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Independent leads in Nebraska Senate Race

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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So out of curiosity, what makes him "a real progressive" in your eyes?

(His electoral maneuvering is something I presume you aren't interested in.)
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Ya, not going to get drawn in. So the point is the Dems had no chance but an independent with more left policy goals is likely too.

So why is that do you think?
Because the brand "Democrat" is toxic in Nebraska.
It's ruby red, but people are fed up with one-party Republican rule.


That's why a middle-of-the-road Independent can run as long as he doesn't put a D by his name.
I believe Osborne himself even said his run is a bit of an experiment about whether you can run on mostly Democratic policies as long as you don't have the party name in Nebraska.
(And since it seems he is a pretty good strategist, he also maneuvered carefully to freeze out other third parties and also the Dems themselves, which may end up backfiring for him depending on how those groups view his tactics. There was already a broad "not-Fischer" coalition, so did his playing hardball alienate people unnecessarily or are people just going to suck it up as him playing smart to try and prevent any last-minute moves against him?)

As that policy list shows, he has some populist planks, some conservative ones, and is definitely running a local campaign.
He'd sort of be the new Joe Manchin - much, much better than the Republican alternative but frustrating to people wanting to pass a more aggressive agenda.

That's assuming he even caucuses with the Democrats, since he's made noise about siding with either side (or neither).
Presumably he would decide based on whatever gives him the most leverage personally.
(In the still-unlikely case he wins.)
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Because the brand "Democrat" is toxic in Nebraska.
It's ruby red, but people are fed up with one-party Republican rule.


That's why a middle-of-the-road Independent can run as long as he doesn't put a D by his name.
I believe Osborne himself even said his run is a bit of an experiment about whether you can run on mostly Democratic policies as long as you don't have the party name in Nebraska.
(And since it seems he is a pretty good strategist, he also maneuvered carefully to freeze out other third parties and also the Dems themselves, which may end up backfiring for him depending on how those groups view his tactics. There was already a broad "not-Fischer" coalition, so did his playing hardball alienate people unnecessarily or are people just going to suck it up as him playing smart to try and prevent any last-minute moves against him?)

As that policy list shows, he has some populist planks, some conservative ones, and is definitely running a local campaign.
He'd sort of be the new Joe Manchin - much, much better than the Republican alternative but frustrating to people wanting to pass a more aggressive agenda.

That's assuming he even caucuses with the Democrats, since he's made noise about siding with either side (or neither).
Presumably he would decide based on whatever gives him the most leverage personally.
(In the still-unlikely case he wins.)
Ever wonder why the Dems are so toxic?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
37,133
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Yet the union guy is winning. Go figure!
He's actually more around tied from what the polling shows.
But as everyone has noted, far more competitive than people might have thought.

You sure you actually understand? How about maybe they prefer people who just might say what they mean.
He's running an excellent campaign.
Just enough policy to have a sense of his positions without committing to anything.
Hardball political tactics to shore up his position as the only "non-Fischer" candidate and take full advantage of the two-party nature of the elections.
Conservative enough in his positions to still have support in the state, but far better on lots of things than Fischer would be.

No voting history so he can claim anything and no one can attack him on it, plus he gets to run as an "outsider".

It's all been very smart.
If he ends up as the Joe Manchin of the next Senate and somehow keeps the GOP from controlling the Senate it will be a net win.

I'm all in favor of him.

I just notice you still haven't even tried to explain what makes him a "true progressive" given his actual stated positions.

Unless, of course, your criteria for "progressive" is "anyone who isn't an official member of the Democratic party".
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,284
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He's actually more around tied from what the polling shows.
But as everyone has noted, far more competitive than people might have thought.



He's running an excellent campaign.
Just enough policy to have a sense of his positions without committing to anything.
Hardball political tactics to shore up his position as the only "non-Fischer" candidate and take full advantage of the two-party nature of the elections.
Conservative enough in his positions to still have support in the state, but far better on lots of things than Fischer would be.

No voting history so he can claim anything and no one can attack him on it, plus he gets to run as an "outsider".

It's all been very smart.
If he ends up as the Joe Manchin of the next Senate and somehow keeps the GOP from controlling the Senate it will be a net win.

I'm all in favor of him.

I just notice you still haven't even tried to explain what makes him a "true progressive" given his actual stated positions.

Unless, of course, your criteria for "progressive" is "anyone who isn't an official member of the Democratic party".

