He's not superstar but a clutch shooter and "7" NBA titles.
Maybe eventually?
But probably never.
Maybe eventually?
But probably never.
Do you think Robert Horry will make the HOF, eventually?
- Thread starter Back Burner
- Start date
I don't think so. He's made some great shots but I don't think it's a HOF career. It's similiar to the people in Hockey who argue for Paul Henderson based on the '72 series although "Big Shot Bob" has done it for longer.
I just don't see it.
I just don't see it.
Horry won't make the HOF. Here's a couple of facts concering players in the HOF.
1) Every MVP since 1949, exlcuding those ineligible, are in the HOF. Horry has never won MVP.
2) 90% of all the players in the HOF have made All NBA 1st-team at least twice. Horry has never even made 3rd-team All NBA.
3) The remainder of the Hall-Of-Fame is made up of coaches and players who brought the league into a new era.
1) Every MVP since 1949, exlcuding those ineligible, are in the HOF. Horry has never won MVP.
2) 90% of all the players in the HOF have made All NBA 1st-team at least twice. Horry has never even made 3rd-team All NBA.
3) The remainder of the Hall-Of-Fame is made up of coaches and players who brought the league into a new era.
I vote yes!
First off, I actually really don't like Robert Horry.
Having said that, he has won 7 NBA Championships (more than Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird) playing for 3 different teams! No, I wouldn't consider him even close to the same calibre of any of those players, however I feel this accomplishment HAS to count for something!!
The man clearly knows how to win titles. In almost every season his team won the title, he was a significant contributor to that accomplishment (I exclude his 1st 2 titles with Houston only because he was so young.) Top-tier teams keep signing him because they know this!
There are players in the HOF who never won 1 championship, never mind 7 (Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Dan Issel, to name a few) so clearly this is not a prerequisite for entry. But ask yourself, if you thought your team was close to winning a championship, who would you rather add: Barkley, Wilkins, Issel...or Robert Horry?
Definitely not a first or second ballot inductee, but I believe oneday he should (and will) find himself in the HOF!
P.S. Who says he's done, I think the Spurs arguably have to be the hands on favourite to win another championship next season.
First off, I actually really don't like Robert Horry.
Having said that, he has won 7 NBA Championships (more than Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird) playing for 3 different teams! No, I wouldn't consider him even close to the same calibre of any of those players, however I feel this accomplishment HAS to count for something!!
The man clearly knows how to win titles. In almost every season his team won the title, he was a significant contributor to that accomplishment (I exclude his 1st 2 titles with Houston only because he was so young.) Top-tier teams keep signing him because they know this!
There are players in the HOF who never won 1 championship, never mind 7 (Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Dan Issel, to name a few) so clearly this is not a prerequisite for entry. But ask yourself, if you thought your team was close to winning a championship, who would you rather add: Barkley, Wilkins, Issel...or Robert Horry?
Definitely not a first or second ballot inductee, but I believe oneday he should (and will) find himself in the HOF!
P.S. Who says he's done, I think the Spurs arguably have to be the hands on favourite to win another championship next season.
I dont think he gets in. Robert Horry is a great clutch shooter. But the guy has a career 7.2 ppg average, and he has never averaged more then 12.0 ppg in a season. Those are not HOF numbers.
Read up on RH and he holds a number of records......
I think what he has done is great but I have to admit he's nowhere near the calibre of the usual suspects for the HOF.
Horry collected his seventh championship as a member of the Spurs in 2007.[2]. He is one of only nine players to have won seven or more championships in the NBA, and the only one who did not play on the 1960s Celtics. In 2005, he joined John Salley as the only players to win NBA rings with three different teams. Horry has also played in more NBA playoff games than any player except Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
Horry is second on the all-time list of three-pointers made in the playoffs, behind only Reggie Miller. He also holds the record for three-pointers all-time in the NBA Finals with 53, having eclipsed Michael Jordan's previous record of 42. He holds the NBA Playoffs record for most three-point field goals made in a game without a miss (7), against the Utah Jazz in Game 2 of the 1997 Western Conference Semifinals.
Robert Horry has been to the NBA Playoffs every year in his career, and has won seven NBA titles--the most by a non-Celtic
To put the number of rings in perspective here are the players that have won 5 or more rings.
11 Bill Russell
10 Sam Jones
8 Tom Heinsohn
8 KC Jones
8 Tom Sanders
8 John Havlicek
7 Jim Loscutoff
7 Frank Ramsey
7 Robert Horry
6 Bob Cousy
6 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6 Michael Jordan
6 Scottie Pippen
5 George Mikan
5 Vern Mikkelsen
5 Jim Pollard
5 Slater Martin
5 Larry Siegfried
5 Don Nelson
5 Michael Cooper
5 Magic Johnson
5 Dennis Rodman
5 Ron Harper
5 Steve Kerr
I think what he has done is great but I have to admit he's nowhere near the calibre of the usual suspects for the HOF.
