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Car tire question.

verbalks

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I put some different tires on my car's 15'' rims they are slightly bigger (taller) then the previous tires. I will post the tire numbers later but they are slight bigger around then previous tires.

Anyway, the tires are on the front of the car and the car is front wheel drive. What will this do to my speedometer reading?

My thought is that the bigger tire would spin a slower speed then the smaller tire and the speedometer would be reading higher then my actual speed.

Any info would be helpful.
 

shakenbake

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verbalks said:
I put some different tires on my car's 15'' rims they are slightly bigger (taller) then the previous tires. I will post the tire numbers later but they are slight bigger around then previous tires.

Anyway, the tires are on the front of the car and the car is front wheel drive. What will this do to my speedometer reading?

My thought is that the bigger tire would spin a slower speed then the smaller tire and the speedometer would be reading higher then my actual speed.

Any info would be helpful.
Bigger diameter will cause your speedometer to read lower (watch out for those speed traps) and your odometer to read lower distances. I had 60 series tires on a car that needed 50 series, and the difference was about 10 to 15 % error (lower speed and odometer readings). It may also affect your actual fuel consumption and performance. It might make it worse, even though your 'gears' are a bit higher, making your engine work harder.
 

buttercup

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Feb 28, 2005
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I hope these weren't new tires. You should always put your (pair of) new tires on the back, not on the front!

New tires go on the back, whether it's front or rear wheel (or 4-wheel) drive.

Here's why. Not having enough traction during acceleration, on a front-wheel-drive car, is a very minor worry. The major worry is making sure you don't skid during braking, especially on wet roads. If any of your tires are going to lock, and skid, you'd better hope it will be your fronts. If your rears lock first, under braking, you are heading for an uncontrolled spin, and a trip to the hospital. There is no situation or circumstance, in any type of vehicle, where you want the rears to lock first. So, put your good new tires on the back wheels.

And another thing, while on the subject - never do such a senslessly-dangerous thing as "rotate the tires" - you know, left front to right rear, or some other formula. On most cars, the fronts wear out first. If the steering is properly adjusted and tires are properly installed and balanced, they should wear equally, as a pair. But even if they don't wear equally, always replace them as an axle-pair. And put the good new tires on the back wheels. Tires get "bedded in" to their particular corner of the car; if you move the tire to another corner, its contact patch is now not in the optimum position. Until the tires can get bedded in to their new corners, this throws the balance of the tires off, especially under braking. So, if you have a braking emergency during that first month after rotating the tires, your chances of skidding and spinning go way up, and off to hosp you go.

Also, when you change tires summer to winter, make sure the tires go back on the same corner.

Leave all the tires where they are until they wear out. Then buy one pair of new ones, and put them on the back wheels.
 

Moraff

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buttercup said:
I hope these weren't new tires. You should always put your (pair of) new tires on the back, not on the front!

New tires go on the back, whether it's front or rear wheel (or 4-wheel) drive.

Here's why. Not having enough traction during acceleration, on a front-wheel-drive car, is a very minor worry. The major worry is making sure you don't skid during braking, especially on wet roads. If any of your tires are going to lock, and skid, you'd better hope it will be your fronts. If your rears lock first, under braking, you are heading for an uncontrolled spin, and a trip to the hospital. There is no situation or circumstance, in any type of vehicle, where you want the rears to lock first. So, put your good new tires on the back wheels.

And another thing, while on the subject - never do such a senslessly-dangerous thing as "rotate the tires" -
If your tires are worn to the point where changing one pair would make such a huge difference in your braking ability I would think any intelligent driver would be changing both sets....

As for rotating your tires you are the first person I have ever met who called this a dangerous practice....

Here's the info right from Goodyear tires (who I would imagine know a little bit on the subject :) )

"Should I rotate my tires?

Regular and proper tire rotation promotes more uniform wear for all of the tires on a vehicle. All season tires should be rotated in a "modified X" pattern, meaning only the tires being moved to the drive axle are crossed to the opposite side of the vehicle.

The remaining two tires are moved from the drive axle to the free rolling axle, remaining on the same side of the vehicle. This method of rotation helps promote a more even and uniform treadwear pattern for all four tires.

The only exception to this would be the use of "directional" tread design tires such as our Aquatred II or some of our Eagle line high performance tires. These tires would remain on the same side of the vehicle and be rotated straight forward and straight back.

If you have a four-wheel drive vehicle, we recommend crossing both pairs of tires to their new axle positions.We recommend tire rotation at least every 6,000 miles. Four-wheel drive vehicles may require rotation even sooner such as every 4,000 miles. Check your vehicle owner's manual for the manufacturer's rotation recommendations. If no rotation period is specified, tires should be rotated every 6,000 to 8,000 miles. The first rotation is the most important. When tires are rotated, inflation pressures must be adjusted to the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations. Uneven tire wear may also be due to misalignment or mechanical problems. Many Goodyear retailers can provide expert diagnosis and repair.
"


buttercup said:
Leave all the tires where they are until they wear out. Then buy one pair of new ones, and put them on the back wheels.
This is bad advice IMO... if you have run your tires until they are "worn out" you need to buy ALL new ones, not just one pair. Your vehicle requires good support and performance from ALL corners to perform properly, not just 2.

And just my mechanic's two cents worth... he says he'd put the new tires on the front if you were to do only two of them (which he disagrees with for the reason I stated) as while it is true you wouldn't want the back end to break away in a stop... not being able to steer is probably going to me much more of an issue.
 

Never Compromised

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Feb 1, 2006
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buttercup said:
I hope these weren't new tires. You should always put your (pair of) new tires on the back, not on the front!

New tires go on the back, whether it's front or rear wheel (or 4-wheel) drive.

Here's why. Not having enough traction during acceleration, on a front-wheel-drive car, is a very minor worry. The major worry is making sure you don't skid during braking, especially on wet roads. If any of your tires are going to lock, and skid, you'd better hope it will be your fronts. If your rears lock first, under braking, you are heading for an uncontrolled spin, and a trip to the hospital. There is no situation or circumstance, in any type of vehicle, where you want the rears to lock first. So, put your good new tires on the back wheels.

And another thing, while on the subject - never do such a senslessly-dangerous thing as "rotate the tires" - you know, left front to right rear, or some other formula. On most cars, the fronts wear out first. If the steering is properly adjusted and tires are properly installed and balanced, they should wear equally, as a pair. But even if they don't wear equally, always replace them as an axle-pair. And put the good new tires on the back wheels. Tires get "bedded in" to their particular corner of the car; if you move the tire to another corner, its contact patch is now not in the optimum position. Until the tires can get bedded in to their new corners, this throws the balance of the tires off, especially under braking. So, if you have a braking emergency during that first month after rotating the tires, your chances of skidding and spinning go way up, and off to hosp you go.

Also, when you change tires summer to winter, make sure the tires go back on the same corner.

Leave all the tires where they are until they wear out. Then buy one pair of new ones, and put them on the back wheels.
Funny, but I trust my mechanic far more than you, and he suggests regular rotation and I agree with him to replace tires as a full set of 4. If you are going to cheap out, he always puts the new tires on the front.

Your advice seems totally off the mark.
 

cali

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verbalks said:
I put some different tires on my car's 15'' rims they are slightly bigger (taller) then the previous tires. I will post the tire numbers later but they are slight bigger around then previous tires.

Anyway, the tires are on the front of the car and the car is front wheel drive. What will this do to my speedometer reading?

My thought is that the bigger tire would spin a slower speed then the smaller tire and the speedometer would be reading higher then my actual speed.

Any info would be helpful.

Try this calculator

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
 

buttercup

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Feb 28, 2005
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Moraff . . . And just my mechanic's two cents worth... he says he'd put the new tires on the front if you were to do only two of them (which he disagrees with for the reason I stated) as while it is true you wouldn't want the back end to break away in a stop... not being able to steer is probably going to me much more of an issue.

