Iran and the bomb

Aardvark154

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"From that noted Zionist mouthpiece" :rolleyes: The Times

Not really anything that hasn't been said before, but for the naysayers:

Nuclear progress in Iran has dire consequences if diplomacy fails

For the past two months the world has watched as political turmoil has deepened in Iran after the contested presidential election results that returned Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to a controversial second term.

Now those problems threaten to grip not just Iran but the wider Middle East and beyond.

We know from intelligence estimates that Iran is nearing the point when it can produce its first nuclear warhead and the means to deliver it. That moment is likely to come under the leadership of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, and Mr Ahmadinejad, who will be inaugurated this month for another four-year term.

These are men who have demonstrated that they intend to hold on to power by whatever means necessary. They are also responsible for accelerating the nuclear programme and taking a hardline position against the West, in spite of repeated peace overtures made by President Barack Obama this year.

Washington has given Tehran until September to respond to an offer of dialogue. The hope is that diplomacy can bring Iran back from the brink. The test will be whether it is prepared to abide by international safeguards. These would allow it to build a legitimate civilian nuclear programme, which it is doing with Russian help at Bushehr. But it would mean stricter supervision of its more suspect facilities at Natanz and Arak.

If Iran chooses not to engage with Washington and rejects a negotiated deal on its nuclear facilities then America, Britain and France will press for harsher United Nations sanctions against Tehran. These will take effect only if Russia and China, who hold the right of veto at the UN Security Council, drop objections to tighter economic measures.

At this point the future looks bleak. If diplomatic efforts fail and if Iran presses ahead with its ambitions, then the Middle East may be headed for the most serious conflict in decades. Israel’s policy is that it prefers a diplomatic settlement but that “all options remain on the table”. By that it means using force to destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities, probably with air and missile strikes. Iran would be likely to respond and within days the region would threaten to become embroiled in a terrible war.

Many doubt that Israel would be prepared to take such a dangerous step, particularly since experts believe that Iran has the ability to rebuild the key uranium enrichment site within two to three years.

Who runs Iran in the coming months and years is not just a matter for Iranians.

This is now a global issue.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6736641.ece
 

Cinema Face

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This certainly is a serious issue. The world will most likely descend into nuclear war if Iran is allowed to develop the bomb.

I disagree that there is any hope of resolving this with dialogue. Iran will use dialogue as a means to buy time.

I also disagree that the choice for president would make any difference. The development of the bomb and the collision course that Iran is on would happen regardless of whoever happens to be the Mullahs’ puppet.
 

onthebottom

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I agree with Cinema that dialoge won't resolve this - there is nothing the West can give or take away from Iran that will alter it's course.

There are two choices, military action or Iran with a nuke. I don't really see any other option.

OTB
 

WoodPeckr

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This whole war mongering campaign is funded by the 'usual suspects' and almost comical in light of the way N Korea is being ignored. N Korea has acted and demonstrated in a far more provocative manner than Iran ever has.....:rolleyes:
 

canada-man

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and where is the physical proof that Iran is preparing to Use Nukes? you all did this before your ilk conquered Iraq. and do you really think Iran would be stupied to risked being retailated against if they fire a nuke towards the west and once again they forgot that the U.S supported a nuclear program after they and the british installed the shaw. just admit that you hate governments that don't sell out thier nations to U.S interests. events in latin america and the carribbean proves this especially the blockade against Cuba
 

WoodPeckr

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Hope these paranoid righties stock up on their Depends!.....:eek:
They are gonna need them....
 

canada-man

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America's Allies
THE FRIENDLY DICTATORS
Meet the Friendly Dictators - three dozen* of America's most embarrassing "friends", a cunning crew of tyrants and corrupt puppet-presidents who have been rewarded handsomely for their loyalty to U.S. interests.
Traditional Dictators seize control through force and often are self-styled "Generals." Constitutional Dictators hold office through voting fraud or severely restricted elections and are frequently mouthpieces for the military juntas which control the ballot boxes. Both types of dictators are covered here, along with a few tyrannical kings. but don't look for "enemy dictators" (communists and the like) in this set of cards. These are America's allies, strange and undemocratic as they may be.

Friendly Dictators often rise to power through bloody CIA-backed coups and rule by terror and torture. Their troops may receive training or advice from the CIA and other U.S. agencies. "Anti-communism" is their common battle cry and a common excuse for political repression. They are linked internationally through extreme right-wing groups such as the World Anti-Communist League (see card 17). Strong Nazi affiliations are typical - some have been known to dress in Nazi paraphemalia and quote from Mein Kampf, while others offer sanctuary for actual Nazi war criminals.

Friendly Dictators usually grow rich, while their countries' economies go down the drain. U.S. tax dollars and U.S. backed loans have made billionaires of some; others are international drug dealers who also collect CIA paychecks. Rarely are they called to account for their crimes.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html


stuff the paranoid war drum beating righties won't touch
 

WoodPeckr

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canada-man said:
...stuff the paranoid war drum beating righties won't touch
Sadly this is the name of the game.
All is for the greater glory/profit of the MIC.
Ike, tried to warn us about the MIC but his warning now fall on deaf OxyContinized ears....:rolleyes:
 

canada-man

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Secret_Admirer said:
Yah, in case of iran they shoot, jail, murder, torture and rape their nation, they don't sell them out.

they also do that in Saudi Arabia which is more repressive and where women are property and rape victims executed for Adultery and NONE of the righties are aksing for egime change in Saudi Arabia
 

papasmerf

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canada-man said:
they also do that in Saudi Arabia which is more repressive and where women are property and rape victims executed for Adultery and NONE of the righties are aksing for egime change in Saudi Arabia
You might want to rethink that. Myself I have been stating that any country run by a religion (with one exception) is bad. I also want each person in this world to live under democracy and not dictatorship.

Fact is many here have been bringing the atrocities you speak of to light for years.
 

Aardvark154

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canada-man said:
America's Allies
THE FRIENDLY DICTATORS
So does that includes the U.K. and presumably the Editors of The Times or are they rather all secret closet "right wing Americans"???

Interesting that even when the message comes from overseas certain minds can't grasp that, to them it's still all a vast: right wing, U.S., Military Industrial Complex, conspiracy.

Closed minded and pathetic to put it mildly!
 

WoodPeckr

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Aardvark154 said:
Closed minded and pathetic to put it mildly!
As they say, once you recognize your problem, you are on the road to recovery.
Perhaps there is hope for you....;)
 

jwmorrice

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In the laboratory.
Original URL: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/04/mop_funding_discussions/
US Stealth bombers may get nuke-bunker nobbler for 2010

14-tonne supersonic steel pencil could have your eye out

By Lewis Page
Posted in Science, 4th August 2009 11:14 GMT


Reports from Washington suggest that the US military is seeking to speed up efforts to deploy a new 14 tonne bunker-piercing conventional weapon aboard its fleet of B-2 stealth bombers. The Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) could be used to strike at heavily protected Iranian or North Korean nuclear facilities.

Reuters reports (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN0213354020090803?sp=true) that the US Air Force is seeking to speed up the MOP programme, requesting extra funds from Washington politicians to that end. The Pentagon hopes to have B-2s equipped to carry MOPs as soon as next year.

"The Air Force and Department of Defense are looking at the possibility of accelerating the program," USAF spokesman Andy Bourland told the news wire. "There have been discussions with the four congressional committees with oversight responsibilities. No final decision has been made."

The MOP is a comparatively simple proposal, a massive sharpened steel pencil with a relatively small 2.5 tonne explosive charge inside. Dropped from high in the stratosphere, it will strike its target at supersonic speed and punch through many tens of metres of earth or concrete protection before detonating.

Very similar weapons - for instance the British "Tallboy" and "Grand Slam" penetrators, designed by legendary Brit bouncing-bomb boffin Barnes Wallis of Dambusters fame and termed "earthquake bombs" - were used against hardened Nazi targets in World War II. An even bigger design, the colossal 20-tonne American T12 (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/t12-specs.htm), arrived too late to see action*. The only significant enhancement boasted by the 14-tonne MOP over the 1940s models is precision guidance, which should mean that far fewer bombers will be needed to eliminate a target.

The likeliest target for MOPs in the immediate future - assuming that a US president chose to resort to military means against a perceived nuclear threat - would probably be the underground centrifuge farm at Natanz in Iran (Google Earth kmz file (http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/04/24/natanz_nuclear_facility.kmz)). A successful strike on the deeply buried enrichment bunkers there would be a major blow to the Iranian nuclear effort.

However, Iranian air defences have been beefed up (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070207/60358702.html) with Russian missile systems in recent years, and may soon receive further enhancements (http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=88977&sectionid=351020101) from the same source. While MOPs could be dropped on Natanz from ordinary American B-52s, mounting such a raid would be difficult and likely to involve a significant aerial precursor campaign against missile sites and the like, with associated additional loss of life on the ground and risk to US aircrews.

By contrast, a B-2 stealth raid would be a comparatively surgical and painless affair - thus the desire to fit the new bunker-nobbling tool to the batwinged low-observable bomber. ®
 
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