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Got Oil?

onthebottom

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Thought this was interesting....


Got Oil?
by Pejman Yousefzadeh (More by this author)
Posted: 03/13/2007
Nearly 30 years ago, economist Julian Simon, who believed that Earth’s natural resources were infinite, and biologist Paul Ehrlich, who believed that Earth was going to run into massive scarcity problems decided to place a bet on their respective predictions. Ehrlich would get to select a number of any five metals he wanted with a value of $1,000 in 1980. If after ten years, the price of the metals was worth more than $1,000 after accounting for inflation, Ehrlich would be judged the winner. If smaller, Simon would win. Ehrlich took the bet.

He shouldn’t have. In 1990, Ehrlich was adjudged the loser of the bet and as the link points out, Ehrlich would have lost even if the price of the metals was not adjusted for inflation after ten years. It’s a good thing for Ehrlich that Simon did not offer to wager on Ehrlich’s statement that “If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000.” Who knows how much money Ehrlich would have lost on that proposition?

Paul Ehrlich’s famous pessimism concerning the scarcity of natural resources was typical of the times. Today’s successors to Ehrlich haven’t learned from his example. They are too busy propagating the theory of “peak oil.”
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The “peak oil” theory states that at a certain point in time, oil production will go into permanent decline. The dire warnings behind the movement are often cited by those who believe that humankind must make the switch from fossil fuels to alternative forms of energy. The current high price of a barrel of oil and the correspondingly high price of a gallon of gasoline is often cited as evidence that oil is reaching a point of scarcity. The smaller the amount of oil, the higher the price of an individual barrel of oil.

Now, having alternative forms of energy available is not a bad idea. In fact, if we gravitate towards a certain tried and true alternative form of energy -- namely, nuclear power -- the results could be quite beneficial indeed. But if we employ nuclear power as an alternative resource, it should be because of the advantages offered by nuclear power. It should not be because of any fear resulting from listening to the prophets of “peak oil” theory.

Put simply, “peak oil” is a bogus theory. Why? Because we are able to extract more oil from the Earth’s surface than ever before. Don’t believe me? Then read this:

The Kern River oil field, discovered in 1899, was revived when Chevron engineers here started injecting high-pressured steam to pump out more oil. The field, whose production had slumped to 10,000 barrels a day in the 1960s, now has a daily output of 85,000 barrels.

In Indonesia, Chevron has applied the same technology to the giant Duri oil field, discovered in 1941, boosting production there to more than 200,000 barrels a day, up from 65,000 barrels in the mid-1980s.

And in Texas, Exxon Mobil expects to double the amount of oil it extracts from its Means field, which dates back to the 1930s. Exxon, like Chevron, will use three-dimensional imaging of the underground field and the injection of a gas -- in this case, carbon dioxide -- to flush out the oil.

Within the last decade, technology advances have made it possible to unlock more oil from old fields, and, at the same time, higher oil prices have made it economical for companies to go after reserves that are harder to reach. With plenty of oil still left in familiar locations, forecasts that the world's reserves are drying out have given way to predictions that more oil can be found than ever before.

Don’t believe that? Then read this:

How much oil lies beneath the Earth's crust? The only thing we know for sure is that history is littered with estimates so far off the mark--usually below the mark--that they border on the comical. In the 1920s, for instance, the Anglo-Persian Oil Co. (now BP) refused to take a stake in Saudi Arabia, thinking that the country didn't hold a single drop of oil. In 1919, the U.S. Geological Survey predicted that the United States would run out of oil in nine years. Yet by the time nine years had passed, huge discoveries, topped by the Black Giant field in Texas, had created a massive oil glut that almost destroyed the industry. In the 1970s, the consensus turned grim again: oil production would peak in the mid-1980s and then drop precipitously. A famous CIA report predicted the "rapid exhaustion" of accessible fields, while President Jimmy Carter warned that oil wells were "drying up all over the world." Instead, in 1986, oil prices collapsed in the midst of a huge supply boom, as they had done many times before.

