Fuse box mayhem

[squash500]

I admit that I'm not the most handy guy in the world . I appreciate the help that my fellow terbites gave me with regards to my peeling ceiling problem. So far it seems that the new drywall has prevented anymore peeling.

Here is my latest apartment controversy. It seems that I am the a1 player of apartment mishaps--lol. This morning I am on the computer, and all of a sudden I smell a burning smell coming from my fuse box. Then suddenly my window air conditioner shuts down and my computer shuts off. I live in a bachelor apt. Suddenly half the apartment has power and half doesn't.

Of course I panic, as not only do I have Asperger syndrome but I have a severe anxiety disorder as well. I proceed to go the fuse box, remove the two 15 amp fuses and notice that the circle where the fuses fit into is burned to a crisp. I happened to have a couple of spare 15 amp fuses so I try to replace them myself. I replace one of the fuses and sparks start to fly. The burning smell has become overwhelming.

I call down to the super and tell him the problem. He says he won't be able to get an electrician until Monday. I say that is totally unacceptable etc. To make a long story short an electrician comes two hours later--lol. The electrician proceeds to unscrew the fuse box and sparks are flying everywhere. He replaces the two 15 amp fuses and now everything is working again.

My question is whether my computer will be damaged from this? It seems to be working fine now as I had it plugged into a surgemaster with phone line protection power cord? However, the rca led clock radio that I had by my bed totally shorted out if that makes sense? I couldn't get the clock to work therefore I had to throw it out?

Is 15 amps the maximum amount of power that I should be using in the fuse box? The fuse box contains four slots. Right now it consists of 3 15 amp fuses and 1 30 amp fuse which seems to be used to run the stove if that makes sense? The super then cryptically said that only 3 of the fuse slots are actually working whatever that means? I live in an old building and he says that eventually all the fuse boxes have to be replaced.

To prevent this from happening again, should I turn off my window a/c before I go out? Will the burning smell coming from the fuse box eventually go away? Sorry for all the questions. This one nerve wracking experience caused me to take 8 0.5mg clonazapam just to calm down.

If this would have happened later in the day or on the weekend I would have been f-------d. This apartment on hot days can go up to 120 degrees fahrenheit without a/c or fans. Until the electrician came they were both out of service.

Is there anything I can do in the future to prevent this from happening again? Now, I need a beer---lol. Thanks for reading. Any responses would be appreciated.

 

[dajodo2]

You've been diagnosed with neurosis haven't you?

First off keep taking your meds, then find a nicer place to live.

Problem solved.

 

[Tarkus]

My question is whether my computer will be damaged from this? It seems to be working fine now as I had it plugged into a surgemaster with phone line protection power cord? However, the rca led clock radio that I had by my bed totally shorted out if that makes sense? I couldn't get the clock to work therefore I had to throw it out?

Is 15 amps the maximum amount of power that I should be using in the fuse box? The fuse box contains four slots. Right now it consists of 3 15 amp fuses and 1 30 amp fuse which seems to be used to run the stove if that makes sense? The super then cryptically said that only 3 of the fuse slots are actually working whatever that means? I live in an old building and he says that eventually all the fuse boxes have to be replaced.

To prevent this from happening again, should I turn off my window a/c before I go out? Will the burning smell coming from the fuse box eventually go away? Sorry for all the questions. This one nerve wracking experience caused me to take 8 0.5mg clonazapam just to calm down.

If this would have happened later in the day or on the weekend I would have been f-------d. This apartment on hot days can go up to 120 degrees fahrenheit without a/c or fans. Until the electrician came they were both out of service.

Is there anything I can do in the future to prevent this from happening again? Now, I need a beer---lol. Thanks for reading. Any responses would be appreciated.

First of all take any information provided with a grain of salt. Electrical issues are all over the place and in Ontario no one is even supposed to do simple fixes without being certified.

Second your computer is probably fine. The Surgemaster must have protected and then shut down the circuit saving your computer from being fried/under powered, (most computers have some limited protection in them anyway). If it works now then it is probably fine. A few hours of running it will tell the tale as it reaches its maximum heat.

