Human trafficking

[Creative Eye]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...8/massage_raid_061208/20061208?hub=TopStories

If any of you who still think that these cheap $80 Asian incalls aren't using slave labour think again. You probably don't think global warming is happening either!

 

[papasmerf]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061208/massage_raid_061208/20061208?hub=TopStories

If any of you who still think that these cheap $80 Asian incalls aren't using slave labour think again. You probably don't think global warming is happening either!

Huge difference between slavery and the sky is falling.

 

[bigshot]

I think that this is an important issue to TERBites. I believe that most of us do not intentionally take advantage of underaged SPs or girls who are not in control of their lives. We typically despise the pimps and users.

If this large bust in Vancouver is any indication, there are not only too many cases of girls who are endentured, but it appears that they are being investigated as well.

Does anyone really want to be involved in a bust where the girls are portrayed as captive workers? This is probably why I have always tended to stay with well known indies and as much as the Chinese lovlies look tempting, I'm a little uneasy with the whole environmet.

bigshot

 

[KBear]

bigshot & Creative Eye, could either of you quote from the article where it says they found slaves, or underage girls. Looks like you two have an agenda, and are making up news.

 

[fuji]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...8/massage_raid_061208/20061208?hub=TopStories

If any of you who still think that these cheap $80 Asian incalls aren't using slave labour think again. You probably don't think global warming is happening either!

Uh, did you read the article? How about this quote: "Rossington later reported that none of the women have since asked for help. And because none have said they were exploited, it's unclear how police will proceed in their investigation"

Note that "human trafficking" is NOT the same as "slave labour". In particular, this article and other start out talking about slave labour but wind up talking about "human trafficking". Very different things, but the article is written to make you think the "800-1200" cases of human trafficking are all about sexual slavery. Wrong. Trafficking refers to any situation where one person is paid to help another person immigrate illegally, especially for the purpose of prostitution. If a woman in another country decides that she wants to be a prostitute in Canada and hires someone to help her get here that counts as trafficking--in the vast majority of these cases the transported person instigated the whole thing.

If you read this article that comes through pretty clearly. There are so many women who are interested in working as prostitutes in Canada that there's no reason to take on the risk of forcing someone to do it against their will. That just ups the cost of doing business for no reason. Why risk jail time forcing someone to do something they don't want to when there are lots of other women who are willing to do it, and will pay you good money to help them do it?

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

I just saw a follow up report on CTVnewsnet. Despite all of the arrests, not one single charge yet. All of the women were in the country legally, none were under-aged, and apparently most (or maybe all?) have been released. It seems many of the MPs have already re-opened and many of the women are back at work.
This sounds similar to the night three years ago when police visited all 350 MPs in the GTA in one evening, apparently re-acting to Victor Malarek's book which made some gullible people assume there must be hundreds of 14-year-old Moldovan girls handcuffed to radiators and held prisoner by armed guards in Toronto area parlours.

 

[papasmerf]

I just saw a follow up report on CTVnewsnet. Despite all of the arrests, not one single charge yet. All of the women were in the country legally, none were under-aged, and apparently most (or maybe all?) have been released. It seems many of the MPs have already re-opened and many of the women are back at work.
This sounds similar to the night three years ago when police visited all 350 MPs in the GTA in one evening, apparently re-acting to Victor Malarek's book which made some gullible people assume there must be hundreds of 14-year-old Moldovan girls handcuffed to radiators and held prisoner by armed guards in Toronto area parlours.

One of the common mistakes is people ignoring orginazied crime.. The tend to believe that police and district attorneys are stupid but honest. Humman trafficing does nt occur because bubba wants to sell his baby siter. It is a very organized and profitable crime. But it takes money to make money. So bribes for lack of a better term are commonplace. You have to consider this a crime of treason when you consider the players involved.

 

[whitewaterguy]

while your at it

bigshot & Creative Eye, could either of you quote from the article where it says they found slaves, or underage girls. Looks like you two have an agenda, and are making up news.

could you also take the time to post some definitive and scientifically sound research articles which prove that global warming is indeed happening?

 

[papasmerf]

could you also take the time to post some definitive and scientifically sound research articles which prove that global warming is indeed happening?

deal with the facts that human traficing is a major problem and it involves bribes

 

[fuji]

deal with the facts that human traficing is a major problem and it involves bribes

What is the actual problem though? Is it just that our immigration rules are too restrictive and should be relaxed so these women can come here legally and above board?

