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Is Old Music Killing New Music?

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Gene Simmons has been saying this and he is how do you say... as yes completely wrong.

Taylor Swift, Lada Gaga, Bruno Mars, one can list plenty of new acts that made it big. Never mind Psy, BTS, Black Pink etc. All in the post Napster period.

Just none of them are rock.

It's for the same reason there hasn't been a decent new classical song is the last 100 years, why you don't get much in the way of new classic Blues, Bluegrass, Jazz, old school rap etc. It's been done, what needed to be said has been said. People still listen to the old shit. I listen to the old shit. If someone tried new shit, meh it's already been done and very well.
I love Taylor Swift. (But only for her legs.). Couldn't tell you one song she sings. Lady Gaga is better, but again, not at the same level as the Beatles, the Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin is she. All of your examples are pop stars. Modern age "boy bands" (albeit some with girls.). There were pop stars throughout the history of modern music. But are they thought provoking? Not in the least.

None of them have nor will they have any influence.
 

onomatopoeia

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Rick Beato is a little long winded at times, but he knows the music biz inside and out. Fixing genius when it comes to song structure.

Rick breaks down a lot of top 10 on Spotify and Apple. Not only does he figure out how to play the song as it’s playing, he breaks down the chord structure. Record companies figured out a long time ago that in a scale, chords 1, 4, 5, and 6 sound sweet together. While the Beatles only used that chord pattern in one of their 22 number ones… every song on this top 10 uses a variation of this chord progression. Different beats, keyboards, but all the same chords fed to us over and over and over again.
I don't buy tracks or subscribe to any streaming services. I make 320 kbs .mp3s with MusicMatch Jukebox 10 from CDs I own on a Windows XP computer not connected to the Internet, and I can find almost anything broadcast on TV online from a torrent site or peer to peer app. I spend my online entertainment budget on extra disk space instead of subscriptions. If I lost connection to the Internet, I could entertain myself 24/7 for years from what I've accumulated, at just the cost of the electricity.

I don't own a cell phone. If I'm not home, I don't want people to be able to speak to me, unless it's face to face. If something is immediately urgent to them, it probably isn't to me.
 
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onomatopoeia

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Without a doubt, the British bands led the progression in rock music. All the top bands are British and in the case of U2, Irish.

For whatever reason, there are few if any American Alevel bands and artists.

A LOT of really crappy bands were on the UK charts, just like here. I have over 100 episodes of Top of the Pops from the 1970's and 80's. Here's one of the worst - 7 Teen by The Regents:


Sideshow by The Chanter Sisters:


They were prolific backing vocalists on many well known recordings. They're also miming onstage in the video of Roger Daltrey's version of Say it Ain't So, Joe, (not as good as the Murray Head recording), even though they don't appear on the studio recording. The guitarist in this video is Jimmy McCulloch, (Paul McCartney and Wings, 1974-77).

 

onomatopoeia

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I love Taylor Swift. (But only for her legs.).
I don't like Taylor Swift's music either, but I do like the fact that she is her own business manager, and she donates large sums of money to disaster relief efforts. When a hurricane strikes, or a tornado destroys a trailer park; Taylor Swift often cuts a generous cheque while Congress is still bickering about riders to be added to a Bill proposition. Justin Bieber buys a private jet for himself.
 

Brill

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Jun 29, 2008
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I blame the lack of quality today on anyone who thought Cher’s ridiculously over auto-tuned “Believe” was a good song.
Yes, boomers ruined music and the resulting wreckage is still stinking up the airwaves.
 

NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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I love Taylor Swift. (But only for her legs.). Couldn't tell you one song she sings. Lady Gaga is better, but again, not at the same level as the Beatles, the Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin is she. All of your examples are pop stars. Modern age "boy bands" (albeit some with girls.). There were pop stars throughout the history of modern music. But are they thought provoking? Not in the least.
It's irrelevant for the argument on if you or I think they are good or not. They all made it in the same financial world rock operates in. If your thesis was correct about money and piracy killing rock, they would be nobodies also.