Third do not play with the fuse amp size. 30 is standard for an oven but way too big for a standard circuit that runs regular devices. Remember the wiring for your stove is much more robust than the little cord than your computer, clock or even A/C. In your case it sounds as if 15 AMP is correct for the two slots, (and yes just because the box has 4 slots does not mean all are used.. for a bachelor 2 x 15 AMP sounds right), so do not put a bigger fuse in.

Fourth the A/C is almost certainly your culprit. Being as you have FUSES and not a circuit breaker your apartment is probably (must?) be pre-1970 so it was never designed for the A/C power surge or at worst is running near the limit. If you're using the A/C make sure you let it get fully cycled up and running for a few minutes before using any other devices. If you're out of the apartment then you should turn it off unless it is a very small BTU unit as I expect it can cool down the apartment very quickly anyway, (saves some energy too). One bad habit is changing the 'temperature' on the A/C while it is running. Oddly enough in many units this practice invokes a higher drain on the system than simply letting it start off at a higher desired setting and leaving it there.

Fifth the smell will go away but watch if happens again as it suggest there is an intermittent short or some other problem that needs a professional to look at it.

 

[HAMSTER INSPECTOR]

It is hard to say what the real situation realy is.

I will give it an educated guess.

- A burning smell coming from your fuse box is never a good sign. If it smells like burning plastic, I can only guess it might be the fuse box itself overheating. The fuse should have gone off long before this happens. If it smells like wood, then it may be the wires overheating. In both cases this might cause a fire.
- If at one point only half the appartment has power, I can only guess that a circuit has overloaded and the fuse blew.
- If the 2 sockets of the fuse box has burned to a crisp, this is not a good sign. It means that it has over heated to a point hwere the fuse box itself nearly caught on fire. The reason why it did not catch fire is that the fuse blew. You may not be so lucky next time.
- Is your computer damaged? You will have to use the computer and see if it acted out of the ordinary. The LED alarm clock being damaged is not a good sign, if you are lucky your computer may have gotten off without damge.
- If you have a 4 fuse/fuse box, it is very strange to have 3 fuses of 15 amps and 1 of 30 amps. I can only speculate that the wiring in your appartment is all for 15 amp circuits and that the 30 amp fuse may be very dangerous and should not be there. There were appartment that were wired in the 1950s where a 30 amp circuit was not wired in. In the 50, bachelor appartment dwellers were expected to use a hot plate and not have a stove.
- In your circumstance, I would not leave any major appliance on when you leave, you might come back to a burning building.
- The smell will linger in that fuse box for quite a while, althoght it may die down in time.

If I were you I would constatly complain to the owners that the fuses keep blowing every day or 2. ( even if you have to lie ) Eventualy an electrician will take a look at the wirig to ensure that everything is in order. Do not take any chances, it looks to me like a very dangerous situation. Hopefully they will replace your fuse box with a braker box.

Just a quick note, never place a penny into the fuse box to get it to work. Never replace a fuse with a fuse that is not of the original size. There are very dangerous things to do.

 

[Tarkus]

You've been diagnosed with neurosis haven't you?

First off keep taking your meds, then find a nicer place to live.

Problem solved.

Everyone is neurotic to some extent... so what is your point?

 

[oldjones]

Fuses 'blow'—actually a metal ribbon inside them melts—when there's too much electricity passing thru the circuit (the wire that goes from the box around to all the outlets, which is why it's a circuit) When it blows, no more electricity passes thru, and thus fires and such are prevented.

So you computer likely suffered only the unexpected shut down, since the powerbar protected it from the 'too much electricity' that blew the fuse. Too bad the radio wasn't as lucky.

15amps is the max for ordinary circuits feeding lights and outlets. High demand items , like a stove, are supposed to be supplied by heavier wire that can carry more juice, and so they have bigger fuses, although 30amp won't be supplying a very big stove. Never replace a burnt fuse with a higher-rated one. !5 is max for the 15 slots.

If only three circuits are working, then one of those fuses is doing nothing, and you should have some dead outlets, and or lights, or a dead stove. If you don't, you could unscrew each fuse in turn, see what goes out, (take notes) and prove him wrong. As long as you touch only the glass part of the fuse it should be perfectly safe. And if the fuse box is defective—not a bad deduction from what you say—your estate can sue.

To prvent this happening: Normally, you would do that by not plugging too many things into one circuit. Especially if one of those things draws as much electricity as a window AC. When it cycles on, it and the other things could suck enough juice to blow the fuse. That's why it's worth knowing which plugs are supplied by which fuse (see above), so you can hopefully plug the AC into a circuit it can have pretty much to itself.

However, the sparks and burning at the box that you described suggest the original problem was there, and not caused by you overloading a circuit. You watched the electrician and talked to the super. I trust you got assurances that everything was fixed and back to normal. i.e. that sort of thing won't happen again.

Bottom line: Fuses are supposed to blow, calmly, to keep you safe. You're supposed to 're-apportion the load' on that circuit so the replacement fuse doesn't blow too. Unless you have stuff coming on by itself—AC, fridge, The disco machine you put on a timer—fuses should not blow while you're out.

If nothing is actually burning, the smaell will eventually fade. Ask at the hardware store, there are deodorizing sprays. DO NOT spray them into the box.

Electricians are like plumbers and doctors, they all want to work 9-5, but somewhere there's one who can be convinced to come to you at any hour. You just gotta find the guy. So yes, given a sparking (probably shorted) fuse panel in the middle of the night, you probably would be SoL. If you or the super couldn't make safe by shutting off the power, you'd have to call the Fire Department. You might suggest that will be your next call if the super's reluctant to address the issue next time.

Good luck. Maybe you should cruise the DiY shelves at Indigo for a good basic Your Home and How to Fix Stuff In It book. Readers Digest used to put out a good one.

 

[RayFinkel]

Take out your fuses and replace them pennies wrapped in tinfoil.

You will get unlimited power.

 

[HAMSTER INSPECTOR]

The blood is on your hands.

Take out your fuses and replace them pennies wrapped in tinfoil.

You will get unlimited power.

The advice given by rayfinkel is very dangerous and should never be done.

Ray, any deaths or injuries that result from your advice is on your head. May St. Peter slamm the gates of heaven in your face on the day of judement.

 

[squash500]

Fourth the A/C is almost certainly your culprit. Being as you have FUSES and not a circuit breaker your apartment is probably (must?) be pre-1970 so it was never designed for the A/C power surge or at worst is running near the limit. If you're using the A/C make sure you let it get fully cycled up and running for a few minutes before using any other devices. If you're out of the apartment then you should turn it off unless it is a very small BTU unit as I expect it can cool down the apartment very quickly anyway.

Tarkus, thanks for the excellent advice . I think the building I live in must have been built in the 60's. The window a/c is a Danby 6300 BTU. I was using a 20 amp fuse originally for the a/c. This guy who I pass in the halls who used to live in the building who is a heating and cooling guy told me at the time that a 20 amp fuse was ok. I guess he was wrong. Looking at the a/c owners manual a 15 amp fuse is recommended.

Last thing, when the electrician was in my apt he called the super to reset the breaker on another floor whatever that means. My computer is working now so hopefully everything is ok with it--lol. Thanks again for for excellent response.

 

[squash500]

- A burning smell coming from your fuse box is never a good sign. If it smells like burning plastic, I can only guess it might be the fuse box itself overheating. The fuse should have gone off long before this happens. If it smells like wood, then it may be the wires overheating. In both cases this might cause a fire.
- If at one point only half the appartment has power, I can only guess that a circuit has overloaded and the fuse blew.
- If the 2 sockets of the fuse box has burned to a crisp, this is not a good sign. It means that it has over heated to a point hwere the fuse box itself nearly caught on fire. The reason why it did not catch fire is that the fuse blew. You may not be so lucky next time.
- Is your computer damaged? You will have to use the computer and see if it acted out of the ordinary. The LED alarm clock being damaged is not a good sign, if you are lucky your computer may have gotten off without damge.
- If you have a 4 fuse/fuse box, it is very strange to have 3 fuses of 15 amps and 1 of 30 amps. I can only speculate that the wiring in your appartment is all for 15 amp circuits and that the 30 amp fuse may be very dangerous and should not be there. There were appartment that were wired in the 1950s where a 30 amp circuit was not wired in. In the 50, bachelor appartment dwellers were expected to use a hot plate and not have a stove.
- In your circumstance, I would not leave any major appliance on when you leave, you might come back to a burning building.
- The smell will linger in that fuse box for quite a while, althoght it may die down in time

HI, thanks for your excellent response as well . The fuse box does smell like burning plastic. Sparks were flying with black burn marks in the inside of the circles where you insert the fuses. For one minute this morning, I thought my days on Terb had come to an end--lol. I really thought that the fuse box was going to start a fire in the apt.