Compromised . . . my mechanic . . . suggests regular rotation and I agree with him to replace tires as a full set of 4. If you are going to cheap out, he always puts the new tires on the front.


These mechanics should be struck off! Their advice (to put the new tires on the front) can kill you! They should stick to their trade, and not try to pretend to be theoretical engineers.

But surely it stands to reason, doesn’t it, that your best chance of retaining steering control is to keep the front wheels from locking, and the best chance of achieving that is to put the new tires on the front? Wrong.

Go to www.michelinman.com/tire-care/tire-basics/ Click on “Where should you put two new tires?”, and watch the video.

Here’s the engineering answer. Imagine you are going round a corner on a wet road, when some emergency arises, and you apply the brakes too heavily. Take the two cases: (a) your rear wheels lock and skid, and (b) your front wheels lock and skid.

In (a), the front wheels are still rolling, and are still exerting good braking force (from the front of the car), and are still capable of influencing steering direction. The back wheels have stopped rolling, and are skidding, and are therefore exerting only a much reduced degree of retardation and, zero directional control. So now, there is a very large tendency for the back end of the car to swing outwards, on the bend, and to overtake the front of the car. Once it starts, the tendency snowballs. It’s like trying to balance a pencil on its point. You completely lose control of both retardation and direction.

In (b), the back wheels are still rolling, and are still exerting good braking force, and are still capable of influencing steering direction. The front wheels have stopped rolling, and are skidding, and are therefore exerting only a much reduced degree of retardation, and zero directionality. So now, the main directionality and retardation forces (such as they are) are coming from the back of the car, not the front. So the car remains stable, and tends to carry on along a straight line path, but still pointing forwards. Not good of course – but it’s a lifetime better than spinning.

Will your anti-skid system save you? Maybe. But the a-s system is set up primarily to deal with wheel lock under heavy braking, and the system does not work so well under light braking – and light braking is all you get on a wet road. In fact, the more slippery the road, the less effective your anti-skid system is, to prevent the wheels from locking.

The moral is quite clear: Never drive your car so that the wheels lock! But if your wheels do lock, under braking, your chance of losing control and hitting someone is much worse when the wheels that lock are the rear wheels. And you can do something to make sure the fronts lock first – put your new tires on the back!
 

Moraff

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buttercup said:
These mechanics should be struck off! Their advice (to put the new tires on the front) can kill you! They should stick to their trade, and not try to pretend to be theoretical engineers.
Having looked at your link and done some more research on it I freely admit that I and my mechanic were wrong. If you are buying only 2 new tires (good thing I've always bought 4) then they should be placed on the rear axle.

Thanks... I've forwarded that info to my mechanic as well.

HOWEVER... all those sites also recommend regular tire rotation instead of your advice to leave them where they are until they wear out.
 

buttercup

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Moraff HOWEVER... all those sites also recommend regular tire rotation instead of your advice to leave them where they are until they wear out.

Re tire rotation, you might try googling the question, “Is it only BMW that does not recommend tire rotation?” And educate yourself by following some of the links there.

The usual reason put forward for tire rotation is “to even out the wear”. The car and tire companies go along with it because American motorists ask for it. But the general consensus about tire rotation, the world over, is that there’s about as much point to it as there is to changing your shoes, right to left, “to even out the wear.”

And there are some dangers that can or might arise from rotating the tires.

1. Rotating the tires might mask a problem of uneven wear arising from incorrect steering alignment or wheel geometry.

2. For a few weeks after rotation, your tires are bedding themselves into their new corners, and the contact patches might be misplaced. And the amount of misplacement is different, wheel to wheel. So, if you make a heavy stop, on a wet road, during this period, the chances of loss of control are increased. (Of course, you could drive, all the time, so that you don’t ever need to make heavy stops, especially on wet roads. Or maybe you could avoid going out in the rain for the month after you’ve rotated the tires. Or, better still - don’t rotate your tires.)

