Cito and Jays, Give it up guys

[beenthere123]

After every lost I say to myself. That's it I am not going to bother watching or listening to the radio anymore.

First that stupid GM goes on TV and says that Halladay confirmed he wanted to test free agency. What a loser he is why even bring it up. BTW I've met Ricchardi (That's his name?) a couple of times and always thought he was just a confident self assured type of man. Now I think he is just an arrogant conceded selfish person.

When Cisto Gaston came in I was one of the many that welcomed him. Through the season his loyalty to bad players pissed me off but just accepted it as that is the type of manager he is.

After bringing Downs again in the 9th tonight made me lose respect for him. Downs just blew his last 2 games and not the same pitcher after his injury. So WTF does he wants to give him a chance for his confidence when the team comes first?.

I really like Gaston's style and respect how our GM has put together a very good farm system. Also understand we cannot compete in the east as NY and Boston spend way more than us. BUT that is enough, time to move on.

Thanks for letting me vent guys.

 

[to-guy69]

What do you expect from a GM who doesn't even live here and also doesn't accompany the team on it's away games (he goes back to his hometown Boston).

Averaging 82-83 wins over an eight year span isn't good enough. The team isn't any better now then when he took over. The team barely mustered 86 wins in 2003 when Delgado, Wells and Halliday all had a "career" year at the same time. This is Riccardi's legacy to date here (thumbs down).

We need a GM who is going to convince ownership that we need to up the payroll like a top 5 baseball market which actually Toronto is in order to CONSISTENTLY compete in this difficult American league.

 

[ricepower88]

The coffin was sealed by Tampa today.

So when does hockey training camp start?

 

[jwmorrice]

I guess it could be worse. You could be a Mets' fan.

jwm

 

[maurice93]

like a top 5 baseball market which actually Toronto is

LOL

 

[SkyRider]

Cito keeps running guys out there to demonstrate his "confidence" in them. Let's be blunt, Wells is a .255 hitter with limited power. Rios is a .265 hitter with limited power. Now they are ruining Downs' confidence by running him out there for the second day in a row.

 

[Primetime21]

They should just make it a package deal, get rid of JP and Cito at the same time. I know a lot of people on here are Cito fans, but i really have to wonder how good of a manager he is. As a hitting coach, or instructor, i give him all the credit in the world. But as a manager i really have to question some of his moves, or lack thereof. He definitely isn't a fan of pinch-hitting, which during this season could have cost the team a few games. Being loyal to the starting line-up he came up with is one thing, but winning games is more important than a few bruised egos. Do what ever it takes to win, i don't care if that is pinch-hitting, bunting runners along, etc, just win baby. And pitching staff, especially the relievers, which were once considered an asset, are all hitting the skids at the same time. Let someone new be the GM and hire their own manager, they can't do any worse than what we have right now.

 

[tribunus]

I'm now convinced Halladay will be traded. The last two games have driven home the point that this team is in nowheresville. With any kind of run support Doc should be at 14 wins and cruising towards to a 2nd Cy Young.

The rumoured offers from Philly and Angels are underwhelming. I think Texas and the White Sox are lurking in the shadows and can offer premium prospects.

 

[mac]

we need to up the payroll like a top 5 baseball market which actually Toronto .

i keep hearing that Toronto is a top 5 or 4 market in North America yet i have yet to be able to find the data that backs up this claim......1. new york 19 million, 2. LA, 3. Chicago 4 Dalaas Fort Worth 5. Philly 6. Houston 7. Miami 5.4 million 8. Atlanta 9. Washington 5.3 million .....Where does Toronto fit into that? Population of toronto census metroploitan are 5.1 million.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto Somehow in our nationalist quest to pump ourselves up we continuously inflate our population or include all of Southern Ontario or Golden Horshoe in the numbers.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

i keep hearing that Toronto is a top 5 or 4 market in North America yet i have yet to be able to find the data that backs up this claim......1. new york 19 million, 2. LA, 3. Chicago 4 Dalaas Fort Worth 5. Philly 6. Houston 7. Miami 5.4 million 8. Atlanta 9. Washington 5.3 million .....Where does Toronto fit into that? Population of toronto census metroploitan are 5.1 million.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto Somehow in our nationalist quest to pump ourselves up we continuously inflate our population or include all of Southern Ontario or Golden Horshoe in the numbers.

Actually it is seventh in population alone - and the area covered by the GTA is in a much more concentrated space than Dallas-Forth Worth Metroplex (4th), Philadelphia/Delaware Valley (5th), Greater Houston (6th) or Miami/South Florida (a close 8th.) In fact, New York metropolitan/Tri State (1st), Greater Los Angeles (2nd) and Chicago/Metro Chicagoland (3rd) also have much greater areas in land space and much lower population densities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_metropolitan_areas_in_the_Americas

Also keep in mind that there's only a 1 million person population difference from 4th-10th, so even if we're "only" 7th, the difference is negligible.

Make no mistake, Toronto is a huge city - and it would be even bigger if we included the Golden Horseshoe, which is a better comparable, area-wise. Too bad the area is not a baseball market - unless we have a new team, new stadium and/or championship contender.