Now doomsday forecasts are back, predicting the end of oil in this decade or the next. The verdict of the new catastrophists may appear more convincing because they use statistical and probability models that appear to penetrate the mysteries of our planet's subsoil. In fact, they do no such thing. In sum, what little is known about the world's underground resources justifies a positive view of the future.

There are a lot more articles where that came from, all of which show that we are not even close to a situation where we need to worry about oil production peaking.
It’s true that the “peak oil” crowd doesn’t take into account the many different ways in which technological advances have enabled us to extract more oil from the Earth. But there is an even more fundamental flaw behind the “peak oil” argument; an inability by its proponents to understand basic economics. As economics professor Steven Levitt points out, oil is subject to the same laws of supply and demand that any other commodity is governed by. Because changes in supply and demand concerning a particular commodity are incremental in nature, prices may rise, but only a little bit. The increase in the price of a particular commodity does not constitute evidence that we are reaching a point where that commodity will be scarce. Indeed, as Levitt goes on to show, the very people who predict “peak oil” doom are forced to admit that there is a long history of oil prices crashing. If the high price of a barrel of oil means that “peak oil” is just around the corner, does the rock-bottom price of a barrel of oil mean that we have oil in abundance? I look forward to this admission being made when oil prices eventually drop -- as they always do in response to market demand.

Dramatic advances in the technology of oil extraction now allow us to increase the supply of oil available to us in ways unimaginable only a few years ago. Supply and demand issues are further dealt with by market incentives in order to alleviate supply problems. It’s a good thing for the advocates of “peak oil” that Julian Simon is no longer alive to offer them a friendly wager on whether their predictions might come true. Otherwise, they might find themselves significantly lighter in the wallet.

OTB
 

slowpoke

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Despite the long history of miscalculations about how long our oil reserves will last, it is still a finite commodity and we will eventually use it all up. The almost endless advances in extraction technology make it seem like the deposits of oil are infinite but we all know that they are not. Also, there is now the question of how much oil we can produce and burn before we destroy our environment. IMHO, the next big technological challenge will be finding ways to utilize our known reserves of oil without destroying our planet. There is no point in worrying about how much oil is left if we can't use it without climate calamity and drastic reductions in biodiversity. The world probably has too much oil for its own good.
 

red

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Nov 13, 2001
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slowpoke said:
Despite the long history of miscalculations about how long our oil reserves will last, it is still a finite commodity and we will eventually use it all up. The almost endless advances in extraction technology make it seem like the deposits of oil are infinite but we all know that they are not. Also, there is now the question of how much oil we can produce and burn before we destroy our environment. IMHO, the next big technological challenge will be finding ways to utilize our known reserves of oil without destroying our planet. There is no point in worrying about how much oil is left if we can't use it without climate calamity and drastic reductions in biodiversity. The world probably has too much oil for its own good.

thats right. unless we start extracting oil from off planet or develop a manufacturing technology for oil - the supply is finite. while erlech (sp?) may have lost the bet it does not mean that oil is in unlimited supply. Have the estimates been wrong- sure- thats why they are estimates. will there be new fields and new ways of getting oil- sure, but at the end of the day the supply is limited.


those links didn't work for me.
 

FOOTSNIFFER

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For the first time ever, oil use in the U.S. did not grow. Meanwhile, inventory levels of most grades of oil are rising. The law of supply and demand can't be repealed, even by well-intentioned environmentalists, so I'm still short oil at $40 a barrel. It's a great bet; nobody thinks oil's going to crash so buying puts is actually cheaper than their mathematical probabilities .... this trade is manna from heaven, so certain am I that it'll eventually work.
 

someone

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Jun 7, 2003
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It is not so much that the estimates have been wrong (although that is likely also true) but that reserves are a function of price. What are not reserves at a low price become reserves when price increases. However, you never really run out of a resource in an economic sense. As scarcity increases, price increases, with both makes new sources economical and give users an incentive to cut back and find substitutes. Once we used whale oil for lighting. Today, whale oil would be very uneconomical, so we use substitutes for it. Thus, I’m not going to lose any sleep at the thought of us running out of oil. Besides, the real price (adjusted for inflation) of oil is still lower than it was in the 1970s.
 