My take on it is this, still: There are many women who are willing to do this work, and it's simply much cheaper for an organization to use willing participants than unwilling ones. Unwilling participants incur direct extra costs (to control them, watch them, etc.) and on top of that you can consider the risk of arrest as an extra cost. So an organization that uses unwilling women as prostitutes is simply not going to be economically viable--it won't be able to compete on price with one staffed by willing prostitutes.

The only aspect of the sex trade where you might find unwilling women would be deeply underground places that traffick underage women and bill them out as underage to their customers. None of those places would be advertising on terb; they'd absolutely maintain a lower profile and knowledge about them would likely be restricted to criminals and pedophiles. Advertising in EYE Magazine is simply too high profile, too risky, for someone engaged in a crime like that. For the relatively high profile places we discuss on here that advertise and such they're unlikely to want to take that risk.

 

[bigshot]

MP Busts

bigshot & Creative Eye, could either of you quote from the article where it says they found slaves, or underage girls. Looks like you two have an agenda, and are making up news.

I don't know all of the facts regarding this situation. My point was not to claim that these girls are being used as slave labour either. I don't know. I only want to state that I do, on accaision, wonder where all of these ladies are coming from. If they are being coerced into the business, this is wrong. I did state that I did not want to be associated with girls who work for pimps or against their will. I'm sure that I am in the majority on this point.

We all know that pimps are out there taking advantage of some of the LFs in this business, and I do wonder if this is the case with so many of the cheap asian incall places that seem to be popping up. I have no interest in tarring them all with the same brush. Only stating that it is something that would concern me personally if I ever came across this situation in my hobbying. If you don't think that this has ever happened, then no problem...but let's not pretend that this is a business that has never taken advantage of girls who may not have the same freedom of choice that we might wish for them. That would be naieve.

bigshot

 

[pritty_kitten]

well as an avid oprah fan, i can say that alot of women, from asia or even eastern europe have been brought here in hopes of a better life only to be used in prostitution rings. ive even heard of some that buy the womens passports and hold them hostage until there debt has been paid. didnt they have a made for tv movie about this? anyway, there is something like 2million women (many under 18) who are trafficked around the world every year, dont you think that they are found here in canada? this is not something that many even dreaming of happening here, but believe it. the notion may not be palatable, but best not be naive. next time you are hobbying with a lady, keep that in mind! i know they hobbyists in this forum have only the best intentions, but remember this story and be aware of what you are partaking in. how long can we plead ignorance?

pk

 

[pritty_kitten]

just one more thing, i promise!

im responsible for hiring ladies in the spa i work at, and when i get a whiff that a girl is being pimped, i dont book her clients and she can expect to get her shifts cut, and taken of the schedual shortly thereafter

 

[pritty_kitten]

What is the actual problem though? Is it just that our immigration rules are too restrictive and should be relaxed so these women can come here legally and above board?

when have u ever known canada's immigration rules to be too restrictive? comon

 

[fuji]

when have u ever known canada's immigration rules to be too restrictive? comon

Our immigration rules are plainly screwed up. Sure we are too lax in some areas, especially the area of refugee claims, but really people are abusing the refugee system mostly because we are too restrictive in other areas. If an "illegal immigrant" who came here under some bogus claim is working in a productive job and contributing to the economy don't you think we ought to have had a category under which that person could have arrived legally?

Here's another braindead one--why do we make it so tough for foreign students to get jobs and stay here? Isn't a graduate from a Canadian university who has lived here for four years and is now well educated EXACTLY the sort of person we'd want to have immigrate to Canada? But oh no, we put heavy restrictions on their ability to work part time and support themselves while in school, and we force them to return home if they can't find a job "in their field" within a few months of graduating.

Next thing you know they are filing a fake marriage application or a refugee claim in some hopes of staying and contributing to a country they've grown to like... demented.

 

[rama putri]

when have u ever known canada's immigration rules to be too restrictive? comon

You are confusing the laws versus the ease of getting into the country. These are two different thinngs. It is easy to get into the country. It is difficult once you are here illegally to do anything but work for cash. For a young woman, that's a few options and since we men only value young women for sex, you get what she's going to be doing to eat and pay the bills.