Also I wouldn't call rock necessarily thought provoking. Love Gun is Paul Stanley literally singing about his dick. Far from the only example. Fuck if that is your standard, Rock died before Napster came on the scene. Plenty of big names and big songs, no thought provoking. For that matter I doubt most people really give a shit. Hell I doubt many people actually listen all that closely to the lyrics. Elvis Presley in the 50's basically sang about the gay and nobody seems to have noticed.
Number forty-seven said to number three
"You're the cutest jailbird I ever did see"
"I sure would be delighted with your company"
"Come on and do the Jailhouse Rock with me"

You don't need to invoke thought or be relevant or have influence to be a thriving rock band or music in general or as the DKs would say
If my friends say
I've lost my guts
I'll laugh and say
That's rock and roll
But there's just one problem
Is my cock big enough
Is my brain small enough
For you to make me a star
Give me a toot, I'll sell you my soul
Pull my strings and I'll go far
 

NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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I love Taylor Swift.
Actually I watch TMZ [guilty pleasure and some of the staff are hot and there isn't enough TV to watch]
One of the girls, granted one of the dumber ones said if it was between Taylor Swift and her, one had to die, she would pick herself.
It's nuts, and I am not a fan of TS, my penis is, but not me, but that is some serious high level impact there.
 

eddie kerr

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Jan 16, 2004
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There are a limited number of chord sequences which are both memorable and pleasant to the ear. By now, most of them have been discovered or co-opted in one song or another by someone. This is one of the main points in the The Atlantic link in post #1.

The first time I heard of a pliagiarism lawsuit in pop/ rock music was The My Sweet Lord Copyright infrigement suit in 1971. Petty much ALL of the good riffs have been used by someone by now, and new ones that are good are often too close in structure to existing ones that entertainment lawyers can smell a money-making opportunity.

I can't name a GREAT guitarist born after the 1970's, and those born after the 60's are fairly rare.

Rock music as a force in NEW music is a bit player. Few of the seniors bands still gigging are creating New music with any chart presence. There were never a lot of Rock acts who produced enduringly popular songs after the songwriters attained age 35. If the membership in these bands is still alive and playing live, it's their old tunes that the crowd is paying to see. I for one would rather listen to the old tracks, or watch a DVD of an old performance than pay hundreds of dollars to see sexagenarians perform fifty year old tunes with one or two 'real' band members and some side men.

I also don't consider a live performance to be a Rock concert if the name performer has back up dancers on stage.
One of my all time favourite guitarists who played many various styles of music is Ry Folder, born in 1947, so yes you are right. My favourite R & B guitarist is Joe Bonamassa, born in 1977, so no you are wrong. But, generally agree with your comments.
 

eddie kerr

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I can think of 2.

I imagine that you've heard of Derek Trucks, nephew of Allman Bros. drummer Butch Trucks. 1979. He's been widely acclaimed as the best young guitar player for at least a decade.

Currently giving him a run for his money and who you may not have heard of is Cary Clark Jr., from Texas, 1984. I'd say that these guys are 1 and 1A.

Please indulge me and give a listen. I'm pretty sure that you'll approve. In Bright Lights he starts kicking it in at about the 2:50 mark but the whole song is worth listening to.

And this song probably highlights his talents even better. He's got fingers that look like Jimi's. The camera focusses in on his fretwork. Absolute classic blues song. I recommend listening to the whole song but if you don't have the time he does two solos, the second one kills and starts at about 6:45. Would love to hear your feedback.

Oh. And how could I forget JoBo, Joe Bonamassa, 1977. The solo starts at around 5:00
Joe Bonamassa great R & B guitarist.
 

onomatopoeia

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Jul 3, 2020
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I can't name a GREAT guitarist born after the 1970's, and those born after the 60's are fairly rare.
One of my all time favourite guitarists who played many various styles of music is Ry Folder, born in 1947, so yes you are right. My favourite R & B guitarist is Joe Bonamassa, born in 1977, so no you are wrong. But, generally agree with your comments.
Joe Bonamassa great R & B guitarist.
Joe Bonamassa was NOT born AFTER the 1970's.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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A LOT of really crappy bands were on the UK charts, just like here. I have over 100 episodes of Top of the Pops from the 1970's and 80's. Here's one of the worst - 7 Teen by The Regents:
Can't really call TotP "rock". Just really icky-saccharine, show-bizzy, 70's Britpop sludge. Even the real rock bands - like the Stones - looked awful on TotP.

But they did break the career of Marc Bolan and one of the best rhythm riffs of the 70's...



 

onomatopoeia

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Can't really call TotP "rock"....
Having seen 100+ episodes of Top of the Pops, I would consider this opinion inaccurate.