 

[mac]

- and it would be even bigger if we included the Golden Horseshoe, which is a better comparable, area-wise. Too bad the area is not a baseball market - unless we have a new team, new stadium and/or championship contender.

well if you start combining things like the whole Golden Horseshoe you have to do the same in the US and then a number of other cities show up like the whole San Fran-San Jose bay area. But i get the point...thanks for the clarification. It doesn't help Toronto that the team has not had meaningful games in Sept for over 15 years and the payroll relative to the contneders has continued to drop. If Rogers doesn't give a shit about winning baseball....why should the fans. I am surprised that there isn't a larger diehard core base of fans in a city this large. Ive been to two games this year and the palce is packed with kids that clearly aren't there for the game but just for the outing. Where are the real fans? There has to be some. Ahy idea what the TV viewership numbers are?

 

[bangminton]

Actually it is seventh in population alone - and the area covered by the GTA is in a much more concentrated space than Dallas-Forth Worth Metroplex (4th), Philadelphia/Delaware Valley (5th), Greater Houston (6th) or Miami/South Florida (a close 8th.) In fact, New York metropolitan/Tri State (1st), Greater Los Angeles (2nd) and Chicago/Metro Chicagoland (3rd) also have much greater areas in land space and much lower population densities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_metropolitan_areas_in_the_Americas

Also keep in mind that there's only a 1 million person population difference from 4th-10th, so even if we're "only" 7th, the difference is negligible.

Make no mistake, Toronto is a huge city - and it would be even bigger if we included the Golden Horseshoe, which is a better comparable, area-wise. Too bad the area is not a baseball market - unless we have a new team, new stadium and/or championship contender.

That may explain why, baseball has always been an American pastime. I would hazard a guess that sports fans in B.C. follow the Mariners more than the Jays. Ditto for the Twins and Saskatchewan/Manitoba folks.

Les Expos skipped town and there was barely any outcry. Not that they are doing any better in Washington. But I digress.

 

[Don]

In fact, New York metropolitan/Tri State (1st), Greater Los Angeles (2nd) and Chicago/Metro Chicagoland (3rd) also have much greater areas in land space and much lower population densities.

No way the GTA has a higher population density than NYC area. I've lived in downtown Toronto for most of my life. When I visited NYC, I've never seen such density anywhere in Toronto. We have a few pockets with high density but almost the entire island of Manhattan (minus Central Park) is like that. And the other boroughs (Queen, Bronx, Brooklyn) are pretty crowded too.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

No way the GTA has a higher population density than NYC area. I've lived in downtown Toronto for most of my life. When I visited NYC, I've never seen such density anywhere in Toronto. We have a few pockets with high density but almost the entire island of Manhattan (minus Central Park) is like that. And the other boroughs (Queen, Bronx, Brooklyn) are pretty crowded too.

Yes, I understand that New York City proper has a much higher population density than the city of Toronto, but that's not what we were talking about earlier in this discussion. Please read the link I provided - NYC as a metropolitan area also includes Long Island & the Hudson Valley and parts of New Jersey, Connecticut and Pennsylvania.

As far as JUST cities (and not metropolitan areas), Toronto has the 4th highest population of any non-Mexican North American city. THAT's where people get the "Toronto is the 4th or 5th largest city in baseball" argument from.

 

[OnTheWayOut]

the area covered by the GTA is in a much more concentrated space ................... In fact, New York metropolitan/Tri State (1st), Greater Los Angeles (2nd) and Chicago/Metro Chicagoland (3rd) also have much greater areas in land space and much lower population densities.

You realize Toronto's density is needed for everyone to stay warm

 

[mandrill]

Actually it is seventh in population alone - and the area covered by the GTA is in a much more concentrated space than Dallas-Forth Worth Metroplex (4th), Philadelphia/Delaware Valley (5th), Greater Houston (6th) or Miami/South Florida (a close 8th.) In fact, New York metropolitan/Tri State (1st), Greater Los Angeles (2nd) and Chicago/Metro Chicagoland (3rd) also have much greater areas in land space and much lower population densities.

Also keep in mind that there's only a 1 million person population difference from 4th-10th, so even if we're "only" 7th, the difference is negligible.

Make no mistake, Toronto is a huge city - and it would be even bigger if we included the Golden Horseshoe, which is a better comparable, area-wise. Too bad the area is not a baseball market - unless we have a new team, new stadium and/or championship contender.

I've always looked on the relevant stat as being oagre's mythical "easy commute" stat - i.e. What would be a non-taxing drive of 2 hours or less for a ball fan/ group of fans.

With this stat, Blue Jay land would begin around orillia or Belleville and go west to London and south to Niagara Falls. This is what the average fan would put up with to go view an evening's / afternoon's entertainment.

This gives Toronto a reasonable top 6 placement in baseball markets. It also boosts Detroit due to the highly urbanized Southern Michigan area. some other areas without mid-sized cities nearby - Atlanta? Dallas? - would fall a few places.

Also remember that some areas are split between multiple franchises. Chicago-Milwaukee has 3. Washington-Baltimore has 2, etc.