Bradley Manning - Decision

[Aardvark154]

UCMJ Article 104 – Aiding the Enemy

Not Guilty (the Prosecution wasn't able to prove that he knew the information would end up in enemy hands – although it certainly was commonsensical)

(life without parole)

UCMJ Article 134 – Violations of the Espionage act – eight specifications

Guilty on seven specifications

(up to ten years on each specification)

UCMJ Article 134 – Stealing Government Property - five specifiscations

Guilty on all specifications

(up to ten years on each specification)

UCMJ Article 134 – Wanton Publication of Intelligence on the Internet - One specification Publication of Intelligence

Guilty

(up to two years)

UCMJ Article 134 – Computer Fraud and Abuse Act - two specifications

Guilty of both specifications

(up to ten years on each specification)

UCMJ Article 92 Failure to Obey a Lawful Order or Regulation – five specifications

Guilty of all five specifications

(up to two years on each specification)


22 specifications - not guilty two specifications, guilty 20 specifications.

Sentencing proceedings to begin tomorrow. Possibility of 152 years of confinement, loss of rank and all pay and privileges and dishonourable discharge.

 

[CapitalGuy]

Sentencing a gay guy to 152 years in prison is like sentencing a Terbite to 152 years at Club Hedonism. Without the beach, mind you....

 

[fuji]

This is how the United States treats its heroes.

 

[Aardvark154]

This is how the United States treats its heroes.

Hero my ass!

If you wish we can discuss plenty of heroes people who were awarded the highest of decorations having grown up in circumstances far harder than Prisoner Manning's, likewise those who scared to death, yet returned to combat.

 

[fuji]

Hero: Someone who performs notable acts at great personal sacrifices for the benefit of others.

 

[rld]

Hero: Someone who performs notable acts at great personal sacrifices for the benefit of others.

This gent is just another thieving coward, about to get some serious medicine served. But I suspect you don't like his long string of guilty pleas either.

I wonder how long his sentence will be.

 

[fuji]

This gent is just another thieving coward, about to get some serious medicine served. But I suspect you don't like his long string of guilty pleas either.

I wonder how long his sentence will be.

I don't like that law. I am sure that as it is written he is guilty. It is a political problem, that law needs to be updated.

Whether you agree it not yet and get your mind around the concept that some laws are wrong and need updating.

 

[gryfin]

Hero: Someone who performs notable acts at great personal sacrifices for the benefit of others.

Like Mordechai Vanunu.

 

[Aardvark154]

I wonder how long his sentence will be.

If he gets even half the sentence he might, the odds are quite high that he will be going into the prison cemetery.

 

[Aardvark154]

I don't like that law.

Oh the horror.

 

[Aardvark154]

Like Mordechai Vanunu.

One would think that you would hate an Israeli spy.

What's going on Gryfin, you hate the U.S.A. even more than you hate Israel? Does the U.S. Bureau of Customs and Border Protection know this?

 

[groggy]

This gent is just another thieving coward, about to get some serious medicine served. But I suspect you don't like his long string of guilty pleas either.

I wonder how long his sentence will be.

You, among people here, should understand after the Nuremberg trials that following orders if you believe they are illegal is not an excuse, that if Manning found the country acting illegally he was morally bound to expose it.

 

[Aardvark154]

You, among people here, should understand after the Nuremberg trials that following orders if you believe they are illegal is not an excuse, that if Manning found the country acting illegally he was morally bound to expose it.

However, if the orders are legal then you are fully exposed to whatever punishment the law of the state you are serving allows.

Hence, in plain English you had better be damn sure that the orders are illegal. In the real world 99.01 percent of the time they are legal.


This is not even to touch upon what a very bad example the Nuremberg trials, have turned out to be.

 

[onthebottom]

He won't be seeing the light of day for a long time, wonder how Mr. Wikileaks/rapist is enjoying his accommodations or Mr. douchbag and his Moscow digs....

OTB

 

[groggy]

However, if the orders are legal then you are fully exposed to whatever punishment the law of the state you are serving allows.

Hence, in plain English you had better be damn sure that the orders are illegal. In the real world 99.01 percent of the time they are legal.


This is not even to touch upon what a very bad example the Nuremberg trials, have turned out to be.

So you think that all soldiers have a duty to follow all orders, then?
Interesting.

And lets start with one crime, and its a doozy that Manning and wikileaks revealed.
Manning released the papers that showed that the Iraq war was a war crime.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-glaser/bradley-manning-revealed-_b_3678734.html

 

[fuji]

Oh the horror.

There are quite a few moral travesties in the world, this is just one of many. Apparently you have lost your moral compass and can no longer tell right from wrong.

In several backwards country there are women who have been prosecuted for sex outside of marriage because they were raped -- in those countries, that is "legal" and those women are "guilty". But it's bad law, a moral travesty. This law is just such a moral travesty -- prosecuting someone for blowing the whistle on wrongdoing is not much better than prosecuting a rape victim for sex outside of marriage. Different acts. Same moral problem.

You lack adequate whistle blower protection in most of your national security laws, and as a result, those laws are used against people who in reality are serving the highest interests of your nation by communicating to their fellow citizens about horrendous wrongdoing.

Bradley Manning has effectively sacrificed his life for the good of his country. There is no higher honour than that. He's a hero.

 

[danmand]

Martin Luther King: "Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal"

 

[rld]

You, among people here, should understand after the Nuremberg trials that following orders if you believe they are illegal is not an excuse, that if Manning found the country acting illegally he was morally bound to expose it.

Actually that rule goes back long before Nuremberg.

But any ways the two things don't connect the way you want them to.

The fact that the "following orders" defense is not valid for war crimes, does not lead one to an obligation to reveal state secrets.

Dude was just a mentally ill attention seeker and he is about to pay the piper.

 

[rld]

There are quite a few moral travesties in the world, this is just one of many. Apparently you have lost your moral compass and can no longer tell right from wrong.

In several backwards country there are women who have been prosecuted for sex outside of marriage because they were raped -- in those countries, that is "legal" and those women are "guilty". But it's bad law, a moral travesty. This law is just such a moral travesty -- prosecuting someone for blowing the whistle on wrongdoing is not much better than prosecuting a rape victim for sex outside of marriage. Different acts. Same moral problem.

You lack adequate whistle blower protection in most of your national security laws, and as a result, those laws are used against people who in reality are serving the highest interests of your nation by communicating to their fellow citizens about horrendous wrongdoing.

Bradley Manning has effectively sacrificed his life for the good of his country. There is no higher honour than that. He's a hero.

Feel free to send him hero cakes in prison. I am sure he will be comforted by your anti-american based adoration.

 

[guelph]

This gent is just another thieving coward, about to get some serious medicine served. But I suspect you don't like his long string of guilty pleas either.

I wonder how long his sentence will be.

I seem to remember that when Bush and Cheny outed a CIA agent for political reasons they weren't punished