The 30 amp fuse is for an old moffet deluxe stove that looks like it's from the 60's. There's a timer on the front of the stove that has been totally disabled whatever that means?

 

[squash500]

15amps is the max for ordinary circuits feeding lights and outlets. High demand items , like a stove, are supposed to be supplied by heavier wire that can carry more juice, and so they have bigger fuses, although 30amp won't be supplying a very big stove. Never replace a burnt fuse with a higher-rated one. !5 is max for the 15 slots.

Excellent advice and post. Thank you .

 

[squash500]

That is why he is a heating cooling guy & not an electrician

It would have been funny if it had caused a major fire because you acted on advice you got from an someone who obviously did not know their head from their ass.

You're 100% right . Ironically, the "real" electrician who hopefully fixed the problem today almost got himself in some trouble. When he unscrewed the fuse box some huge sparks were set off. Luckily, he was able to avoid the sparks.

The fuses I'm using are 15 amp type p fuses that I bought at shoppers drugmart--lol. WYD, where would you buy the fuse that was displayed in your pic? Thanks for your response as well!

 

[C Dick]

Could it be that the radio shorted first, and that is what caused the fuse to blow, rather than the other way around? In which case, you should be fine now. We used to have lots of fuses, but we replaced them with mini-breakers from Home Depot. They screw into the fuse socket, and are just as safe (as far as I know), but when they blow, you can just press the button to reset them, instead of having to unscrew and replace them.

 

[squash500]

Could it be that the radio shorted first

Cd, I don't think so . It was just a really small rca clock radio. Ironically, the radio was working after the power outage. However, the time on the clock could no longer be adjusted?

My super is a hard guy to deal with. Originally he said that an electrician couldn't show up until Monday. Very calmly---lol, I told him that would not be acceptable.

I find that apartment owners never want to fix anything unless you keep bugging the super. The whole process can get somewhat stressful.

 

[HAMSTER INSPECTOR]

Try this test.

Shut down, turn off, and unplug everything in your appartment, I mean everything. then unscrew and then screw back the fuse. The fuse should screww off and on with no incident. If you get a sparkor click noise when you do this, then there is a draw on your wiring that is a short or not coming from your appartment. This can be a ver dangerous situation becase you have a current draw that is unknown and not usual.

If the clock on your stove has stopped working, it couild be that the short is in your stove. Do a second test without the stove, and then a third test with the stove plugged in. If you get sparks when the stove is plugged in, then the problen is in the stove.

 

[tboy]

As Hammy said, if you want to be "safer" you can do this with gloves on (the thicker the better) this will prevent you from getting any shocks. The sparks flying which the electrician avoided aren't as dangerous as what was causing the sparks.

Once you find out what is plugged into what circuit you can then distribute your load more evenly. It does sound like you've got one circuit heavily loaded with the a/c and a bunch of other stuff and one circuit with probably only a desk light on it.

Believe me, it sounds dumb to have it wired this way but you wouldn't believe some of the crap that I've seen. I worked on a house once where 3 2nd floor bedrooms were on the same circuit as the rec and laundry room in the basement, The master bedroom on the same circuit as the living room and kitchen, the 2nd floor media room the same circuit as the diningroom and to top it off, there was an individual 20 amp circuit for the foyer with nothing on it except for a chandelier...it was a mess and a half.

As for dealing with your super, I have yet to find a super/property owner who treats his building and tenants with the respect they deserve. I am telling you this because what you're dealing with isn't unique. For that matter, I live in a condo building and the building manager totally disrespects us owners and has tried to bully many unit owners. He basically came out and said "his job is to protect the condo corporation" forgetting that us owners ARE the condo corporation.