Horry collected his seventh championship as a member of the Spurs in 2007.[2]. He is one of only nine players to have won seven or more championships in the NBA, and the only one who did not play on the 1960s Celtics. In 2005, he joined John Salley as the only players to win NBA rings with three different teams. Horry has also played in more NBA playoff games than any player except Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
Horry is second on the all-time list of three-pointers made in the playoffs, behind only Reggie Miller. He also holds the record for three-pointers all-time in the NBA Finals with 53, having eclipsed Michael Jordan's previous record of 42. He holds the NBA Playoffs record for most three-point field goals made in a game without a miss (7), against the Utah Jazz in Game 2 of the 1997 Western Conference Semifinals.
Robert Horry has been to the NBA Playoffs every year in his career, and has won seven NBA titles--the most by a non-Celtic
To put the number of rings in perspective here are the players that have won 5 or more rings.
11 Bill Russell
10 Sam Jones
8 Tom Heinsohn
8 KC Jones
8 Tom Sanders
8 John Havlicek
7 Jim Loscutoff
7 Frank Ramsey
7 Robert Horry
6 Bob Cousy
6 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6 Michael Jordan
6 Scottie Pippen
5 George Mikan
5 Vern Mikkelsen
5 Jim Pollard
5 Slater Martin
5 Larry Siegfried
5 Don Nelson
5 Michael Cooper
5 Magic Johnson
5 Dennis Rodman
5 Ron Harper
5 Steve Kerr
This is a real tough one. I wonder how much consideration Baseball will give to Paul O'Neil. Put up some decent numbers albeit as strictly a platoon player most of his career in Cincinati, but had some big playoff moments and 5 WS rings in this era is as tough as 8 in the NBA.
Heck if you want to count titles, you have to consider Luis Soho & Shane Spencer I suppose.
I can't really think of a player in any sport who's playoff success and significance is so out of proportion to his regular season role and numbers.
Especially in LA, there were quite a few games that Horry decided, after spending most of it on the bench, Jackson brings him in ice cold for the last few posessions and gives him the ball instead of Kobe or Shaq, and he makes the shots!
I don't think the Henderson comparison really applies. Henderson was single handedly the difference in two of the games in Moscow, but that was all over a period of a few days. The Horry thing has been going on for a decade, and if he plays 3 more years in SA like he said he would, it's almost inevitable that they'l win a title in at least one of those years!
Heck if you want to count titles, you have to consider Luis Soho & Shane Spencer I suppose.
I can't really think of a player in any sport who's playoff success and significance is so out of proportion to his regular season role and numbers.
Especially in LA, there were quite a few games that Horry decided, after spending most of it on the bench, Jackson brings him in ice cold for the last few posessions and gives him the ball instead of Kobe or Shaq, and he makes the shots!
I don't think the Henderson comparison really applies. Henderson was single handedly the difference in two of the games in Moscow, but that was all over a period of a few days. The Horry thing has been going on for a decade, and if he plays 3 more years in SA like he said he would, it's almost inevitable that they'l win a title in at least one of those years!
I don't think the Paul O'Neil comparison is any more valid than the Paul Henderson one.
Hard Idle said:
In history Paul O'Neil only ranks 15th on the list of most WS teams played for, tied with 13 other players. This means, in total, 29 players would have played for 5 or more WS winning teams, in the WS.
In basketball, only 9 players have ever won 7 or more championships! Plus, as we both mentioned in our previous posts, the odds are good that Horry will win at least one more championship before he is done which would give him 8. This would tie him for 3rd all time in NBA championships. Every other player on that list played for the Celtics during their dynasty in the 1960's.
Given the (much) smaller rosters of an NBA team vs. a MLB team, and the fact that basketball is a much more individual game than baseball, I think this is even more significant.
Hard Idle said:
but we are not talking about most in an era.5 WS rings in this era is as tough as 8 in the NBA
In history Paul O'Neil only ranks 15th on the list of most WS teams played for, tied with 13 other players. This means, in total, 29 players would have played for 5 or more WS winning teams, in the WS.
In basketball, only 9 players have ever won 7 or more championships! Plus, as we both mentioned in our previous posts, the odds are good that Horry will win at least one more championship before he is done which would give him 8. This would tie him for 3rd all time in NBA championships. Every other player on that list played for the Celtics during their dynasty in the 1960's.
Given the (much) smaller rosters of an NBA team vs. a MLB team, and the fact that basketball is a much more individual game than baseball, I think this is even more significant.
