"bitching" about prices....

[tboy]

I was originally going to post this in the forum that was related to a specific sp but that wouldn't be fair to that sp as it would indicate a direct discussion about HER situation.

We as hobbyists have a right by being members of this board, to discuss ANYTHING to do with this industry without worry about being flamed, this goes for prices, service, exclusivity, taste, manner, anything.

Just because you do not agree with someone's post, you too have a right to disagree, but it is extremely poor taste to attack that person directly.

Prices: There are many ways to filter out undesireables and raising one's rates is one of them. There is a flaw to this logic in the sense that only men with money are attractive or "desireable". There are some of us "undesireables" out here who don't make a 6 figure income that are still very tender and caring indiviuals and will treat any woman they are with with respect, dignity, and treat them like a lady. Just remember: money does not an honorable man make!

EE sp's: Recently I had the pleasure of booking an EE escort as I was having trouble getting a booking with some of my first choices. Not only was I very pleasantly surprised and had a wonderful time, but it was one of the best sessions I have ever had. Considering that I could easily afford an evening with her, for the same rate as an hour with someone else, and have an even more wonderful time, why spend the $$ needlessly?

 

[Average Joe]

tboy, you may have opened a can of worms here. Hopefully it won't blow up.

Other than filtering out "undesirables" another reason an escort may want to raise her rates is to reduce the number of men that she has to see in a given week. If she can raise her rates and make the same or more money than it's in her interest to do so. Why would anyone work more hours than they have to? Also, there are a lot of guys that would rather pay a little more to see a girl that is a bit more "exclusive" so to speak.

Obviously there will reach a point that raising her rates will result in fewer clients and potentially less income. This point is going to be different for each escort based on their looks and reputation.

Now of course this sucks for us because as the reputation for an escort improves and she can raise her rates then fewer and fewer of us will be able to afford her time. Luckily not every escort thinks that way.

 

[PencilDick]

Good points Average Joe.

A thing to consider is.....unless the girl is a slave.......she can always bring her hours under control by just restricting the number of calls she'll do per day or restricting her schedule to say 4 days a week from noon to close. So unless slavery is going on, I think in most cases there's something else going on here......

I think the rate raising is more related to greed than anything else and tboy is right on the money that higher rates does not equal a better experience with the guy. In fact, I've heard from several escorts, US and Canadian and UK, who have told me that often the richer guys are the cheapest or more unpleasant during their calls........of course that's another one of those gross generalizations but I've heard it enough to know money does not equal a better experience, but it will certainly cut the escort's number of hours worked.

I remember when Winter went up on Cachet and her hours went down even though she is easily in the top 5 of all time in Toronto.

I think the EEs appreciate that CDN$200 is easily 4x-8x what the average male makes an hour. CDN$300 starts equating with working a couple days work for an hour of uncertain pleasure. Give me a fuckin's break! It's about GREED! Just my two cents.

 

[tboy]

Oh, I am sure there are many more reasons for the way a price schedule is set, I was just addressing some points brought up in other threads. As opposed to discussing them in the thread, where they could be construed as being directed at the sp's being discussed, I decided to discuss them here where it won't be so direct to any one sp.......

To address your point about "working more hours than they have to..." there is a fine line between enough, and not enough, earnings. The more hours one works (hopefully) the higher the return: For eg: if one sets their target earnings at 1000.00 per week, and they charge 500 per hour, they only need to book 2 hrs per week. However, they may find it difficult, or impossible to meet that goal (IMHO they'd have to be one HELL of a good sp to charge that much). Realistically, the market pays what the market can handle: eg: when fuel costs go up, demand goes down, then costs go down. When demand resumes, costs start back up again. Using an SP as an example, if she puts in lots of time and effort to build a client base at 200 per hour, then she has to work 5 hrs a week (not a whole lot IMHO). Once word gets out that she is good/friendly/open minded/pleasing then her prices can start up. However, if she starts out at 5 an hour, and doesn't get any bookings, her prices HAVE to come down to meet the current market scale. Again, if she raises her prices for whatever reason, she runs the risk of losing her clients and alienating many more new and potential clients.

In sales, there is a rule of thumb: to gain 1 sale or 1 new client, you have to make approximately 100 cold calls or field 100 inquiries. It often costs 10 times more to gain a new client than keep an existing one. This applies to all areas where a "sale" is involved.

Personally, (if I were an sp, and if I was I don't think I could get 10 an hour let alone 200! lol) if I was an sp I would get myself 5 or so clients that I really clicked with, do whatever it takes to make sure that they stayed with me, and use that as my cake. Then every once in awhile try new clients to see if I could build up my client base and that would be my icing.