If I were you I'd report this IMMEDIATELY to the Metro Toronto Housing Authority and maybe the Toronto Building Dept. There are listings of contact numbers at this site. I think they could point you in the right direction.

http://www.toronto.ca/building/fastrack.htm

The way I operate is this: building furniture, not dangerous. Plumbing? You can get wet, but not really dangerous. Drywall? Messy but not too dangerous. Electrical? Fuck, that will kill you if there's a problem therefore I DON'T fuck around with it and you shouldn't either. It sounds like you have a major problem that needs to be addressed NOW, not 3 yrs from now and I guarantee you if a building inspector finds out you had what is basically an electrical fire, things WILL be done immediately or the building occupancy permit will be pulled due to unsafe conditions......

 

[HAMSTER INSPECTOR]

If they do not move their asses, get the fire department involved. The life you save may be your own!

 

[squash500]

As for dealing with your super, I have yet to find a super/property owner who treats his building and tenants with the respect they deserve. I am telling you this because what you're dealing with isn't unique. For that matter, I live in a condo building and the building manager totally disrespects us owners and has tried to bully many unit owners. He basically came out and said "his job is to protect the condo corporation" forgetting that us owners ARE the condo corporation

Tboy, thanks for the response and for your help with the ceiling issue as well. Thanks to family support, I was able to move into this apartment 5 years ago which is in a nice area of toronto. I do pay market rent. To even get my ceiling properly fixed---replace drywall---I had to go in person to the by-law enforcement office in the north york city center and fill out a complaint form etc. For the management to fix the ceiling was a huge hassle.

I am really afraid of the super as he is aware that I have a learning disability and takes full advantage of the situation. Finally, one day I lost my cool and called him a f----- idiot in front of the owner---lol. That didn't help our super/tenant relationship very much. I am afraid to do the tests that yourself and H Inspector suggested because I am not very handy.

Thanks to you guys on terb, at least I am starting to learn a bit about electrical stuff. The super, landlord, electricians and contractors don't tell you a thing. they want you to be clueless and uninformed. The contractor who fixed my ceiling seemed to be surprised at the informed questions I was asking him about the ceiling. The only reason was because of the little bit of knowledge that I learned on terb---lol.

Today, everything seems to be working. The burning smell seems to be going away slowly. The super did say that all the fuse boxes are going to be replaced. Therefore, I guess the owner is aware of the problem. This building must have been constructed in the 1950's or 1960's? Thanks again for everyone's excellent responses and suggestions!

 

[Moraff]

If I were you I'd report this IMMEDIATELY to the Metro Toronto Housing Authority and maybe the Toronto Building Dept. There are listings of contact numbers at this site. I think they could point you in the right direction.

http://www.toronto.ca/building/fastrack.htm

The way I operate is this: building furniture, not dangerous. Plumbing? You can get wet, but not really dangerous. Drywall? Messy but not too dangerous. Electrical? Fuck, that will kill you if there's a problem therefore I DON'T fuck around with it and you shouldn't either. It sounds like you have a major problem that needs to be addressed NOW, not 3 yrs from now and I guarantee you if a building inspector finds out you had what is basically an electrical fire, things WILL be done immediately or the building occupancy permit will be pulled due to unsafe conditions......

I just want to agree w/Tboy on this. If there is a problem with your electrical panel and/or wiring - which, given the sparks from changing a fuse - there certainly appears to be, it must be addressed NOW. Ignoring the fact that leaving it be could kill you (or others) if it happens again, I think your insurance might be voided as you had knowledge of a potentially dangerous condition.

Don't leave this hanging!

 

[tboy]

I just want to agree w/Tboy on this. .......

You're going to have to stop doing that, people will begin to talk lol......

As for all the suggestions, no problem Squash. I am not one of those contractors who like to keep homeowners in the dark. When I'm onsite I actually encourage them to try to do it themselves and give them pointers etc on how to do it. In fact, recently a woman I did some work for used some of my tools and said "wow, this is what it's like using GOOD tools" so I gave her an older dewalt drill I had and some other things (that I had no use for any longer).

As for calling the super an effing idiot, don't worry about it. Remember: YOU'RE the customer and vacancy rates in Toronto are creeping up putting renters in the driver's seat.

I know it's a pain but I wouldn't hesitate to lodge another complaint about this. As others have stated: this isn't just an annoyance, this could be life threatening.......