red

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Nov 13, 2001
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someone said:
Besides, the real price (adjusted for inflation) of oil is still lower than it was in the 1970s.

the interesting thing about this calculation, is that oil has been, at various times, the principal driver of inflation rates. so when you adjust for inflation you are adjusting for the price increasesin oil. what might be a better indicator is if the increase in the price of oil was less or more than the rate of inflation exlcuding oil price changes.
 

slowpoke

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FOOTSNIFFER said:
For the first time ever, oil use in the U.S. did not grow. Meanwhile, inventory levels of most grades of oil are rising. The law of supply and demand can't be repealed, even by well-intentioned environmentalists, so I'm still short oil at $40 a barrel. It's a great bet; nobody thinks oil's going to crash so buying puts is actually cheaper than their mathematical probabilities .... this trade is manna from heaven, so certain am I that it'll eventually work.
I'm too lazy to find links to support my opinion but I have seen plenty of articles that talk about projected increases in demand for oil because of the economic growth in India, China and elsewhere. I hope you've done your homework because I'd be betting on oil prices climbing steadily as demand grows worldwide. Whenever production starts to outstrip demand, the producers will just reduce the flow of oil until prices are back within the desired range. Prices aren't driven how much oil or gas COULD have been produced. They are driven by how much oil or gas is currently available. It is legal price fixing IMHO.
 

red

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Nov 13, 2001
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red said:
the interesting thing about this calculation, is that oil has been, at various times, the principal driver of inflation rates. so when you adjust for inflation you are adjusting for the price increasesin oil. what might be a better indicator is if the increase in the price of oil was less or more than the rate of inflation exlcuding oil price changes.

the exchange rate changes during the same period would also have to be factored into this to get a real analysis.
 

someone

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red said:
the interesting thing about this calculation, is that oil has been, at various times, the principal driver of inflation rates. so when you adjust for inflation you are adjusting for the price increasesin oil. what might be a better indicator is if the increase in the price of oil was less or more than the rate of inflation exlcuding oil price changes.
I'll let you do the work but I don't think you will still find oil is cheaper now in real terms. The energy components are more volatile than other components but tend to move in the same direction. Still, feel free to undertake your analysis and report back here. If you check the Bank of Canada’s web site, you will likely find data on what they call often call “core inflation” which is the CPI with the more volatile components (e.g. food and engery) taken out. If you can’t find it on the Bank of Canada’s web site try Statscan. Given the time involved, you may have to convert to different base years a couple of times but that is not too hard to do. I’m pretty sure that you will find that oil is still cheaper today than the peaks of the 1970s but I’ll be interested if you don’t.

Also, I’m wondering if you are blaming the inflation in the 1970s on oil prices when they were more a result of expansionary monetary policy (which were a mistaken response to the oil price shocks but given that in hindsight, they were a mistaken response, should not really claim that the oil price shocks were to blame for the high inflation).

red said:
the exchange rate changes during the same period would also have to be factored into this to get a real analysis.
Not really, as the CPI would already measure the domestic price of oil in terms of domestic currency.

Edit: I just remembered that the Canadian government was heavily subsidizing oil at the time so it might be best use the international price and not the Canadian price. Given oil is quoted in U.S. dollars, it might be easiest to just use U.S. inflation rates.
 

red

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Nov 13, 2001
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someone said:
I'll let you do the work but I don't think you will still find oil is cheaper now in real terms. The energy components are more volatile than other components but tend to move in the same direction. Still, feel free to undertake your analysis and report back here. If you check the Bank of Canada’s web site, you will likely find data on what they call often call “core inflation” which is the CPI with the more volatile components (e.g. food and engery) taken out. If you can’t find it on the Bank of Canada’s web site try Statscan. I’m pretty sure that you will find that oil is still cheaper today than the peaks of the 1970s but I’ll be interested if you don’t.

Also, I’m wondering if you are blaming the inflation in the 1970s on oil prices when they were more a result of expansionary monetary policy (which where a mistaken response to the oil price shocks but given that in hindsight, they were a mistaken response, should not really claim that the oil price shocks were to blame for the high inflation).