 

[fuji]

I did state that I did not want to be associated with girls who work for pimps or against their will. I'm sure that I am in the majority on this point.

Absolutely. I am sure an overwhelming number of customers feel that way, which is one reason why I doubt any public agency would risk using women who were co-erced--all she has to do is tell a few of her customers about her plight and in all probability she'll find that someone is willing to help her. If I found an SP that was being co-erced, if it was outcall I'd call the police and have her driver arrested. If it was incall I'd leave, then return with the police (so that I am not "found in").

I do wonder if this is the case with so many of the cheap asian incall places that seem to be popping up.

Why don't you ask them? I speak mandarin. Whenever I encounter a mandarin speaking SP I always ask them about their situation. I like to hear the story anyway and it's a good way of breaking the ice.

The last asian SP I talked to that just set up a new incall is a pair of Korean girls. They paid their own plane ticket over here and set up the incall themselves. They are students back in Korea and they want the money to pay for school and would rather do this job over here to where nobody they know will find out about it.

When these women pay someone to help them get to Canada and set up the working environment when they arrive here they are considered "trafficked" and then they get reported on CTV as if they were somehow victims. If the woman approached an organization and said "Hey I want to work as a prostitute in Canada can you arrange it for me", how is she a victim? Yet the way it's reported: "Illegal immigrant trafficked into Canada by organized crime group to work as a prostitute" you would never get the idea maybe she WANTED to be here.

Maybe if we offered work visas to anyone who wanted to work as a prostitute these organized crime groups would go away. Women wouldn't need them anymore.

Canadian dollars go a long way in Korea and China, and there are LOTS of women over there who are willing to do this kind of work in exchange for the kind of money they can take back to their home country with them. Lots of them come over on visitor visa's, work a few months, and return to their home country with a pile of cash. Not only can they make more here than in their home country, way more, but they feel that nobody back home will find out what they did.

Again, unless it's already something highly illegal like underage prostitution, I just don't see why anybody in this industry would need to co-erce anyone when there are so many women willing to do it voluntarily.

 

[hapkido]

As I said before the media blows things out of proportion with sensational headlines to bring in readers.

You need to do your own due diligence. I totally agree and have similar experiences ..what Fuji is saying. There will be always good and bad places.


There are a ton of cheap asian incalls because in the last 5 years because many immigrated from china buying into the canadian dream. Also lots of university students doing this part-time. Also many travel to specifically make money here.


P.S. Fuji Gee me thinks I know those 2 koreans sps you are talking about!

P.S.2 Everyone should know by now the media cannot be trusted. Everyone has an agenda and a bias.

 

[goodtime]

The last asian SP I talked to that just set up a new incall is a pair of Korean girls. They paid their own plane ticket over here and set up the incall themselves. They are students back in Korea and they want the money to pay for school and would rather do this job over here to where nobody they know will find out about it.

Many SPs use that story. Girls set-up shop in hotels or short-term apartments. Few are genuine young girls with spending habits.

The big push is crackdown in Korea & China, so many go overseas. The wave travel from West to East & South US to North. You hear about the Oakland, Texas, NYC crackdowns... Whenever a city tighten up, they move on.

Same deal in EU with EE girls moving country to country. What's surprising to law-enforcement & advocates are how many doing it willingly.

Many chasing the fast cash & retire dream.

 

[fuji]

Many chasing the fast cash & retire dream.

Yeah, well, I think they probably believe what they say. I've heard lots of unrealistic expectations about the future not only from SP's, MPA's, and strippers, but also from practically anyone under the age of 25. Having unrealistic expectations doesn't make them unwilling participants. Some of them are realistic too--some do use the money for school, some do start businesses, some do save up a lot--maybe not enough to retire on, but certainly a good nest egg that enables them to pay off a house. With that in hand they can take on some lesser paying job and not worry about retirement saving so much.

I do agree that there are a bunch who let the fast money slip through their fingers. Whenever I encounter an SP who is new to the business I always sit down at the end of the session and tell her about all the SP's I've met who have been working for a few years and who have nothing, and about how some others work a few years and then disappear with lots of savings. I tell them to make a savings plan, and stick to it. I hope they listen.