It's right in there. Can't you see it?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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It's right in there. Can't you see it?
Pretty middle-of-the road Democratic positions on the few things he is posting on.
Nothing radical.
Which makes sense, since he is running in Nebraska.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,284
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So again, since you chickened out immediately when challenged on this...
What's the policy here that makes him a "true progressive" and so obviously different from Democrats?

It's right there dude. Start with term limits.......work your way up. You think 80 year old Nancy Pelosi and any other Democrats support that?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
37,133
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It's right there dude. Start with term limits.......work your way up. You think 80 year old Nancy Pelosi and any other Democrats support that?
Term limits isn't a progressive policy position.

Going through his list working up -

Keep Government Out of Our Private Lives
--> Reasonable gun control laws and in favor of a return to a pre-Dobbs status quo on abortion, more or less. (He's signaled support for codifying Roe federally in other interviews). Reducing unwanted pregnancies. (So good sex ed and so on.)
That's all mainstream Democrat.

Reform Railroad Safety
- > Increased regulation and federal enforcement.
That's all mainstream Democrat.

Protect Middle-Class Jobs and Wages
- > PRO act
- > Better bereavement and sick leave
- > $12 hour minimum wage
That's all mainstream Democrat, although obviously many Democrats want a higher Federal minimum wage.

Lower Taxes on Overtime Wages
-> Overtime wages should not bump a taxpayer into a higher bracket. Additionally, for the purposes of calculating eligibility for any income-related benefits, overtime wages should not be included.

Not sure how the first part is to be accomplished, and that obviously isn't a progressive policy.
The second part is more promising and there is definitely something interesting to look at there.

End Wasteful Government Handouts to the Pharmaceutical Industry
-> Doesn't really say what he means by this. It's just "Pharma getting lots of money in the pandemic was bad".

Would need real meat on the bones to assess it.

Legalize Cannabis
-> Remove from Schedule 1 (a bit unclear on whether legalized or decriminalized).

Pretty common Democratic position, although not the obvious majority of the party yet.

A Secure Border for a Secure Country
-> Pretty handwavy, but "do something better" language.

Basically everyone in Congress right now, no details although he has made noise he would have supported the bipartisan law the GOP killed earlier this year.

A Level Playing Field for Family Farms and Ranches
--> Nebraska-specific, but includes anti-monopoly moves and right to repair.

Anti-trust aspects. I don't know enough about the crop insurance to know how easy "fix it" is, but fights over the subsidies are pretty common.
The Right to Repair is niche, but growing (and bi-partisan). Supporting local meat packing against the big 4 was part of the Inflation Reduction Act.

So again, pretty in line with lots of Democrats but not something I would say is necessarily default position for the whole party yet.

No More Soldiers On Food Stamps: Raise Serviceman Pay
- > Increase base pay.

Has bipartisan support, with clashes over exactly how much (as you would expect).

So mainstream everybody as far as I can tell.

Support Our Veterans
-> More VA funding to deal with backlog and support for job placement and training for veterans.

The funding is mainstream Democratic policy.
I don't know about specific job placement proposals lately and don't feel like looking it up.

Guarantee a “Right to Repair” – For Farm Equipment, Cars, and Electronics
-> A bunch of good stuff.

Definitely not mainstream yet, but growing.
That he's firmly for this is one of the most promising things I see here in terms of moving in a good direction.

End Profiteering Off Senior Healthcare
  • Block private equity firms from taking over healthcare firms providing covered services when such a takeover would put those being served at risk.
  • Increase funding for enforcement.
Both things I support.
Not something that gets nearly enough attention and the second is a fairly mainstream Democratic position. (The "block private equity when it is bad" is vague enough that it is hard to know exactly what is meant there.)

Cut Taxes for Small Business and the Middle Class
- > cut middle-class and small business tax rates, - by cutting wasteful spending and closing loopholes used by multi-nationals to avoid paying taxes.

Mainstream Democratic position.

So....
Yeah.
He's a middle-of-the-road Democrat with a few Nebraska specific quirks and a strong position on right to repair that I support.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,284
6,068
113
Term limits isn't a progressive policy position.

Going through his list working up -

Keep Government Out of Our Private Lives
--> Reasonable gun control laws and in favor of a return to a pre-Dobbs status quo on abortion, more or less. (He's signaled support for codifying Roe federally in other interviews). Reducing unwanted pregnancies. (So good sex ed and so on.)
That's all mainstream Democrat.