3. Rotation makes your tires wear out faster. Why? The old contact patch, which was created by being bedded into the left front corner, might, when the tire is moved to e.g. the right rear corner, engage the road more lightly on its left side, say, than on its right side. Not only does this affect the safe balance of forces on the wheel, but the heavily-touching area will more rapidly wear away (over a period of a few weeks) until the new contact patch has become established. Only then will the wear rate resume its normal slower rate.


Maybe one benefit you can attribute to tire rotation is this – that at least, when people replace all four tires, rather than just one pair, the cowboy mechanics won’t end up putting the part-worn ones on the back!
 

Moraff

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buttercup said:
Re tire rotation, you might try googling the question, “Is it only BMW that does not recommend tire rotation?” And educate yourself by following some of the links there.
No, I have done my research on that while I was learning why I was incorrect on the 2 new tire placement part of our discussion.

The manufacturers of both my car and my tires recommends regular rotation. Other manufacturers that I have checked (with the exception of BMW) also recommend it.

That's good enough for me.
 

shakenbake

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Moraff said:
Having looked at your link and done some more research on it I freely admit that I and my mechanic were wrong. If you are buying only 2 new tires (good thing I've always bought 4) then they should be placed on the rear axle.

Thanks... I've forwarded that info to my mechanic as well.

HOWEVER... all those sites also recommend regular tire rotation instead of your advice to leave them where they are until they wear out.
I am told that California Law states that new tires be placed on the front axle. So, let's sue the Governator.

Actually putting new ones on the front is not dumb if you can't afford all new ones. 60% of you braking and steering rely on the front tires and it is much better to be able to steer and stop and have to worry about fishtailing than not be able to stop at all.

To reduce hydroplaning you should put narrower tires on the vehicle. Having good tread helps but if the tires are too wide it reduces the contact pressure of the tires and increases lift.


Having said all this, Goodyear recommends you place the new ones on the rear. Learn something new every day!

http://www.goodyeartires.com/faqs/Care.html#9
 

Moraff

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shakenbake said:
Actually putting new ones on the front is not dumb if you can't afford all new ones. 60% of you braking and steering rely on the front tires and it is much better to be able to steer and stop and have to worry about fishtailing than not be able to stop at all.
Intuitively what you said makes 100% sense and is the way I thought before doing the research. However it is also 100% wrong. Follow the link to the michelinman site buttercup put up in an earlier post. Video evidence that you are incorrect (as was I)
 

shakenbake

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Moraff said:
Intuitively what you said makes 100% sense and is the way I thought before doing the research. However it is also 100% wrong. Follow the link to the michelinman site buttercup put up in an earlier post. Video evidence that you are incorrect (as was I)
Read the bottom of my post. There is another link to Goodyear that recommends the new tires be placed on the rear axle. :)
 

Moraff

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shakenbake said:
Read the bottom of my post. There is another link to Goodyear that recommends the new tires be placed on the rear axle. :)
Perhaps you should reread the post.

From the link: "When radial tires are used with bias or bias belted tires on the same car, the radials must always be placed on the rear axle"

That situation only pertains to when radial tires are mixed with bias/bias belted tires.

I can't remember the last time I've even seen tires other than radial offered for sale.
 

anon1

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Moraff said:
That situation only pertains to when radial tires are mixed with bias/bias belted tires.

I can't remember the last time I've even seen tires other than radial offered for sale.

That means that those technical specs has got to be at least 20 years old.
 

buttercup

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Verbalks, a comment re your original question . . .

Unless the vehicle was designed to take the larger tire (it will say so in the handbook), you run the risk that the large tire might make contact with something. Such contact would likely not occur during normal driving, but it might occur under some extreme condition, such as braking heavily with full steering applied. When you’re a heartbeat away from hitting something, you don’t want the added problem of the tire rubbing through the brake hose.

The front wheel arch of a car is why they coined the expression “space is at a premium”. Every millimeter the tire designers want has to be fought for with the brakes people, suspension people, and so on. There is no margin for customers to fit bigger tires, and still retain the proper clearance for contingencies.
 

anon1

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If you know what you're doing, you can run almost any size tire/rim on your car.
My last car came factory with 155/70/13 tires. I was running 205/40/16's without any problems.
 
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