If I wanted to limit my appointments I certainly wouldn't double or triple my advertised rates, I would just accept fewer bookings. The inherent problems with doing that is again, you start to alienate potential clients. Suppose I was a regular with a certain sp and I was used to paying 200 an hour. I go to her site to check her availability and find her rates have doubled. Would I book her thinking that her rates are now 400? Not a chance. Even though she may only be raising the rates for new clients.....

I may be the only one who feels this way but that is what this board is for, discussion of different ideas and opinions....

 

[Average Joe]

One thing that many independent escorts do to not alienate their existing clients as they raise their rates is to maintain their original rates for their existing clients. Some even give a lower rate to regular clients that began seeing them after they raised their rates as an incentive to keep them coming back.

As for the greed, why should they be any different than us. How many of us would turn down a pay raise? How many of us would say to our boss, "No, I'm not worth that much money. You keep it." They just have a bit more control over their "salary" because they're self-employed.

I think that another factor in this is that escorts, like athletes, have a limited career lifespan. I imagine some of them are looking to provide for their future so that when they eventually retire they can retire not only from the business but also any kind of work. If I could I know I would.

In the end, I feel that escorts are allowed to charge what they feel they are worth and to accomplish whatever goals they have. We are of course free to spend our money the way we want. There will always be escorts from the low end to the high end of the price scale and there will always be men to keep them busy. It's not the oldest profession for nothing.

 

[midLifeCrisis]

If I wanted to limit my appointments I certainly wouldn't double or triple my advertised rates, I would just accept fewer bookings.

Is this the way you make your decisions now about your own work? If another employer, identical in all respects to your current one, offers you a 50% raise for doing the same job, do you turn them down? Or if this other company offers you the same pay for a three-day week, do you tell them you don't want to alienate your current employer?

Or if you're a professional and you've got new clients breaking down your door, do you stick to the same rates you set when you were just starting out? And make all these new clients take a number? And when a new potential client says 'Move me to the front of the line and I'll pay a double rate', do you just tell him that that's not fair to the ones who've been waiting?

If a girl wants to raise her rates so that she can either work less or make more or any combination thereof, I say 'Good for her'. Maybe not so good for me, but good for her. Nobody's forcing me to see her at the new rates, or has given me the entitlement to her service at the price of my choosing.

 

[tboy]

hey Mid, you've made some valid points but there is a very distinct difference between an employee/employer and clients.

As for your pricing comparison, here's an actual screnario for you:

Client 1: been with the company for over 10 yrs, for a total sales of over 10 million cdn. With an average gross margin of 50% that means my gross profit is about $250,000.00.

Client 2: Been with the company for 1 yr. with total sales of $100.000.00 with a gross margin of 100% which equates to a profit of about $50,000.00. They only did 1 project with us and are now gone.

Which client would YOU want?

Please Note: It cost about $9000.00 to get client 2, NOTHING to keep client 1......(btw, that 9K is advertising, cold calling, estimation, meetings, more meetings, lunches, perks, blah blah blah)

You can make the argument that I could also get 5 clients like #2 to make up for the losses incurred from losing client 1. But you have to also consider that to get 5 more clients I have to spend 5 x 9K = 45K which will bring my profits down to $200K (which STILL leaves me short).

Apply the same to any sales oriented industry and you will find the same results.......

If I blew off client 1 to give priority to client 2, I'd be out about $100,000.00 (due to lost revenue) and any future earnings due to them leaving (because I blew them off for client 2).

 

[moomoo]

I don't think the employee/employer theory really apply in this discussion. Yes, we are not going to turn down the pay raise offer from our boss, it just like the escort would not refuse a $200 tip from us because the the good services she provided. The picture is going to be different if we go to our boss and said;"since I am doing such a good job for the money, I would like to increase my hourly rate from , let say, $20 an hour to $40 an hour". Honestly, gentlemen, what do you think your boss will say to you?

 

[RogerRabbit]

greed...

Good points Average Joe.

A thing to consider is.....unless the girl is a slave.......

It's about GREED! Just my two cents.

speaking of which in todays toronto star:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...8&call_pageid=1038394944805&col=1038394944443

 

[Ashton]

generalizations!.....

Unless you see the $300-$1000 ladies, I don't think you can pass any sort of judgement! -- you don't know what it is like to be with them!! -- I have clients that have requested a one hour visit and we have had such a great time, 2 hrs+ go by, and I do not charge them for the extra time, also I have clients that always want to have a meal together, likewise they are good clients and I do not charge them for meal time!....so I think that it is unfair to generalize rates/situations like this!....Quality and friendship is most important to some SP's that QUANTITY! -- something to consider!

 

[Average Joe]

moomoo, I agree that the employee/employer analogy doesn't really apply. To an escort each client is an employer so she doesn't have just one employer and it is very easy to replace one employer with another.

I think a better analogy is a restaurant as it is also a service business that has a constantly changing clientele. When a restaurant first opens it sets its prices to attract the clientele it is interested in attracting. A hamburger joint will keep it's prices low and rely on volume to make a resonable profit. A mid-scale restaurant will charge a bit more but will still provide value. A high-end restaurant will charge the most but give the patrons an experience they could not get at the other restaurants.

Now if a restaurant becomes so popular there is a long lineup or huge waiting lists to get in then they have a number of choices. 1) Hire extra staff to manage the linup and waiting list, 2) Raise prices to reduce the number of people willing to line up or go on a waiting list or, 3) Open a new location.

As an escort becomes more popular she will receive a lot of additional callls and emails which she must handle on her own time with no compensation thus leaving her less time to spend with clients. Assuming we are talking about an independent escort she certainly can not hire extra staff to handle the calls. This would require her to work longer hours to cover this additional overhead. Opening a new location is also not an option either unless we allow human cloning.

The only option left open to her is to raise prices. Now I'm not talking about doubling or tripling rates. I'm talking about $25-$50/hour incremental increases. This allows her to choose the point where the calls decrease to a managable level but she has enough regular and new business to cover whatever financial goal she has.

Sure she will lose some clients but like a restaurant there will always be more clients to take their place. If the majority of the guys out there don't think she's worth the additional cost then she'll find out pretty fast when she loses too many existing clients and stops getting new clients and then she'll be forced to drop her prices or improve her service.

This is basic economics. In a free market, price will always find it's own equilibrium.

 

[danmand]

I think the point that many of us are trying to make is: where is the value you get from $300 or $350 SP's.
I have no problem paying $300, $400 or whatever, if it seems worth it to me. However, I did not inherit a lot of money, and even if I have a full wallet, I expect to get value.
Personally, I have found that some of the higher priced SP's are so full of themselves, and have so many restrictions, that they are much less enjoyable than the $220 ones.

 

[PencilDick]

Of course an escort should be free to charge whatever they want. My only point is the price increases are less about wanting to cut hours and other BS, and more about basic GREED. The problem with the GREED is it will turn a lot of clients away from future business....but again, if that's what an escort wants, so be it.

 

[Average Joe]

Even if it is about greed, which I don't believe is the only reason, why is that a surprise? Escorts are not in this business as a public service they're in it to make money. So why shouldn't they charge as much as people are willing to pay?

Some people call it greed, I call it good business sense.

 

[xarir]

... if I was an sp I would get myself 5 or so clients that I really clicked with, do whatever it takes to make sure that they stayed with me, and use that as my cake. Then every once in awhile try new clients to see if I could build up my client base and that would be my icing.

I think that only works up to a point. We all know that SPs come & go. It's fair to assume that clients come & go too.

 

[scubadoo]

Re: Pricing

However having said that, there seems to be a trend for price inflation at an huge level industry wide.

Are you saying that you feel it is possible that some in the sp industry in Toronto could be in a price-fixing scam? Somewhat what we find at the gas pump when every gas station happens to raise the price per litre by 10 cents to the same price.

 

[gala]

These girls charge whatever they CAN.

You wanna know why rates are going up? Because Canada tightened up its immigration policies a LOT in the last year. Tighter immigration means fewer eastern europe and asian student girls are getting in to Canada, so the supply of fresh young escorts is starting to shrink a little.

Law of supply and demand. You wanna lower the rates? Stop paying for the higher rates (reduce demand) and rates will come down. Last I checked calling an escort was a luxury, you can cut it out if you think it's too much $$$

 

[gala]

... or call your MP and say you think Canada should loosen up its immigration policy, back like it was two years ago.... then there's be a fresh wave of young hotties who faked on their visa application that they actually had enough money to pay for school.... and prices would come down

 

[scubadoo]

... or call your MP and say you think Canada should loosen up its immigration policy, back like it was two years ago....

Or go to Montreal!!!!

 

[gala]

it's not a joke though, the immigration thing is a big effect, a lot of the ESL schools are hurting these days because foreign students can't get visas... alot of those EE and asian escorts come here on student visas and ride the meat to pay their tuition... since the govt. started to check carefully that visa applicants really have the money in the bank and really go to all their classes there have been a LOT less foreign students coming here.. some of those private ESL schools apparently are gonna go bust if things don't change... meanwhile it's drying up the supply of fresh new escorts...