Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 hijacked, official says

[Aardvark154]

So have the Americans.

I seem to recall that they shot down an Iranian airbus a few years ago that was going away from the US ship and climbing and the Americans thought that it was descending at them.

Killed everyone on board.

Presumably the Malaysians weren't involved in a dust-up with speed boats in confined waters at the time - not that this does anything for the families of those on either aircraft.

I will say that a significant difference between KAL-007 and Iran Air-655 is that the Soviets never made any apology or paid compensation while the United States did both.

 

[Insidious Von]

If the plane went down in the open Indian Ocean it may never be found. The waters there are very rough and very deep, it's the area where the Indian Monsoons gather strength.

 

[danmand]

I will say that a significant difference between KAL-007 and Iran Air-655 is that the Soviets never made any apology or paid compensation while the United States did both.

There is another significant difference that you fail to mention, namely that KAL-007 flew into Soviet airspace, while Iran Air 655 never came that close to the US mainland.

 

[Aardvark154]

If the Malayain airline was instead a bomber on a surprise nuclear strike over the Pacific - the US wouldn't know about the incoming aircraft ? That is the aspect I find amazing.

In a very short sighted decision I am sorry to say all three Over-the Horizon-Backscatter radar systems with a range of about 3,000 miles (4,800 km) were decommissioned and destroyed during the Bush Administration. The Russians meanwhile still have and indeed have improved a system with but slightly shorter range.

The Australians also have a OTH-B system but officially it doesn't have the range to have tracked this flight.

 

[Aardvark154]

There is another significant difference that you fail to mention, namely that KAL-007 flew into Soviet airspace, while Iran Air 655 never came that close to the US mainland.

Hmm, you are urging NORAD to begin shooting down all off course commercial airliners?

Because otherwise failing to apologize and pay compensation is justified how?

 

[danmand]

Hmm, you are urging NORAD to begin shooting down all off course commercial airliners?

Because otherwise failing to apologize and pay compensation is justified how?

Don't play stupid.

 

[Stoo]

My money is on a simple mechanical failure, with either a water crash or midair explosion... probably right where it disappeared from radar. Sure they've been searching, but it could take months to find wreckage. The plane that went down off the coast of Brazil a few years ago just "disappeared" too. When everything was said and done, it was an iced-up pitot tube. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one...

Although it makes for a dull thread.

But the reality is that at this point, there is absolutely no evidence of any sort to indicate what happened to this plane. If it was a political/terrorist act, then the whole point of the "attack" is lost when the plane just vanishes. They need a big boom and a body count, or what's the point...?

And let's face it, it just isn't that easy to make a plane vanish.

 

[Aardvark154]

Don't play stupid.

Oh here from what you wrote I clearly thought that was what you were saying rather than merely taking a cheap shot at the U.S.A.

 

[Aardvark154]

This is like "Who's on First" or the Keystone Kops."

Now Malaysian Airlines is saying that it is unknown whether the transponder, ACAS etc. . . were turned off before or after the last voice communication.

 

[whitewaterguy]

Oh here from what you wrote I clearly thought that was what you were saying rather than merely taking a cheap shot at the U.S.A.

totally outclassed, out-debated and outed on your facts, post upon post and thread upon thread by Blue Laser, so resorting to cheap shots elsewhere eh?? looks good on ya! Where's Blackrock when you need him. Oh, in the other room sleeping?

 

[Aardvark154]

totally outclassed, out-debated and outed on your facts, post upon post and thread upon thread by Blue Laser

Oh yes, on a Canadian board, I realize that the current flows pro-Ukrainian, that doesn't mean that there isn't another valid perspective. But I realize a bit like attempting to discuss actual Irish political realities in South Boston.

 

[SchlongConery]

I said ACARS is NOT a subscription. It's a module. I talked to my maintenance crew today. I don't fly 777s, but I do fly bigger Boeings. When you buy sat-enabled ACARS, you buy a module that has two plugs - one goes to the sattelite comm system, one to the engine. .

I was under the same understanding but I have since read that the Inmarsat SAT Antenna is itself a transponding 2 way device independant of the ACARS module and that it pings the Inmarsat constellation when VHF ACARS comm is unavailable. The antenna itself is powered and a full transciever itself. It will transmit empty messages with only its ID, and the Satellite will reply in acknowledgement.

Inmarsat said this is how they got the pings for several hours.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Presumably the Malaysians weren't involved in a dust-up with speed boats in confined waters at the time - not that this does anything for the families of those on either aircraft.

I will say that a significant difference between KAL-007 and Iran Air-655 is that the Soviets never made any apology or paid compensation while the United States did both.

I remember Harold Ballard back in the day refused to allow the Soviet Hockey Team to play at Maple Leaf Gardens, as he called the Soviets murderers.