List of Performers on Top of the Pops

Any recording act that had a single on the UK chart was eligible to perform on Top of the Pops. Most, but not all, mimed on stage to the studio recording. Some performers sang live to an instrumental track of their chart hit, and sometimes bands performed their hit song live on the show.

I don't know if this is still the case, but the live musician's union in the UK was very powerful at one time. There were strictly enforced limits as to how much recorded music could be aired on UK radio and television. A song that was #1 on the chart might have been restricted to a maximum of three or fewer plays per week on BBC radio. Top of the Tops was considered to be a 'live' performance per these regulations, even if the performers mimed to a studio recording. The show was taped on Thursday afternoon and aired early Thursday evening for most of its run. The UK is small enough that a band on tour could perform on that week's ToTP show, and do a live gig somewhere in the country later that night.

One of the ways many acts circumvented the restrictions on broadcasts of their studio recordings was to perform their songs live in the radio station studio. This was done frequently on John Peel's BBC1 radio show; Peel was a very influential Disc Jockey, who sometimes hosted Top of the Pops. Many of these 'live in the studio' broadcasts have been released commercially in recent years under the umbrella title 'John Peel Sessions', often as part of CD box sets. The ability to perform songs live in a radio station studio is one of the reasons why the British bands were often much better performers at live concerts than North American counterparts.

For charting songs for which the performing artist(s) were unable or unwilling to appear on TotP, dance troups performed on stage to the recorded song, (often an edited 'K-Tel type version', about two - two and a half minutes long). Sometimes music videos were played in lieu of an onstage performance. The very early music videos were often 'zero budget' promotional films made by the record label. or sometimes ToTP just played video of something to accompany the audio track. Later in the 1970's and beyond, professionally shot 'MTV type' music videos often filled a significant portion of the show, and the dance troups were entirely eliminated.

Before music videos, it was common for many recording acts to be 'studio only' bands. Song writers or producers would hire studio musicians to record their song. If it was a hit, actors often unrelated to the recording would appear on ToTP to mime to the hit song, or a band would be formed to perform the hit song at live gigs.

Tony Burrows famously appeared four times on one episode of TotP in 1970. He was the lead singer of four different 'studio only' bands who were simultaneously on the UK charts, (Edison Lighthouse, Brotherhood of Man, White Plains and Pipkins). Burrows' voice is best know to North American audiences from the 1974 hit Beach Baby by First Class.

The vast majority of ToTP episodes from 1964-75 no longer exist in any form, other than memory. The BBC 'wiped' the videotapes so that they could be used for something else. Many other episodes from the 1960's and 70's are now banned from rebroadcast on the BBC because they were hosted by Jimmy Savile. Allegations of Savile's sexual predation became public news following his death in 2011. It is generally believed that the BBC knew of his sexual abuses for years, but did nothing about it. Similarly, episodes which feature Gary Glitter are no longer part of the rebroadcasts.

I don't know if this is still the case, but about ten years ago, for a few years the BBC aired TotP episodes from 30 years prior each week. I have quite a few episodes from the late 70's/ early 80's sourced from these rebroadcasts, obtained from a private torrent site named thebox.bz, which had UK television and radio broadcasts for all of its content. thebox became zxcv.bz in 2012, and became defunct in 2014, largely from pressure by Rupert Murdoch, who objected to sports torrents circulating from broadcasts on his pay-per-view Sky television network.

Television viewers in the UK have to pay a monthly fee to see any stations, and much of the money raised funds the BBC. Low income people often could not afford both an Internet connection and a television license, so they would subscribe to an Internet ISP, and download their television from torrents on thebox.
 

eddie kerr

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Jan 16, 2004
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Well, duh.....

AFTER the 1970's means AFTER December 31, 1979. Name a great guitarist, (other than Gary Clark Jr) who was born on or after January 1, 1980 if you want to challenge my pontification.
Picky Picky. LOL. Don't be so serious, can't you take a joke???
 

eddie kerr

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Jan 16, 2004
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Well, duh.....

AFTER the 1970's means AFTER December 31, 1979. Name a great guitarist, (other than Gary Clark Jr) who was born on or after January 1, 1980 if you want to challenge my pontification.
MatthewTuck, British guitarist, band called Bullet for my Valentine and AxeWound, born Jan.20, 1980.
 
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