But unlike TML he'll have the team around him to cover his deficiencies. VGK roster has competitors and winners on it. Not a generational talent who checks out come playoff time.
Marner regret on both sides?
- Thread starter Birf
- Start date
Leafs are the 5th highest scoring team in the league this season. Scoring at a higher rate.
Last season they were 7th.
Leafs have 3 players scoring at a higher rate than Marner this season.
Nylander has a better +/- than Marner this season.
Leafs PK this season is 15th. Last season they were 17th.
Leafs are just starting to use the 5 forward PP so it's to be determined.
Leafs 11 wins 14 losses. Vegas 11 wins 14 losses.
So Vegas gained a so called 100 point scorer yet they have exactly the same amount of wins 11 in the same amount of games 25.
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Here's my take: Marner was a phenomenal player. He could help elevate others to become offensive threats. Remember when he got into the league and he was playing with Van Riemsdy and Bozak. He is one of the best Leafs the team ever drafted and developed. His regular season play has been amazing. Obviously, the playoffs are a different story. And, I feel that he got an oversized amount of the criticism compared to others in the core four. I mean, you can't slam Matthews, he's a generational goal scorer, Tavarese was a stud and free agent, and Willie...well, he got a lot of hate when he held out for so long...But, they all seemed to mostly disappear when the games mattered the most.
I think one reason Marner gets criticism is that his dad and agent argued that he was the equal of Matthews and deserved at $11M contract, which hobbled the Leafs with the cap. Now, if COVID never hit, the salary cap would have continued to rise, and it wouldn't have been such an issue for the Leafs. And, I think a lot of fans blamed him for all of that, despite him scoring 517 points in 416 regular season games (or 1.24 points per games) over that contract (though he only scored 46 points in 57 playoff games (or 0.81/ppg). BUT....I would point out that he scored over a point per game in the last playoffs (14 points in 13 games)
Now, that being said, losing Marner for Roy (or really, anybody) sucks. You cannot replace that talent. The only bright spot is the salary cap relief, but you need to actually use it to sign good players. Toronto needs a sandpaper dude with some skill. Like a Tom Wilson or a lower tiered Tkachuk/Sam Bennet. Guys that can fuck shit up but can also score...
Now, I have a weird feeling that Toronto is going to surprise people come the playoffs. I mean, I think they might just squeeze in, but could go on a shockingly long run...Now, would I bet money on that....no....But, it would be nice to see happen...
As for Marner in Vegas....I think he'll turn it around and start showing those flashes of skill and help elevate others. It takes a while to learn a new system and the tendencies of his line mates. I honestly wish him the best. I'm not thrilled about how he left things, but I also sort of think he resented all the negative coverage or bad takes by the fans about him. I honestly think he LOVED being a Leaf, but felt that he was the whipping boy. And, for that, I don't blame him for wanting a change of scenery.
I think one reason Marner gets criticism is that his dad and agent argued that he was the equal of Matthews and deserved at $11M contract, which hobbled the Leafs with the cap. Now, if COVID never hit, the salary cap would have continued to rise, and it wouldn't have been such an issue for the Leafs. And, I think a lot of fans blamed him for all of that, despite him scoring 517 points in 416 regular season games (or 1.24 points per games) over that contract (though he only scored 46 points in 57 playoff games (or 0.81/ppg). BUT....I would point out that he scored over a point per game in the last playoffs (14 points in 13 games)
Now, that being said, losing Marner for Roy (or really, anybody) sucks. You cannot replace that talent. The only bright spot is the salary cap relief, but you need to actually use it to sign good players. Toronto needs a sandpaper dude with some skill. Like a Tom Wilson or a lower tiered Tkachuk/Sam Bennet. Guys that can fuck shit up but can also score...
Now, I have a weird feeling that Toronto is going to surprise people come the playoffs. I mean, I think they might just squeeze in, but could go on a shockingly long run...Now, would I bet money on that....no....But, it would be nice to see happen...
As for Marner in Vegas....I think he'll turn it around and start showing those flashes of skill and help elevate others. It takes a while to learn a new system and the tendencies of his line mates. I honestly wish him the best. I'm not thrilled about how he left things, but I also sort of think he resented all the negative coverage or bad takes by the fans about him. I honestly think he LOVED being a Leaf, but felt that he was the whipping boy. And, for that, I don't blame him for wanting a change of scenery.
Remember his overly critical words of Cito Gaston, bordering on racism? He criticizes the hell out of a manager that won the World Series in 1992 and then did it again with an almost completely different team in 1993. What was it? 15 players left from the 1992 roster and Gaston still won back to back? Criticized how talented the roster was and how easy it was to win… Simultaneously dumping on Gaston claiming it took no managerial talent to win… Since when does a championship team not have good players? I see some weird podcast once in a while where he's sitting in some weird living room setting…
Steve Simmons is an idiot.
Philip
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Ummm, that would be Rantanen. You want someone that can put a guy out of the playoffs. He's your guy.
Leafs didn't need to be in a position for Marner to veto a trade for a "sandpaper dude with skill".
Dubas more than likely was ready to trade Marner until Shanahan stepped in.
The Leafs at that stage had all the evidence they needed to know what they lacked.
Instead Shanahan doubled down. Literally traded 2 first round picks.
For what turned out to be a soft defenseman and a 4th line center who's offensively challenged.
Used Marner for his own farewell tour. He hired a yes man of a GM to do his bidding.
Imagine a team with Matthews, Knies, Rantanen, Tavares, Nylander, Cowboy.
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That 92 Blue Jays team beat a Braves team that had the best pitching rotation in history.
If it wasn't for Mark Hunter or Shanahan being greedy. The Leafs would've traded down and drafted Mikko or Weremski to replace O'reilly
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Speaking of sandpaper with some skill the Leafs voluntarily dismissed Kadri and Hyman.
Players they deemed not necessary or lacked the competence to keep them around.
Instead they threw away 1st round draft picks left and right to try to get such players as rentals.
Players they deemed not necessary or lacked the competence to keep them around.
Instead they threw away 1st round draft picks left and right to try to get such players as rentals.
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You mean he needs to adjust to playing with a real team. A team that isn't afraid to push back. A team that doesn't just bend to whatever #34 wants.
Good luck. Every team in the league is looking for guys like that.
...and this was just one year before the arrival of Greg Maddox. Would be interesting to do a documentary about missed umpire calls over the years, including the strike zone. Those great Atlanta pitchers like Smoltz, Glavin and Maddox totally lived on the outside corner. Back in the days when the umpire would give it to you because of reputation.
Philip
Marner is 2nd on VGK with a plus 6. 19 of his 25 points have been at even strength. Certainly not poor production and I expect this to only get better as the season progresses. We're still looking at a relatively short window. I am confident that by season's end VGK will have a significantly better record than Toronto. Mark Stone has been out for 17 games, their starting goalie has been out almost the entire season. They just signed Carter Hart, we'll see how that goes.
I understand the frustration with Marner which is why I'm equally, if not more, frustrated with our captain who is at least as equally to blame for not showing up when it counts.