I am not sure what the result will be, but I think its the best way to do this analysis is to isolate the oil fluctuations from the other inflationary factors. I will take a look at the BoC and see if I can figure it out. thanks
 

someone

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red said:
I am not sure what the result will be, but I think its the best way to do this analysis is to isolate the oil fluctuations from the other inflationary factors. I will take a look at the BoC and see if I can figure it out. thanks
I think you're a bit off base here anyway. Ideally what you want to do is see if a 197? dollar will buy more or else oil than a 2007 dollar. In addition, you can really isolate the effects as the price of oil effects many other components (e.g. transportation, food prices, etc). You really just want to see of the price of oil is rising faster or slower than the general price level. However, I don't think the results will varry if you bias things a bit by excluding oil. See what happens.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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someone said:
I think you're a bit off base here anyway. Ideally what you want to do is see if a 197? dollar will buy more or else oil than a 2007 dollar. However, I don't think the results will varry if you bias things a bit by excluding oil. See what happens.
i might be - I have been wrong many times. I just prefer to figures things out for myself and not just accept what is reported in the media or the internet.
 

FOOTSNIFFER

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slowpoke said:
I'm too lazy to find links to support my opinion but I have seen plenty of articles that talk about projected increases in demand for oil because of the economic growth in India, China and elsewhere. I hope you've done your homework because I'd be betting on oil prices climbing steadily as demand grows worldwide. Whenever production starts to outstrip demand, the producers will just reduce the flow of oil until prices are back within the desired range. Prices aren't driven how much oil or gas COULD have been produced. They are driven by how much oil or gas is currently available. It is legal price fixing IMHO.
Alot ot the current price is anticipating the growth in India and Chinese demand. But one thing you may not be aware of is that chinese demand was a stopgap measure to allow for the explosive growth in energy consumption that was required to produce all that 'stuff' we buy from them. In other words, because it takes years to build coal/nuclear/hydroelectric power plants, they substituted readily available but expensive crude to generate power for the manufacturing plant they built.

So, since energy use in the large consumer, western countries like the U.S. and Europe is NOT growing, for the first time ever, then the 'growth' premium that's priced into the oil price is unusually dependant on ch/ind. But china is basically already replacing imports used for power generation with that directed for transportation (cars). The market thinks that power oil + transport oil = ever increasing oil imports into china......I disagree. Oil prices are also pretty vulnerable to a shock from a recession slowdown. So, the odds are down, not up for me.
 

slowpoke

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FOOTSNIFFER said:
Alot ot the current price is anticipating the growth in India and Chinese demand. But one thing you may not be aware of is that chinese demand was a stopgap measure to allow for the explosive growth in energy consumption that was required to produce all that 'stuff' we buy from them. In other words, because it takes years to build coal/nuclear/hydroelectric power plants, they substituted readily available but expensive crude to generate power for the manufacturing plant they built.

So, since energy use in the large consumer, western countries like the U.S. and Europe is NOT growing, for the first time ever, then the 'growth' premium that's priced into the oil price is unusually dependant on ch/ind. But china is basically already replacing imports used for power generation with that directed for transportation (cars). The market thinks that power oil + transport oil = ever increasing oil imports into china......I disagree. Oil prices are also pretty vulnerable to a shock from a recession slowdown. So, the odds are down, not up for me.

I also remember reading about bicycle lanes in China being eliminated to make way for all those cars. Long term, I'm betting on increased demand for oil. Just MHO.
 

assoholic

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..any-one at this point who at least is not becoming aware of the importance of oil is a moron.
 

onthebottom

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assoholic said:
..any-one at this point who at least is not becoming aware of the importance of oil is a moron.
Oh, I think we've all been aware of the importance of oil for a long time now.....

OTB
 

onthebottom

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assoholic said:
..um who exactly is this "we", you are speaking for ?
Those of us old enough to have a mortgage and smart enough to afford to pay it.

OTB
 

assoholic

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onthebottom said:
Those of us old enough to have a mortgage and smart enough to afford to pay it.

OTB
..there are few here who agree with much of anything you post.
 

onthebottom

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assoholic said:
..there are few here who agree with much of anything you post.
What's your point?

OTB
 
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