Civil War: MAGA in Turmoil

[Valcazar]

Your little chart doesnt tell us much.

The article claims 895 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of 2020 were deported, but cancelled about 74 percent of those detainees.
That means 662 US citizens were not deported. So why were the 662 US citizens not deported, and why were the remaining 233 indeed deported??
Were the 233 deported not actual US citizens?? Maybe they had fake passports??
Until you post every single case we dont know the answer to that.

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-487

And also show us the stats for the Obama and Biden full terms as a comparison.
Were US citizens deported during their terms??

And now the flailing.

No, the article does not claim "895 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of 2020 were deported, but cancelled about 74 percent of those detainees."

You could, you know, read the article and not just skim it desperately looking for something.

Here's a quote of the sentence you seem to have latched on to.

"Available ICE data indicate ICE issued detainers for at least 895 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of 2020 and cancelled about 74 percent of those detainers."

You will notice the complete lack of the word "deported" here.

Of course, just a little above that (right next to a graph you may be familiar with by now) is this:

" Available data indicate ICE and CBP took enforcement actions against some U.S. citizens. For example, available ICE data indicate that ICE arrested 674, detained 121, and removed 70 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of fiscal year 2020"

You are free to go look up gao reports on the subject and see if you can find similar reports on their eras.
Since the report seems to have been commissioned in response to a specific complaint, I doubt you will find that.
Which is, of course, the point of you asking, I expect.

 

[richaceg]

Don't be silly.
Trump is far from the only fascist in the world.

But that is a graph of ICE activity against US citizens from 2015-2020, which is what that part of the discussion is about.
It isn't a graph of "fascism".

I'm glad hearing someone on your side finally come to terms he's not fascist...lmao..

 

[Valcazar]

53% overall disapprove of ICE.
View attachment 519540

Ah.
Thank you.

I'd really like to see the strongly approve/disapprove numbers here.
I think "somewhat" rarely results in shifts in possible voting behavior.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

It does not, because 2015 and 2006 were only 2 of Obama's eight-year term.
It also doesn't list Biden's full term

Yes, but there were no removals during Obama's 2 terms for which the data is presented.
Maybe you can extrapolate that to the rest of his terms and say deportations if any were minimal to none, because the administration did whatever was possible to minimize such things.
The issue here is that the Trump administration is making no bones about being completely for or atleast careless about deportations of citizens as long as the ones being deported belong to certain demographic groups.

 

[richaceg]

53% overall disapprove of ICE.
View attachment 519540

77m is good enough numbers to say majority approved

 

[richaceg]

I'm sorry?
Are drug dealers automatically enrolled in the military?

They don't but they are a criminal org that have been categorized as terrorists..

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

77m is good enough numbers to say majority approved

As you can see from the poll, the majority of Republican voters still do support these things.
But the % of them who support ICE has possibly reduced to a point that overall a majority disapprove of ICE.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

And now the flailing.

No, the article does not claim "895 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of 2020 were deported, but cancelled about 74 percent of those detainees."

You could, you know, read the article and not just skim it desperately looking for something.

Here's a quote of the sentence you seem to have latched on to.

"Available ICE data indicate ICE issued detainers for at least 895 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of 2020 and cancelled about 74 percent of those detainers."

You will notice the complete lack of the word "deported" here.

Of course, just a little above that (right next to a graph you may be familiar with by now) is this:

" Available data indicate ICE and CBP took enforcement actions against some U.S. citizens. For example, available ICE data indicate that ICE arrested 674, detained 121, and removed 70 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of fiscal year 2020"

You are free to go look up gao reports on the subject and see if you can find similar reports on their eras.
Since the report seems to have been commissioned in response to a specific complaint, I doubt you will find that.
Which is, of course, the point of you asking, I expect

My bad then, I read it wrong.

But the paragraph you posted actually makes your case look even worse, because it says Trump deported POTENTIAL citizens, it doesn't say actual citizens.

Maybe they were in the process of getting their US citizenship, but they were suspected criminals or terrorists, and thats why they were deported??

If thats true then it makes Trump's deportations perfectly legal

 

[WyattEarp]

Just curious, but how much do you trust these polling companies after the 2024 election when most of them turned out to be wrong??

Ding, ding! Exactly.

I have said this before if you don't see polling numbers in the 60s or at a minimum the high 50s you don't really have strong sentiment one way or another. It also demonstrates overwhelming support that pollsters can't monkey around. We have all seen political-leaning pollsters who operate under tell me what result you want and then I will write the question.

Now we know 3 out of dentists recommend Trident gum. That's saying something.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Yes, but there were no removals during Obama's 2 terms for which the data is presented.
Maybe you can extrapolate that to the rest of his terms and say deportations if any were minimal to none, because the administration did whatever was possible to minimize such things.
The issue here is that the Trump administration is making no bones about being completely for or atleast careless about deportations of citizens as long as the ones being deported belong to certain demographic groups

Does the chart Valcazar posted show deportations of POTENTIAL citizens or ACTUAL US citizens??

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I consider them directionally correct

What you really saying is you HOPE The polls are correct, because you want Republicans to lose the midterms

 

[Valcazar]

I'm glad hearing someone on your side finally come to terms he's not fascist...lmao..

Do you have difficulty reading?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Does the chart Valcazar posted show deportations of POTENTIAL citizens or ACTUAL US citizens??

Potential US citizens.
Potential US citizens could potentially be actual citizens, so you cannot be careless with it, which the Trump administration is.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

What you really saying is you HOPE The polls are correct, because you want Republicans to lose the midterms

I do want the Republicans to lose the mid terms but the polls show what they show.
It is far more logical to consider them directionally correct than to argue that polls are completely inaccurate.
What you should be arguing is that polls done at a certain time, may not reflect what the voter choice may be at a future time.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

In other words, they will go to any lengths to make any point that supports their worldview.

That's rich coming from a guy who says that due process is "Eh, too much process".

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Potential US citizens.
Potential US citizens could potentially be actual citizens, so you cannot be careless with it, which the Trump administration is

But you realize potential US citizens doesn't necessarily mean actual US citizens, right??

Its a really dumb way to write a report.
"Potential US citizens", what the hell does that even mean??!!

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

According to Google AI it means they're not actually US citizens.

Another @Valcazar fail

Read: https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...wcwLjQuOS4xyAc7gAgA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

"Potential US citizens", what the hell does that even mean??!!

Meaning their status is not clear to ICE.
And if not clear for whatever reason, they need to follow proper procedure to determine that instead of hastily deporting them and asking questions later.

 

[Valcazar]

77m is good enough numbers to say majority approved

Do you understand how time works?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Meaning their status is not clear to ICE

No, that's not what it means.

Read: https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...wcwLjQuOS4xyAc7gAgA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp