anti-viris hype?

[Armagettin]

I have a couple of computers. I put them together so I know a little about them. Just enough to get into trouble.

The main computer I use for online gaming and other internet activity including banking etc. The Norton software was killing the performance and roughly once a year I reformat the HD and do a clean install of the OS just to keep it running well.

A year ago I did a clean install but but did not install any anti-virus software whatsoever. A year later, this machine is running perfectly. It is stable, fast, not buggy etc. After a year of unprotected surfing the internet, loads of email, porn, games etc., I thought I was pushing my luck so downloaded some recommended virus software and did a full scan. The result was 0. Nada. Not even any data miners. I downloaded some other software like adaware etc. and tried again. Zero.

What the hell is going on?

A few things I do...
On my main email account, I trace all spam email and contact the IP for the sender (useless I know), the advertising website if any and originating IP. The result is that I have no spam filter on and only receive one or two spam a week so now the maintenance time is minimal.

All website inquiries, purchases etc. are done through a sacrifice hotmail account. It now gets over a 100 spam per day.

I don't get sucked in by opening attachments unless I am certain of their legitimacy.

I never save passwords. Always click 'do not remember'. I think the only way of getting this info now would be from a key logger. I might be wrong in this.

Any thoughts? I wonder if anti-virus software actually attracts viruses.

 

[WoodPeckr]

First off I think you have been very lucky. What OS are you running?

That said, I have heard of people doing this with the same results you have experienced. A buddy is doing the same thing now also for over a year. He got a new PC and decided to keep his old XP PC online and run it with no AV because of the way Norton hogged resources on his old PC, just to see what would happen. He said it ran much better also with no AV. He has Verizon DSL in WNY which claims to have some of their own AV running so maybe that is protecting him. So far he says that old box is running fine. Does your IP have a built-in AV running?

 

[Anynym]

I hope that you have also been keeping your patches up to date?

Generally, there haven't been nearly as many problems for WinXP as there are for Win2K. Doesn't leave you immune, but like you suggest there's room for positive results

 

[enyaw]

A unique approach for sure, but you are playing with fire. It's a matter of time before something happens. Chaos theory, a very good/bold experiment. Depending on your OS. If you get zapped please let us know. At least you have more than one machine

good luck

 

[tboy]

It also depends a LOT on what you use it for. For eg: if you only go to reputable sites from major corporations (ie: ebay, sears, Canadian Tire, toronto sun etc) the odds of you getting a virus or spyware from them are nil.

Same as emails, if you're not getting any dodgy ones for generic viagra and never open or receive attachements, then yeah, you should be fine.

BUT (a great big JLO butt) when you fire up your PC, there are apps out there that search for computers with no firewall or AV and a popup comes up for a "free" virus scan.....which contains a virus....

I know I ran my pc once with no AV and I got 2 virus' in an hour and no, I didn't immediately jump to a porn site.

 

[Armagettin]

I'm running XP home.
Sympatico dsl. They do have some security features, AV, firewall etc.
Yes, I update patches.
I surf all kinds of nefarious sites.

As for risk, I back up my files, so the only risks I am worried about are banking info and potential virus spread through my email address book.

When I was running Norton, I did have a few hits that I had to deal with. One in particular that altered the registry was a pita. Even if this box gets zapped, I have tons of computer parts to fix it or build another pretty quickly. The performance difference is significant. Increased ram didn't seem to help with Norton. Nor did a better MB or CPU. I think that a year of clean performance is decent reward vs risk. Anymore is bonus.

I have seen the occasional 'free anti-virus' pop up but not on start-up. I click on the 'x' rather than 'no' and eventually get rid of it without any issues. A couple of times I rebooted and it apparently worked.

 

[Armagettin]

I know I ran my pc once with no AV and I got 2 virus' in an hour and no, I didn't immediately jump to a porn site.

How did they manifest? Usually they (virus) don't just show up.

Also, I run Firefox so this might help.

 

[tboy]

Yeah, I've heard that firefox is good at preventing virus' infestation.

As for how they showed up. I really couldn't tell you. This is what happened:

I am with robbers err Rogers. They used Norton AV (yeah it's a resource hog). Well they came out with their own AV and it included cleaning Norton off my system. When it came time to load Rogers AV it would never properly install and start at windows boot.

So I went to Norton and got their free trial for 30 days, did a virus scan, and whoop, there was a trojan. I didn't go to any sites other than POF and Terb, facebook etc. so where it came from? I have no idea.

Like I said: there are virus' out there that as soon as you sign on to the net, they notice it and test your pc to see if they can get in. With no AV they have free access......

 

[Armagettin]

Like I said: there are virus' out there that as soon as you sign on to the net, they notice it and test your pc to see if they can get in. With no AV they have free access......

Yeah, I was always so careful before. The AV from my IP must deter this.

 

[Chillroy]

I surf the web bareback as well. I have the firewall and popup blocker that's pretty much standard but won't buy anti virus. We all know to download and click with caution (not necessarily running away from all .exe's but just consider carefully the source). Moreover the anti virus software is only as good as the date it came out and if you're not subscribed to get updated virus definitions (at additional cost) then it quickly becomes a useless tool. I used to run Mcaffee and found it just made my computer slower. When I decided to get rid of it I had the hardest time removing the software (think I had to resort to a format).

My conclusion: Yes I totally agree with the OP about the hype. Mainly just scares those with little knowledge into buying more and more "protection." Kinda like the fraud prevention options that seem to be popping up everywhere. Two different things I know but both marketed similarly on the Culture of Fear.*

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_fear

 

[tboy]

Well Chill, you are entitled to your opinion but I personally have lost a hard drive to a virus and I worked with someone who got hit with the "I love you" virus. It cost the company $7,000.00 C to retrieve the corrupted data that was on the affected PC and they didn't get it all.

OH just remembered, I also had a family member who had a PC infected with a virus and it trashed her BIOS. I had to reload the bios to get the PC up and running again.

But hey, to each his own. If you want to and can surf safely without an AV app then more power to you...but it isn't just Hype.......

But then I wonder, do you think the poor security software that many retailers use is just hype to? Considering it can be broken with an app readily available via newsgroups and with a wireless laptop you can get 10,000,000 pieces cc information?

 

[Chillroy]

I've never had a computer infection that couldn't be remedied by formatting my computer. I also had a co-worker who was stupid enough to open an attachment in an unsolicited email (obviously he didn't consider the source). I guess your family member was about as tech savvy as that co-worker.

But then I wonder, do you think the poor security software that many retailers use is just hype to? Considering it can be broken with an app readily available via newsgroups and with a wireless laptop you can get 10,000,000 pieces cc information?

Obviously yes, since it doesn't work. Someone like your co-worker/family member must have made the decision to buy that poor security software (I hope they were fired). It's important to distinguish between "off the shelf" anti-virus programs marketed to consumers (like the pre-installed trial versions of McAfee) and the ones that TD or Royal Bank would be using to protect your credit card information. One would think the Big Banks are not using Norton anti-virus, but apps that are custom built by in house programming staff.

 

[thewheelman]

There is a lot more than just viruses out there...

First check your router logs for incoming connections to the same port over and over. If you have these, then most likely your PC called them first, and there is a bot , trojan, backdoor on your PC that virus scanners don't find.

If your router has outgoing connection logs, look for periodic single, ICMP (ping) or http (port 80), packets to unknown IP's.

If your router does not have outgoing logs, use Wireshark to check your actual traffic.

 

[tboy]

I've never had a computer infection that couldn't be remedied by formatting my computer. I also had a co-worker who was stupid enough to open an attachment in an unsolicited email (obviously he didn't consider the source). I guess your family member was about as tech savvy as that co-worker.



Obviously yes, since it doesn't work. Someone like your co-worker/family member must have made the decision to buy that poor security software (I hope they were fired). It's important to distinguish between "off the shelf" anti-virus programs marketed to consumers (like the pre-installed trial versions of McAfee) and the ones that TD or Royal Bank would be using to protect your credit card information. One would think the Big Banks are not using Norton anti-virus, but apps that are custom built by in house programming staff.

Well, the microsoft security app that is used by hundreds of thousands of retailers, Target, Walmart, Winners, Ross, to name a few was still being used this past January. Maybe they've upgraded? Who knows.

As for banks: they may have intrusion protection but that is nul and void when they fax 15,000 mortgage documents to a junk yard in tennesee (I think it was Tenn. and it was CIBC). Not only did they do it, but they did it monthly for over a year even after the only of said fax called them and told them about it.

The problem with the "I love you" virus is that it attached itself to legit emails of infected computers so the attachment was coming from trusted sources. (for the record the co-worker who was infected rec'd it via an email from a TD Bank Employee via their TD bank email address).

 

[Chillroy]

Microsoft produces a mediocre product (at best) and forces it upon the masses. And CIBC's fuckup is nothing compared to Citi Bank's record for compromised accounts. But this is getting way off topic now. The point of this thread is: does every home PC user need to have McAffee/Norton anti-virus running on their system? Probably not. Just as some home PC users prefer to run Linux instead of Windows.

 

[tboy]

Yeah, and there are a ton of free av apps out there that aren't resource hogs. Speaking of Norton though, have you seen their latest ads or heard them on the radio? They even admit that the previous version was a pig........

 

[Chillroy]

Good for them but try and get Microsoft to admit that Windows is a pig. I think they still claim 1/2 gig is all you need ... lawl. Can't wait for "trusted computing" to tell me what I can and can't do with my computer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing

 

[Chillroy]

Craigslist themed spam spreading malware

Email security experts are warning of a newly detected malware threat that uses spam with a Craigslist subject heading as a lure to get recipients to visit a malicious website. Visiting the site could infect PCs with a virus.

Security firm Red Condor said the malware, currently undetected by most virus scanners, is embedded in an email that appears to be a response to an ad on the popular classifieds site Craigslist with the subject line "Re: Car For Sale on craigslist."

The spam email implies that the recipient had requested pictures for a car being sold on Craigslist and directs them to view the images via a link to a Picasa album. Clicking on the link installs a virus, Red Condor said.

Only 13 out of 41 virus scanners detected the file as a virus, said Tom Steding, CEO of Red Condor.

"This means that if the message was delivered and a user clicked on the link, they'd likely be infected even if they had an anti-virus program running on their desktop computer," Steding said.

Craigslist has become a popular target for spam and scams by fraudsters. For example, Nigerian and other email scammers use the site to offer non-existent properties for rent and defraud people by having them wire deposits for the fake properties.

http://www.mxlogic.com/securitynews/email-security/craigslist-themed-spam-spreading-malware555.cfm

 

[basketcase]

... Moreover the anti virus software is only as good as the date it came out and if you're not subscribed to get updated virus definitions (at additional cost) then it quickly becomes a useless tool. ...

If money is your issue, try avast - cost for 1 year subscription = $0. Gets pretty good marks from computer people.

 

[blueman]

If money is your issue, try avast - cost for 1 year subscription = $0. Gets pretty good marks from computer people.

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agreed
I have been happily using avast for about 1 year now

there are several sites where u can obtain AV software for free with crack and serial number