I have heard arguments both for and against condo ownership. I know the equation is a bit different in the GTA, but suppose that don't live in the GTA, like in a much smaller city (like 300,000). I have owned a condo/townhouse for a couple years. I have considered the ups and downs of the issue... Popular belief has told me that condo fees are a waste of money, your condo won't be worth much/anything in 20 years, the value doesn't go up like that of a house (last to appreciate, first to depreciate). On the other hand, I have had people say they spend as much if not more in maintenance of their house than they would a condo.
condos vs free standing units?
- Thread starter desert monk
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I am on the side of condo fees as a waste of money. Also, you have little control over condo fee increases and when the board needs to ask you for extra money because the fund is in shortfall. A buddy of mine pays like $550 in condo fees and that is more than than half of what I pay in rent.
Sometimes Condo builders sell you a condo, then turn around and install themselves as the condo administrator for 20 years.They pad the condo fees to make money on you, by using their company owned maintenance, electrical, plumbing, landscaping companies.
My understanding is that condo fees are set by the condo administrative board (or something like that, I don't know the precise name), of which you as a condo owner are legally entitled to sit in, and they vote on the condo fees based on the reserve pool, need for maintenance and security, etc.
I have had several friends who have purchased both free-standing homes and condos, and whether one is beneficial than the others really depends on where you choose to live, employment, and other factors.
Free-standing homes often (although not always) tend to appreciate in value over time, so for resale purposes, it may be a wiser investment. Also, if you intend to raise a family, homes tend to be more spacious. On the other hand, homes can be very expensive to maintain, and you are responsible for shovelling the snow in the driveway, paying for electricity and hydro bills, and maintaining the security of your home.
Condo ownership tends to be very convenient in that regard, in that maintenance and security are provided by the condo association. Many condos, especially in the GTA tend to be located in areas close to major shopping centres or areas of employment, leading to commuting convenience. Also, for many (but not all) condos, your electricity and hydro bills are included in the monthly condo fees. However, condos tend to depreciate in value over time, and poorly designed condos can have issues with noise from neighbours or plumbing issues as well. Condos tend to be smaller as well, which is not too convenient for families.
Bottom line:
(1) If you are single, and live alone within the GTA, condos are probably the best investment.
(2) If you travel frequently (for work or pleasure), condos are probably also the best investment.
(3) If you live with a group of people or have a family, homes are probably the best investment.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I have had several friends who have purchased both free-standing homes and condos, and whether one is beneficial than the others really depends on where you choose to live, employment, and other factors.
Free-standing homes often (although not always) tend to appreciate in value over time, so for resale purposes, it may be a wiser investment. Also, if you intend to raise a family, homes tend to be more spacious. On the other hand, homes can be very expensive to maintain, and you are responsible for shovelling the snow in the driveway, paying for electricity and hydro bills, and maintaining the security of your home.
Condo ownership tends to be very convenient in that regard, in that maintenance and security are provided by the condo association. Many condos, especially in the GTA tend to be located in areas close to major shopping centres or areas of employment, leading to commuting convenience. Also, for many (but not all) condos, your electricity and hydro bills are included in the monthly condo fees. However, condos tend to depreciate in value over time, and poorly designed condos can have issues with noise from neighbours or plumbing issues as well. Condos tend to be smaller as well, which is not too convenient for families.
Bottom line:
(1) If you are single, and live alone within the GTA, condos are probably the best investment.
(2) If you travel frequently (for work or pleasure), condos are probably also the best investment.
(3) If you live with a group of people or have a family, homes are probably the best investment.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Not quite. You're usually not allowed to sit in but you are allowed to run to be elected as a member of your condo Board. Personally I think it's a good thing people can't sit in on Board meetings because every whack job will show up and disturb the meeting rather than bother to try and get elected. It's much easier to be the disruptive loner so I don't blame condo Boards one bit for not having public Board meetings. They should still have "town hall" meetings with the rest of the occupants but Board meetings should be behind closed doors.
My experience with condo fees is that they're been pretty transparent. Condos aren't "for profit" so it's pretty hard (or relatively easy to catch) if the Board starts fucking around with the budget. That's why you want to make sure your condo finances are being audited every year.
Condos are convenient and cheaper than owning a house (and most people aren't going to buy a house when they're single). That's what it pretty much boils down to.
Simply put, different lifestyles.
If you are looking for investment, as they say location, location, location likely makes more of a difference than condo vs house.
btw. condo fees = mowing, shovelling, gardening, maintenance, ... all of the chores that owning a house requires plus whatever facilities the building has.
If you are looking for investment, as they say location, location, location likely makes more of a difference than condo vs house.
btw. condo fees = mowing, shovelling, gardening, maintenance, ... all of the chores that owning a house requires plus whatever facilities the building has.
Exactly, how do you want your lifestlyle to be? Also depends at what stage in life your at. I've worked my ass off throughout my life and did the household maintenance, gardening, cleaning, chores, etc.... and had the energy and desire in my younger days. Those days are gone, I'm ready for the next stage, I'd rather pay someone do those things and I want to be on the golf course. I also like the fact if I want to catch a flight to an island for a week's vacation or take a month cruise I quickly pack my clothes, and underwear or two for each day, lol, and turn the key. I have no worries living in a condo as I would have if I owned a house.
Under the Condominium Act which governs and regulates all condominiums in Ontario that cannot happen.
That's right.. it can happen that they have friends in the board but that's not going to last long. Typically the first year or so the contracts are with very builder friendly companies (obviously, since the builder installed them), but that will change..
It depends on why and where you are buying the house or condo. Is it for convenience or is it for investment? If it is for investment, go with the free standing house in a good location. All the houses I had invested or bought gave me back 120 to 150% in ten yrs. My bother's condo gave him back 35% in 11yrs. Always remember, you can build buildings and grow trees, but you cannot grow land. My son bought a house near Angus glen golf course just a little under 2 yrs ago, now the price has gone up 40%.
The Condo Act does not prevent a developer from owning companies and servicing the condominium. In fact some developers own a property management company that manages the condo during the occupancy period and right after condo registration. Note that the board of a condominium prior to occupancy and registration is appointed by the developer and is usually comprised of "friendlies" to the developer.
However, the Condo Act does give the first elected board after registration, now made up of unit owners or whoever gets elected, the power to negate any contract without penalty, regardless of the terms and conditions in the contract, that the developer has signed prior to the first elected board after registration, BUT the first board must do this within the first 12 months after registration. The board can still cancel contracts after the first 12 months after registration however they are subject to the terms and conditions in the contract, whatever they may be, just like any contract.
You have to read the point I was responding to. The developer cannot impose a 20 year contact because board following the turnover can terminate it. Likewise if they feel that fees are excessive. Some developers have an interest in management companies that do a very good job at reasonable rates. Very different then imposing a long term contract at exorbitant or padded rates.
Agreed.
Don't know what you mean here, regardless the board has to set the condo fees to cover the total expenses and reserve fund for the following year. If they can get contractors for less price, fees come down accordingly.toguy5252 said:
My experience has been developers own property management companies outright, or have an informal, unwritten agreement to their benefit in exchange for the business, this has to be closely scrutinized. If you're in the business you know who they are.toguy5252 said:
In my experience new buildings UNDER-STATE the condo fees, in order to make the cost of living look cheaper than it really is, and attract more buyers. Most condo boards find that they have to raise the fees significantly after 2-3 years when the true cost of maintaining the building becomes apparent.
My feeling is that when you are looking to buy a condo the ideal building is one that has been up and running for a couple of years, but not more than 10 years. That way you've got a modern construction, and it's been running long enough for any issues to become apparent. You get a much more realistic assessment of the real costs in that case.
Condo builders count on the fact that most condo buyers do not want the responsibility of ownership and the usual maintenance like cleaning the snow or cutting the grass. hen a condo project is built and sold the first condo management group is supplied by the builder or the might tell you it is another company handling it. ( with will be a cousin, or brother in law ) Unless you want to step up and become the condo president, most condos I know keep the condo management in place.
Condos are a bad bet investment wise, it only becomes a better choice when there is a special need like being close to your work. There is an over supply of condos across Canada at this time according to CMHC. When condo prices dive, it will be steep.
For those that do not agree, I defer you to Rubby, a guy that sits there all day and late into the night and wakes up in the wee hours of the morning to offer you his opinion must be old and wise. With 130 plus post in the last week alone, he is working hard to say it as it is.
This was a very informative post!
You've described my condo experience to a tee!
Daniels used to up until recently but are now out of the property management business.