 

[GPIDEAL]

My money is on a simple mechanical failure, with either a water crash or midair explosion... probably right where it disappeared from radar. Sure they've been searching, but it could take months to find wreckage. The plane that went down off the coast of Brazil a few years ago just "disappeared" too. When everything was said and done, it was an iced-up pitot tube. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one...

Although it makes for a dull thread.

But the reality is that at this point, there is absolutely no evidence of any sort to indicate what happened to this plane. If it was a political/terrorist act, then the whole point of the "attack" is lost when the plane just vanishes. They need a big boom and a body count, or what's the point...?

And let's face it, it just isn't that easy to make a plane vanish.

Wasn't pitot tube plugged with a certain kind of bug (or was that another plane crash)?

I still think that it's possible that a foreign country may have shot down that plane if it refused to respond to signals from dispatched fighter aircraft, and they are quiet about it now.

 

[BlueLaser]

I was under the same understanding but I have since read that the Inmarsat SAT Antenna is itself a transponding 2 way device independant of the ACARS module and that it pings the Inmarsat constellation when VHF ACARS comm is unavailable. The antenna itself is powered and a full transciever itself. It will transmit empty messages with only its ID, and the Satellite will reply in acknowledgement.

Inmarsat said this is how they got the pings for several hours.

Which is entirely possible. I never said inmarsat didn't receive any signal. I said it wasn't an ACARS one. Not via satellite.

 

[GPIDEAL]

In a very short sighted decision I am sorry to say all three Over-the Horizon-Backscatter radar systems with a range of about 3,000 miles (4,800 km) were decommissioned and destroyed during the Bush Administration. The Russians meanwhile still have and indeed have improved a system with but slightly shorter range.

The Australians also have a OTH-B system but officially it doesn't have the range to have tracked this flight.

Is this the same as look-down radar or some other system whose name I forgot now which was banned by some arms treaty (or am I confusing this with something else)?

 

[SkyRider]

"In September 1980, the war between Iraq and Iran had expanded to include air attacks against oil tankers and merchant shipping of neighboring countries. The Flight 655 incident occurred a year after the 17 May 1987, Iraqi Air Force attack on the U.S. Navy guided-missile frigate USS Stark. U.S. naval forces had also exchanged gunfire with Iranian gunboats in the fall of 1987, and the U.S. Navy guided-missile frigate USS Samuel B. Roberts had struck an Iranian sea mine in April 1988. Two months before the incident the US had engaged in Operation Praying Mantis resulting in the sinking of theIranian frigate Sahand. Tensions were therefore high in the Strait of Hormuz at the time of the incident with Flight 655."

A tragic mistake in a war zone.

 

[BlueLaser]

Oh yes, on a Canadian board, I realize that the current flows pro-Ukrainian, that doesn't mean that there isn't another valid perspective. But I realize a bit like attempting to discuss actual Irish political realities in South Boston.

No one who knows me would call me pro-Ukraine. I was pretty vocal about my opinion that Euromaiden represented a small portion of Ukraine's population and that the majority wouldn't share their view. I was pretty vocal about their right-wing, nationalist views. I was pretty vocal about how the EU trade deal provided a bail out, which Ukraine desperately needs, but with a ton of strings whereas Russia was more straight-up. Perhaps not here because i wasn't that active here at the time, but still...

Just because I refute your claim that Crimea was "never part of Ukraine" doesn't mean I'm pro-Ukraine. It means I'm pro-reality. A corrupt moderate government was ousted, and if Euromaiden get their way, a corrupt, oppressive, nationalist government will move in. On one hand, I think Ukraine needs a better national identity. That will help it finally create a sustainable economy. On the other hand, how has a pro-national Quebec worked out? Pretty piss-poor, so maybe I'm wrong. However, safeguards need to be put in place to protect the Russians in the country if this happens. We don't need yet another country belonging to one religious or cultural group that subverts and treats the other religious or cultural as less-than-human. There are enough of those out there.

And in case you're wondering, I speak decent Russian but only know about 4 words in Ukrainian. None of them very polite. And I don't fly to Russia. So if you think about it for a second, I think logic will reveal there must be a reason I speak Russian and, therefore, I probably have some affiliation that sways me to the Russian side of the argument.

 

[Aardvark154]

Is this the same as look-down radar or some other system whose name I forgot now which was banned by some arms treaty (or am I confusing this with something else)?

At first I was But I believe what you my be thinking of was the Soviet phased-array radar in Krasnoyarsk, Siberia which was a violation of the ABM treaty.

So no this is different OTH-B can look up but principally it looks down but well over the horizon. A a traditional radar can look at the moon but it can't look at something at 40 meters off the surface 500 miles away an OTH-B radar can.

 

[BlueLaser]

Wasn't pitot tube plugged with a certain kind of bug (or was that another plane crash)?

I still think that it's possible that a foreign country may have shot down that plane if it refused to respond to signals from dispatched fighter aircraft, and they are quiet about it now.

Yup. Pitot tube blocked. I believe it was icing though.