Toronto Passions

Harper breaks another promise

ottawasub

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Just so nobody can accuse this of being a plot from the "liberal media", I took the article directly from the Conservatives own newspaper:

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2006/04/20/1541427-sun.html

Canadians must "get used to" high prices at the pumps, Prime Minister Stephen Harper warned yesterday as he offered scant relief to fuming motorists.

While in Opposition, Harper vowed to stop applying the GST on top of the 10% federal excise tax and provincial gas levies and pledged to cap the GST on gas prices that exceed 85cents a litre. Harper said he's not bound by past promises
What a leader!
 

The Mugger

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ottawasub said:
Just so nobody can accuse this of being a plot from the "liberal media", I took the article directly from the Conservatives own newspaper:

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2006/04/20/1541427-sun.html


What a leader!
Your surprised with this busted promise - he made it in Toronto to sway votes he didn't get and being the mean spirited prick that he is, he will punish all of Canadian for Toronto's treachery.
 

gramage

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it seems our would be President has let the power go to his head in record time. He appoints unelected officials to elected posts, appoints senators after vowing that he never would, he goes back on a reform he led to make heads of commissions appointed again (unless of course you want to go against your leaders demands), he muzzles his whole party so that only he is free to speak, and now this. at this point I think I'd even vote natural law if it got him out of power.
 

Fred Zed

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Stephen Harper Biography

gramage said:
it seems our would be President has let the power go to his head in record time. He appoints unelected officials to elected posts, appoints senators after vowing that he never would, he goes back on a reform he led to make heads of commissions appointed again (unless of course you want to go against your leaders demands), he muzzles his whole party so that only he is free to speak, and now this.
We told you so. The new Stephen Harper biography just published should help boost his image a little bit:http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=f10ce31a-981c-4333-83e4-b0d3cc5024cd&k=40666
I wonder how many copies it will sell.
 

21pro

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The Mugger said:
Your surprised with this busted promise - he made it in Toronto to sway votes he didn't get and being the mean spirited prick that he is, he will punish all of Canadian for Toronto's treachery.
yes. this is the way it happened. however nice it sounds if he did cut the gst, it isn't the most important objective right now across canada... rather, it is important in gas guzzling areas such as the gta...

consider examples such as in thunder bay, where people are paying $1.23/litre... but, most have a less than 10 minute drive to work.
 

Bud Plug

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I can only conclude one of two things from this thread, and similar comments in the media, either: 1) logic is a lost discipline, or 2) Liberal political power is more important than truth.

First of all, like everyone else I'd like to see lower gas prices, whether by reducing taxes or, more importantly, ending the anti-competitive price fixing practices of the major oil companies.

However, the simple story on Harper's "promise" is this. It was not an election promise. Election promises are the ones which the public should hold politicians accountable for. Harper did make election promises about tax reduction. He promised across the board GST reduction, not just on gas. Obviously, his earlier position was limited to gas only. In fact, that gas tax relief would be less than the total tax relief he promised during the election.

The logic behind the criticism of Harper is a lot like this. Imagine I'm offering to hire you. At first I offer 50K and a company car. You turn it down, saying that salary is the most important thing to you, and 50K is just not enough. Therefore, I revise my offer and propose 75K with no benefits. You take the job. On the logic of Harper's critics, after starting work you would turn around and say "Hey, where's that company car you promised!".

We all would like lower gas prices, but it's not necessary to butcher logic to advocate for them.
 

Fred Zed

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It's not just gas prices that are at issue

Bud Plug said:
I can only conclude one of two things from this thread, and similar comments in the media, either: 1) logic is a lost discipline, or 2) Liberal political power is more important than truth.

First of all, like everyone else I'd like to see lower gas prices, whether by reducing taxes or, more importantly, ending the anti-competitive price fixing practices of the major oil companies.

We all would like lower gas prices, but it's not necessary to butcher logic to advocate for them.
As motorists fume over soaring prices at the pumps, Liberal House Leader Ralph Goodale said his party will hold Harper to account for backtracking on promised tax relief.

Last week the PM abandoned past pledges and said a GST break is the only relief in store for consumers.

"What you've got developing on this issue and on a whole variety of other issues -- whether it's a lobbyist running the department of National Defence, a Senator running Public Works from the Senate or the David Emerson issue -- there is a pattern of flip-flopping that I think is going to be a problem for this government," Goodale said. "They were so self-righteous and so sanctimonious in Opposition and now they're reversing themselves on a whole series of pretty important issues.":
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/National/2006/04/24/1547468-sun.html
 

Bud Plug

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Fred Zed said:
"What you've got developing on this issue and on a whole variety of other issues -- whether it's a lobbyist running the department of National Defence, a Senator running Public Works from the Senate or the David Emerson issue -- there is a pattern of flip-flopping that I think is going to be a problem for this government," Goodale said. "They were so self-righteous and so sanctimonious in Opposition and now they're reversing themselves on a whole series of pretty important issues.":
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/National/2006/04/24/1547468-sun.html
I don't know which is more ironic, the Liberal position that Conservatives should attempt to govern beyond the 5 priorities (imagine an opposition party asking a minority government to govern more!) or the fact that Liberal political thought is so corrupt that they can't distinguish between their misdeeds and the things they accuse the Conservatives of doing.

Belinda Stronach vs. David Emerson

The Liberals courted Stronach when a single seat meant a considerable difference in political leverage. She didn't have any significant shadow cabinet responsibility in opposition. She had no political experience and no cabinet experience. What the Liberals did looked very much like buying political leverage with the granting of a cabinet position to someone who, on merit, could not be said to deserve the position. All of this clearly undermines the democratic process.

The defection of Emerson did nothing to change the balance of power in the house. Emerson was clearly qualified to be offered a cabinet position based on his experience. The Conservatives appear to have courted him based on competence to do the job.

The Liberal inability to acknowledge the difference between these two situations (despite my view that everyone should have to run in a by-election if they wish to cross the floor) demonstrates their lack of respect for democracy. Obviously, they still don't recognize the error of their ways. Best to keep them out in the political wilderness a bit longer till it sinks in.
 
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gramage

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Bud Plug said:
Election promises are the ones which the public should hold politicians accountable for.
when is a politician not courting votes? any promise made is a promise that should be kept, unless you admit that your changing your position.

And on the Emerson thing, the difference is he never served a day of the mandate he was given. Belinda served, disliked her party and left. Emerson decision was an admission that he is only willing to serve for a governing party regardless of belief.
 

Bud Plug

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gramage said:
when is a politician not courting votes? any promise made is a promise that should be kept, unless you admit that your changing your position.
For goodness sakes, isn't it clear enough that the Conservative tax relief package has changed since two years ago?! Honestly, if this criticism about unfulfilled promises was coming primarily from Conservative supporters, it would make a lot more sense. But it isn't.

gramage said:
And on the Emerson thing, the difference is he never served a day of the mandate he was given. Belinda served, disliked her party and left. Emerson decision was an admission that he is only willing to serve for a governing party regardless of belief.
If you think that this distinction is more important than the one I raised, I don't think we have any common ground for a discussion. Needless to say, I don't think the motivations of the politician crossing the floor are nearly as important as the motivations of the party which has courted him/her.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts