Man ordered to pay surrogate mother £568 a month for the baby he will never see

alexmst

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A couple who lost custody of their baby daughter to her surrogate mother have been ordered to hand over more than £500 a month maintenance for the child.

Today they spoke of their disgust that they would be forced to pay for someone else to raise the child they will never see.

The father, a leading chef, said the decision by the Child Support Agency ‘added insult to injury’ and that he would appeal against it.

He and his wife, who had suffered six late-stage miscarriages including four sets of twins, used a surrogacy website to find a single mother of two on benefits who was willing to carry the baby they longed for.

They made an informal agreement to pay her £10,000 in expenses.

But halfway through the pregnancy she decided she wanted to keep the baby and a judge ordered that the woman, who was also the biological mother, could keep the child despite her earlier promise.

The couple, referred to as Mr and Mrs W to protect the child’s identity, later relinquished their contact rights because they said it would be too difficult emotionally and that it was unfair for the baby to be split between two homes.
They allowed the surrogate, known as Miss N, to keep the £4,500 they had already given to her. But now Mr W must also pay £568 in child support every month as the biological father of the eight-month-old girl.

‘She cannot say, “I am now keeping your child myself and now you must pay for it”,’ he said. :rolleyes: (Umm...yes, she can actually...)

She has taken away our baby and now she is taking our money. To me, that is completely wrong. The CSA has made the decision as if we were a couple who had broken up, but our situation is unique. ‘We were not having a baby together, we had agreed for her to carry a child for myself and my wife.

I have written to Downing Street and my MP to call for a change in the law.’

Mr W said he now suspected it may have been Miss N’s plan all along to have a child with a wealthy man from whom she could claim child support over the next 18 years.

‘We should have seen the signs when she started asking for more than we had agreed. I don’t think this was ever about her suddenly wanting to keep the baby, I think this was about getting an income.’

The chef said he would feel more comfortable paying for vouchers which could be redeemed on food and clothing than money which would not necessarily go towards the child. ‘If I need to pay £500 a month because otherwise the child will be living in poverty then that is another reason why the baby should be with us. We would have given her all the things she needed.’

After she and her husband contacted her via a website, Miss N agreed to be inseminated with Mr W’s sperm, meaning they were both the baby’s biological parents.
But the relationship between the two parties turned sour after Miss N apparently began asking for more money.

Three months before the baby was due, she sent a text message to the couple to say she was keeping the child.

In July last year she gave birth to baby T and a bitter six-month custody battle ensued.
Miss N accused Mr W of being violent towards his wife, which the couple denied. They accused Miss N of neglecting her sons and of living in a filthy home.

In January, in a rare case, Miss N was awarded custody after a judge deemed it was in the child’s best interests because there was a ‘clear attachment’ between the mother and daughter.

At the time, Mr Justice Baker warned that the risks of entering into a surrogacy agreement were ‘very considerable’. Surrogacy agreements are not legally binding in court, even with a formal written contract.

It is illegal to profit from surrogacy but "reasonable expenses" are permitted.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-mother-568-month-baby-see.html#ixzz1JGMUhUkH
 

afterhours

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what's the deal with all these appeals? the audacity
there should be a law that says that if you have testicles and you are not gay then you will be fucked in the ass at least once at some point in your life and you cannot appeal it.
 

alexmst

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One of the pitfalls of going the surrogacy route is that the girl can change her mind and not give you the child, and, since courts go by biological paternity in awarding child support, you can get hit with paying child support as well.

Better to not let one's identity be know to the surrogate. I would think the use of multiple levels of go-betweens could ensure one's identity is unknown to the surrogate. Then the lump sum could be paid on delivery. If she changes her mind one can decide what one wants to do at that point but can't be forced into anything as one is an unknown entity. Problem is without one's name on the birth certificate or a handing over of custody agreement it might prove difficult to vacation in international locations.

The easiest way I would think is to get a surrogate who intends to honour the deal that way one can be listed on the birth certificate and can have a legal sole custody agreement that would allow one to travel with the child easily. The surrogate gets her "(very)reasonable expenses" and all is well.

As we know, courts don't care how or why you got her pregnant - if you are the biological father you are on the hook. Saying "I shouldn't have to pay because the deal was I would raise the child, not her", doesn't hold any more than the "I was drunk and didn't intend to sleep with her" reasoning holds, or the "the condom must have failed" reasoning.
 

Aardvark154

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Mr Justice Baker warned that the risks of entering into a surrogacy agreement were ‘very considerable’. Surrogacy agreements are not legally binding in court, even with a formal written contract.
Although a difficult area of the law, remember this is specifically English and Welsh law Mr. Justice Baker is speaking of.
 

alexmst

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He shouldn't have picked one who was on welfare and living in, by his own description, filth. Now he has the unpleasant realization that his monthly payments will probably go more for things other than the child and the child will be rasied by someone he considers unfit to do so. Better to pick with the thought in mind that this person could end up with YOUR child. His lump sum was on the low side - maybe he picked her because she was the low bidder. I would never pick a welfare case living in filth as my choice of surrogate.
 

customer

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Why does he not sue for custody?
She has two other children and is on benefits, I say let this guy and his wife take all the kids and sue her for support.
 

afterhours

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alexmst

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How would you go about it?
Me? I would spend considerable time picking someone I thought was suitable, keeping in mind that if things go south she could end up with the kid.