Reform Railroad Safety
- > Increased regulation and federal enforcement.
That's all mainstream Democrat.

Protect Middle-Class Jobs and Wages
- > PRO act
- > Better bereavement and sick leave
- > $12 hour minimum wage
That's all mainstream Democrat, although obviously many Democrats want a higher Federal minimum wage.

Lower Taxes on Overtime Wages
-> Overtime wages should not bump a taxpayer into a higher bracket. Additionally, for the purposes of calculating eligibility for any income-related benefits, overtime wages should not be included.

Not sure how the first part is to be accomplished, and that obviously isn't a progressive policy.
The second part is more promising and there is definitely something interesting to look at there.

End Wasteful Government Handouts to the Pharmaceutical Industry
-> Doesn't really say what he means by this. It's just "Pharma getting lots of money in the pandemic was bad".

Would need real meat on the bones to assess it.

Legalize Cannabis
-> Remove from Schedule 1 (a bit unclear on whether legalized or decriminalized).

Pretty common Democratic position, although not the obvious majority of the party yet.

A Secure Border for a Secure Country
-> Pretty handwavy, but "do something better" language.

Basically everyone in Congress right now, no details although he has made noise he would have supported the bipartisan law the GOP killed earlier this year.

A Level Playing Field for Family Farms and Ranches
--> Nebraska-specific, but includes anti-monopoly moves and right to repair.

Anti-trust aspects. I don't know enough about the crop insurance to know how easy "fix it" is, but fights over the subsidies are pretty common.
The Right to Repair is niche, but growing (and bi-partisan). Supporting local meat packing against the big 4 was part of the Inflation Reduction Act.

So again, pretty in line with lots of Democrats but not something I would say is necessarily default position for the whole party yet.

No More Soldiers On Food Stamps: Raise Serviceman Pay
- > Increase base pay.

Has bipartisan support, with clashes over exactly how much (as you would expect).

So mainstream everybody as far as I can tell.

Support Our Veterans
-> More VA funding to deal with backlog and support for job placement and training for veterans.

The funding is mainstream Democratic policy.
I don't know about specific job placement proposals lately and don't feel like looking it up.

Guarantee a “Right to Repair” – For Farm Equipment, Cars, and Electronics
-> A bunch of good stuff.

Definitely not mainstream yet, but growing.
That he's firmly for this is one of the most promising things I see here in terms of moving in a good direction.

End Profiteering Off Senior Healthcare
  • Block private equity firms from taking over healthcare firms providing covered services when such a takeover would put those being served at risk.
  • Increase funding for enforcement.
Both things I support.
Not something that gets nearly enough attention and the second is a fairly mainstream Democratic position. (The "block private equity when it is bad" is vague enough that it is hard to know exactly what is meant there.)

Cut Taxes for Small Business and the Middle Class
- > cut middle-class and small business tax rates, - by cutting wasteful spending and closing loopholes used by multi-nationals to avoid paying taxes.

Mainstream Democratic position.

So....
Yeah.
He's a middle-of-the-road Democrat with a few Nebraska specific quirks and a strong position on right to repair that I support.
No they aren't, or they would have implemented them by now. They have been in power long enough, and with enough power to do it. And haven't.

Talk is cheap. Policy not implemented is just a lie to get votes. The Democratic Party now takes in as much corporate donations as the GOP. Same donors, same policy.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
37,133
74,823
113
No they aren't, or they would have implemented them by now.
Ah.
We've reached the "Butler doesn't like reality so he invents his own" portion of the proceedings.




Talk is cheap. Policy not implemented is just a lie to get votes.
Interesting.
You think Osborn is lying.
Or you think he has 60 votes as the Nebraska senator.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,284
6,068
113
Ah.
We've reached the "Butler doesn't like reality so he invents his own" portion of the proceedings.






Interesting.
You think Osborn is lying.
Or you think he has 60 votes as the Nebraska senator.
60 votes in the Senate is a fake excuse. Get rid of the filibuster. It has already been done for things.

That is the reality.

You just don't want to admit it.

But what it really says is the Democrats need to be replaced. As do the GOP.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
37,133
74,823
113
So since you expect Osborn to accomplish nothing, he's lying and is just as bad as the Democrats, yes?
You didn't answer that part.
 
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