He has won a lot of championship rings, but is that really a criteria for getting into a HOF. In my opinion not even close. Look at his career stats, including the regular season, they really aren't that good. He hasn't been a starter on a few of those championship teams. Just because he won all those titles, by that logic, should someone who didn't win one title yet had outstanding stats, not get into the HOF. Can Horry make a big shot, no doubt about it, but HOF worthy, not even close.
I'm going to have to agree with Prime time. His individual stats just aren't good enough. However when you line up his achievements like Franky did, I wouldn't be surprised if he got in.
He shouldn't get into the HOF. How many of those players who won 5 rings will get in? Kerr or Harper or Rodman are not deserving so why is Horry? he's a reliable back-up who is a clutch shooter and that is why teams trade for him when they're close to winning. People put so much emphasis on winning a ring in a team sport. If someone won 7 rings in an individual sport then he's awesome; but don't forget basketball is a team sport.
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xdog said:He shouldn't get into the HOF. How many of those players who won 5 rings will get in? Kerr or Harper or Rodman are not deserving so why is Horry?
I'd vote Rodman to the HOF in an instant. The championships wouldn;t play a significant role in that. I'd vote him in because he was the very best at what he did. Even during his brief comeback, past his prime and out of shape, he immediately took over the league lead in rebounds while he played. When a guy is clearly the best at what he does on his worst day, that's greatness.
You can't simply lump Horry in with other guys who won rings piggybacking off one dynasty, because Horry won with 4 different teams - that's one heck of a coincidence. Of all the teamates he played with, how many won a championship with another organization?
I'm not saying I'd vote for Horry, I honestly wouln't know which way to go, it's too unique.
Good point and another thing to remember about the Worm was that he also won a Defensive Player of the year. If you overlook the off the court shenanigans, Rodman is far more worthy of the HOF than BSB.Hard Idle said:I'd vote Rodman to the HOF in an instant. The championships wouldn;t play a significant role in that. I'd vote him in because he was the very best at what he did. Even during his brief comeback, past his prime and out of shape, he immediately took over the league lead in rebounds while he played. When a guy is clearly the best at what he does on his worst day, that's greatness.
Realistically, Horry is a solid player with a knack for hitting major shots. Note, that isn't the same as having huge games either.
Another guy to compare to is Chris Drury who also has that knack for the big goal. It's a great characteristic but not the main thing to push a player's candidacy into the HOF.
Stats, consistency, longevity, individual accolades and awards, championships and unfortunately to some extent, off field/ice/court manner matter in defining a HOF-calibre career. BSB does not meet enough criteria to make it.
Not a chance. The guy hasn't even been to an All Star game. He's a guy that provides a spark off the bench, ala Steve Kerr.
I don't care if he looks like Will Smith.
I don't care if he looks like Will Smith.
Luke Longley has 3 rings and Hakeem Olajuwon has 2. Does that make Luke Longley the better center?
I agree with those who say he shouldn't make the Hall. Let's take Jamaal Wilkes as an example. He won 4 championships with the Lakers and the Warriors. He was rookie-of-the-year; a three-time all-star; two-time 2nd-team NBA defense; and 2nd scoring option on both teams. He isn't in the Hall-of-fame.
Horry has the rings but certainly not the stats to back up a HOF run. He's made some timely shots and has been lucky to be on championship teams but to make the HOF? No.
Maybe his agent -for helping him sign on to winners after every contract cycle.
Maybe his agent -for helping him sign on to winners after every contract cycle.
Again, you guys lump Horry in with the Kerrs and Longleys who piggy backed off one great dynasty. But Horry is now with his 4th repeating champion. And how many of those other passengers would routinely get the ball or draw a big defensive assignment in game-on-line situations instead of the teams star palyers?
It's just a very unique situation. It would be like a baseball player who is a backup catcher & pinch runner for most of the regular season, then in the playoffs, he bats clean up and also pitches out of the bullpen as the alternate closer.
It's just a very unique situation. It would be like a baseball player who is a backup catcher & pinch runner for most of the regular season, then in the playoffs, he bats clean up and also pitches out of the bullpen as the alternate closer.
A unique situation indeed. I have no problems with him being in the HOF. He's hit so many game winners for these teams that it's hard to argue his value for these teams' title runs. For me, that's enough to overcome his season stats.Hard Idle said:Again, you guys lump Horry in with the Kerrs and Longleys who piggy backed off one great dynasty. But Horry is now with his 4th repeating champion. And how many of those other passengers would routinely get the ball or draw a big defensive assignment in game-on-line situations instead of the teams star palyers?
It's just a very unique situation. It would be like a baseball player who is a backup catcher & pinch runner for most of the regular season, then in the playoffs, he bats clean up and also pitches out of the bullpen as the alternate closer.
