people actually wanted to live in - HSBC would be going nowhere.

Do you think if HSBC threatened to pull out of Downtown Toronto that City Council would give a fuck?

Never.

Growing up in Hamilton I saw the exact same kind of backward thinking - bend over backwards to maintain or encourage commercial over residential in Downtown Hamilton. It never works.
 

Rockslinger

Banned
Apr 24, 2005
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Toronto suffers from white-flight unless you want to pretend that the masses fueling the explosive growth in places like Milton, Oakville, Halton Hills and Bolton is really all immigrants.
Not sure what you mean by this. Have you seen the demographics of Markham and Brampton (at the risk of being called the "R" word)?
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
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The Keebler Factory
Except for one thing - the Union Membership are the worst offenders for buying and demanding cheap Made in China shit (i.e. they are the ones shopping at Walmart, figuring that they will be so smart with their hard earned cash, but it won't affect their jobs).
**Laughing**

Unionized workers are less likely to be shopping at Walmart because they can better afford to shop elsewhere.

Nothing like pulling "facts" out of your ass to destroy your credibility, LOL!
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,764
428
83
The Keebler Factory
Toronto suffers from white-flight unless you want to pretend that the masses fueling the explosive growth in places like Milton, Oakville, Halton Hills and Bolton is really all immigrants. The west is the net benefactor of all this. The axis of power and capital is increasingly being tilted westward, and it's not at all improbable that within 20 years there will be half a million former Torontonians in Calgary who will remind the natives at every turn that they (Calgarians) are uncultured hicks, that the food and nightlife is better in Toronto, how great the Leafs are, and how Calgary just generally sucks -- just like the legion of former Montrealers in Toronto.
I see you're a "glass is half empty" kind of guy...
 

Tangwhich

New member
Jan 26, 2004
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**Laughing**

Unionized workers are less likely to be shopping at Walmart because they can better afford to shop elsewhere.

Nothing like pulling "facts" out of your ass to destroy your credibility, LOL!
Where do you get your "facts"? I can't say 100% but I know a LOT of unionized workers and I can't think of a single one that doesn't shop at wal-mart.
 

GotGusto

New member
Jan 18, 2009
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This is hardly ground-breaking news. These cities have been on the decline since the steel crisis of the 70's. Detroit can add civil unrest as another reason.

Toronto is a city that shows signs of decline. The city proper grows at a snail's pace, the financial house is not in order, and conservatives are in power in all three levels of government (two for now, three once Hudak gets in) and this will mean zero spending on infrastructure or expansion of services. Forget that expansion of the subway Ford talks about, even if the money was there shovels don't hit the ground around here unless there were 42 studies, 72 public consultations, 16 environmental assessments, 22 protests and sit-ins from special interest groups each wanting the money to go to a pet project like more food banks, homeless shelters, safe-injection sites, tax cuts, roads and freeways, a museum of something that nobody cares about, or some grand piece of public art that everyone will hate, so you'd be looking at 50 years for one km of track. 25 if the NIMBYs can be placated without too much of a fight. Don't forget all three levels of government have to spend about 15 years arguing that the other two levels of government should bear the entire cost of the project.


Toronto suffers from white-flight unless you want to pretend that the masses fueling the explosive growth in places like Milton, Oakville, Halton Hills and Bolton is really all immigrants. The west is the net benefactor of all this. The axis of power and capital is increasingly being tilted westward, and it's not at all improbable that within 20 years there will be half a million former Torontonians in Calgary who will remind the natives at every turn that they (Calgarians) are uncultured hicks, that the food and nightlife is better in Toronto, how great the Leafs are, and how Calgary just generally sucks -- just like the legion of former Montrealers in Toronto.
Maybe, but I view Toronto as the New York City of the North. I think Toronto is going to flourish for a long time regardless of demographic changes. But I could be wrong.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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If the census data was taken over the last few weeks, Buffalo might look like it's growing with all the drunken Canadians visiting.

Sorry papa and woody. 4-1 was a pretty sad performance.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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It's called "White Flight" - when white people leave a city for many reasons (usually for the burbs) or white communities.

That said, I really don't know how "black" those cities are. I would think that NO would be the most black (maybe I'm wrong, dunno).

I find the topic of City Demographics to be very interesting. What makes some inner cities thrive and be a sought after place to live (such as our very own Toronto, or NYC, or San Francisco, or Chicago (to cite a few American cities)) vs. others that wither and die (like the above), and others attempt a comeback (was reading about Portland Oregon for example).
Chicago is out of place in your link, JTK. I visited there about 10 years ago and the downtown dies after 6 PM and godawlmighty, just trying to find a burger joint in downtown Chi or the Near North is impossible. It's all moved out to the burbs.

SF has its scenery and has always been an unconventional city by US standards. NYC has the arts and entertainment world and the attractions of Manhattan. TO was relatively small up to the 70's and had a low crime rate and no entrenched Black population in the city core to scare off the white middle class who wished to move back d/t from the burbs. ALL of those cities have a pop which is far hipper and cooler than your average US rust belt dump.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts