Bush

[screwge]

As a Canadian, I would like to know from our US terbites what it is that would justify a vote for Bush. From here, it seems that he is grossly incompetent, particularly in the area he claims to be much better than Kerry – the war against terrorism.

We just found out that while US troops were defending the Oil Ministry, the ammunition dumps were being plundered of explosives, perhaps to use against US troops. Today, it is revealed that Halliburton was given preferential treatment in awarding contracts in Iraq. There were no WMD, there was no link to bin Laden. Bin Laden is still free. More and more US troops are dying in Iraq. Bush has alienated most of the world by his cowboy rush into Iraq without a plan (other than generalities) to leave it in better condition than when they invaded. Friedman in the NY Times notes that the US is fast making a generation of arabs and muslims anti-US because it abandoned its facilitation role to jump completely on-side with Sharon. Incompetence and corruption are the hall mark of the US activities in Iraq. If Kerry is worse, then you folks…and the rest of us…are in big trouble.

If I am missing something, please let me know.

 

[onthebottom]

Congratulations on your 6th post.

Please read all of my posts over the last 2 years and if you have any more questions please PM me.

OTB

 

[zydeco]

OTB - It might be easier if you just publish a book!

 

[Drunken Master]

Good God, man, did you really need a separate thread for this?

This is why Goober is going mad!

Oh, and, don't believe OTB. As a moderate Republican he'll have a sudden attack of conscience in the booth and vote Kerry - or Nader.

 

[danmand]

Congratulations on your 6th post.
Please read all of my posts over the last 2 years and if you have any more questions please PM me.
OTB

As if the number of posts on Terb was a measure of wisdom!!!!!

 

[onthebottom]

OTB - It might be easier if you just publish a book!

LOL

Bottom on Bottom - anyone want to publish this? It would need some serious spell checking (no bbking you would not be qualified for this), fact checking (I say let The Shake do it) and if Peckr agreed with anything in it I'd delete it because I obviously would have made a mistake.

Naw, stupid idea.

OTB

 

[onthebottom]

As if the number of posts on Terb was a measure of wisdom!!!!!

I've never said that - have you seen how many posts Goober has......

OTB

 

[The Shake]

As a Canadian, I would like to know from our US terbites what it is that would justify a vote for Bush. From here, it seems that he is grossly incompetent, particularly in the area he claims to be much better than Kerry – the war against terrorism.

I'm sure that they'll glad do so...once we've explained that whole three straight Chretien majority governments thing to them.

 

[screwge]

thanks OTB. I have spent the last little while looking for your previous comments. I found several, but they didn't really address the question I posed. Why do 50% of Americans support Bush. Its not a trick question, or meant to inflame, I'd really like to know. The answer is not obvious, so I was hoping someone could state the positive case (as opposed to he's better than Kerry, although I acknowledge this is a valid response). If 50% support him so vehemently, he must have strong points. I don't see them from this perspective, so I'm hoping to be educated. Thanks to those who reply.

 

[papasmerf]

It's simple

I would like the country to survie as a free democratic society.

 

[The Shake]

It's simple

I would like the country to survie as a free democratic society.

That's a silly statement even for you, papa.

 

[onthebottom]

thanks OTB. I have spent the last little while looking for your previous comments. I found several, but they didn't really address the question I posed. Why do 50% of Americans support Bush. Its not a trick question, or meant to inflame, I'd really like to know. The answer is not obvious, so I was hoping someone could state the positive case (as opposed to he's better than Kerry, although I acknowledge this is a valid response). If 50% support him so vehemently, he must have strong points. I don't see them from this perspective, so I'm hoping to be educated. Thanks to those who reply.

You are right in that there are two answers to this question, why do you like the POTUS and why do you prefer the POTUS to Kerry (the second allows you to consider Kerry negatives - don't out swim the shark just the other guy in the water logic).

Bush supporters are very firm in their support (I just wish there were 10% more of them). For me it comes down to a few things:

I'm generally in favor of his domestic agenda, No Child Left Behind and the Guest Worker programs are EXACTLY what I'd do if the country came to its senses and elected me King. I'm a Reagan Republican that believes in a smaller government that should only invest in certain areas (defense, justice, education...). Bush has actually spent more money than I'm comfortable with. I'm a big fan of his cutting ALL tax rates and increasing the child tax credit. I believe you grow your way out of deficits not tax your way out. Agree or not, these are my reasons.

Now, the big issues of Terrorism and Iraq. And no, I don't link them (note plural). I'm a fan of the Patriot Act, I think we need to use our intelligence and law enforcement capabilities better - having a "Wall" between them is insane. I think the FBI should (with a court order) be able to tap all my phones, not just a single one that they get the order for (if I'm a target of an investigation). I believe AQ is a bigger threat to our country that the FBI, but then I live a pretty clean life ;-)

I thought the invasion of Afghanistan was justified, and with elections recently, has put the country and our security in better shape. Its been reported that we've captured or killed 75% of AQ - not a bad start. While we all know that Karl Rove will drop OBL into the waiting hands of the 101 Airborne in the next week, even if that doesn't happen it will have been a successful campaign so far against AQ.

Iraq is an issue that many disagree with me on, but here is my view. I thought Iraq had WMD, more importantly (given I don't get National Security Briefings - something else we should fix) I believe the POTUS believed it as well. He was wrong - along with everyone else (Kerry, Clinton, Blair - name someone and they were wrong except for Blix). My view is he went for a valid reason and it turned out to be wrong (reading that sentence again I've opened myself up to Peckr and other fools but I'll leave it to them to play with). What can we do from here, finish the job, was it worth it, I would say (and many would again disagree) absolutely - the Iraqi people are better off, the world is better off and tens of thousands of kids aren't dieing every year due to sanctions but we've lost 1k troops - a hard trade but not a bad one.

Now the second question, Bush vs Kerry:

This is a really easy one, Bush knows what he thinks (but has a hard time saying it) and Kerry doesn't (but sounds good telling you what you want to hear). An easy decision for me. Some examples:

Kerry voted against the Iraq war in 1991, then admonished Bush 1 for not going all the way to Baghdad (even though he didn't have the "global test" on his side to do that). He simply doesn't stick with anything, classic slimy Democrat in that he plays the race card (we'll get your votes counted), class card (I drive an SUV, oops I don't, ah, my wife owns them), the envy card (the middle class bla bla bla), the scare card (social security bla bla bal).

He's spent more time talking about his service in Vietnam than he spent there or talking about his 20 years in the Senate (where he accomplished nothing).

At lead Howard Dean believed something and you knew where he stood.

Did I answer your question?

OTB

 

[Ickabod]

Its been reported that we've captured or killed 75% of AQ - not a bad start.
OTB

LOL. This is what the entire Bush administration boils down to. Condi Rice was asked about this 75% claim. She was asked 75% of what original number and her answer was we don't know. "Tens, maybe even hundreds" was how she worded it. So if you have no clue as to whether it's tens or hundreds, then how the freak are you supposed to know you've captured or killed 75% of 'em?

These people talk out of their ever loving arses, and the people like OTB just eat the sh*t up.

I also noticed you touched on Bush cutting taxes. That's all anyone needs to know about your vote OTB.

Edited to include the addendum that the 75% claim actually refers to the Al Qaida leadership. Not Al Qaida itself.

 

[onthebottom]

Edited to include the addendum that the 75% claim actually refers to the Al Qaida leadership. Not Al Qaida itself.

What's that exactly?

OTB

 

[langeweile]

To answer your question I would like to stay away from personalities, because neither Bush or Kerry are very good representatives of their presumptive ideologies.

The question for me is this:
Do I believe that a goverment should make certain choices for me? or do I believe that people in general are smart enough to make their own choices?
I believe that most people know whats good for them, better than any goverment does.

Iin general Republicans believe in less goverment, while Democrats believe that goverment should manage peoples lives, from craddle to grave.Those two are fundamentally different approaches.

While neither Kerry or Bush are great choices, the Republicans in general are more in line with my philosophies.
It looks like a very broad answer, but if you apply the logic to the current issues, you can see were most of the dispute comes from.


On a slightly different subject.
A couple of nights ago I watched an interview on CNBC, with an author (I can't remember the name), that wrote a book called the "European Dream". While the books was mostly on buiness relationships across the ocean, he said something very interesting.
In his opinion both sides (Europeans (he included Canada) and Americans) need to learn two major differences of each other. Europeans in general have a much more communal approach to society, while Americans have more of an individualistic approach to society. Meaning that Eurpeans believe, that society as a whole has a much larger responsibility to the individual. While Americans still have the pioneer like, take care of yourself attitude.
I thought it was interesting, because it shed light on some of the fundamental differences in thinking on both sides of the ocean.It also explained some of the differences between Canada and the USA, since Canada is a lot closer to Europe in ideology.

 

[screwge]

Thanks OTB for taking the time to respond. Essentially, what you are saying when the anti-Kerry stuff is taken out, it seems, is that Bush supporters want less government whereas you say Kerry wants more. I’m not going to comment because I wouldn’t want you guys trying to influence our elections. But it is good that we can exchange information to improve understanding. Thanks

By the way, what is POTUS?

 

[onthebottom]

Thanks OTB for taking the time to respond. Essentially, what you are saying when the anti-Kerry stuff is taken out, it seems, is that Bush supporters want less government whereas you say Kerry wants more. I’m not going to comment because I wouldn’t want you guys trying to influence our elections. But it is good that we can exchange information to improve understanding. Thanks

By the way, what is POTUS?

President of the United States.

OTB

 

[Ickabod]

What's that exactly?

OTB

I edited my post after the fact to include that statement but for some reason it didn't show "Edited by me etc etc etc" at the bottom like edited posts normally do. And i just wanted to be clear on what editing had taken place. That's all.

 

[Ickabod]

The question for me is this:
Do I believe that a goverment should make certain choices for me? or do I believe that people in general are smart enough to make their own choices?
I believe that most people know whats good for them, better than any goverment does.

Clue me in on some of the choices that Government- or liberals - desire to take out of your hands that you have a problem with.

 

[Peace4u]

God told me to vote for Kerry.