Aardvark154 is correct that the law differs country to country. This article concerns a case in the UK.

There was a peice on CTV about the law as regards Canada:

Legal issues

Couples who are considering surrogacy as a way to have children must make sure that they have a legal agreement and are not violating any laws, according to a lawyer specializing in reproductive technology.

"It's vital to have a pre-conception surrogacy agreement covering a multitude of issues, but it's best to have that done before anybody gets pregnant," lawyer Sherry Levitan told CTV's Canada AM.

As well as ensuring there is a legal agreement, Levitan also stressed that couples should be knowledgeable about how Canadian law views surrogacy as an option for parenthood. While surrogacy is legal in Canada, since 2004, it has been illegal to pay a surrogate or gestational carrier a fee beyond the expenses directly related to carrying a baby.

Health Canada is currently conducting a public consultation on the matter of fees paid to surrogate mothers.

"Right now we're in a completely grey zone," Levitan said. "As long as the expenses are related to the surrogacy, as long as they're reasonable, as long as they're receipted, we're okay."


Let's face it, the law discourages surrogacy. Reasonable expenses are all that is allowed legally to avoid people paying a surrogate to have a baby for them. Thus the only people who would do it are very altruistic souls, the type who donate a kidney to strangers. In reality, money is the incentive usually for those not altruistic. It can't be part of any legal agreement though as that is illegal. In the case of the article, the guy didn't have a formal agreement, he had an informal agreement to pay her $20,000 for having the child. This exceeds normal expenses and was not a sum to pay incurred costs, it was a payment in exchange for a service.

If one made a legal agreement in Canada to pay a surrogate 'reasonable expenses' and had an informal side deal that in reality you would pay her $20,000 for doing it, if she contested the agreement and wanted to keep the child, she could claim that you offered her the $20,000, and if you agree you did, what happens to your legal agreement? If it is ruled invalid, what happens to said child? More than likely she will have custody.

So I would accept from the get-go that she might change her mind and keep the child. I would look for someone who was going into surrogacy because they wanted the money, not because they were on welfare and needed it. I would see a lawyer who specialized in surrogacy cases prior to doing anything to be advised. Hypothehically, I would find/interview candidates who I think, based on their life history and outlook, would be good surrogates and also good parents if the deal went south. If I informally offered a gift, it would be far more than 20k (like 10x) and would be a suitable enticement to take on what is, lets face it, dangerous work from a health perspective. I would presume I would have my lawyer draft up a contract that made no mention of this other gifts other than reasonable expenses. My gift would be not in any part payable in advance. The surrogate would then have the option of going through with the legal agreement for the nominal expenses (and perhaps getting a gift), or she could change her mind and still get the nominal expenses but not get the gift. She could then requerst child support (instead of the gift). If she really loved the child she might do this (pass up 200k). If however, she loved the child enought to pass up that kind of money she would probably make a good parent and I would be content that she loved the child and would use the child support to the child's advantage. I would at least have successfully had a child, even if I didn't get to raise the child. I might offer extra incentives to be allowed to be in the child's life if the surrogate and I were on good terms. I would not take her to court for custody if she decided she couldn't part with the child after the birth. The reason I would want the legal agreement would not be to force custody in a court fight but to allow me legal rights after the deal in travelling internationally with the child (sole custody agreement)so as I wasn't having to go back to the birth mother for permissions). It would be a question of do you want the gift and honour the agreement, or do you want custody yourself and a monthly child support allowance? The gift has to be high enough to make it a real incentive. 20k imo is not high enough.

See if she is only trying to keep the kid for the money of child support, my gift would equal what the guy in the article would pay out monthly over the course of 18 years. In his case he payed out half already in advance, so she was only looking at 10k on delivery and she could have got that in less than a year in child support. In my hypothetical case, she would be getting all the child support she would get over 18 years in one lump sum in hand. The only reason she would keep the child in my scenario is if she had real feelings for the child, as financially it makes far more sense for her to take the lump sum. So I win either way - I either get the child to raise or I get a mother I know values the child more than money to raise my child for me, and I pay her child support for that.

What would irk one is to pick a surrogate on welfare living in flith who one knows doesn't love the kid and have to pay her support that the kid won't even benefit from. That is what the guy in the article is facing.
 

basketcase

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She's the biological mother? I always thought a surrogate was just holding the eggs, not providing them. She shouldn't be considered a surrogate but a mother who was initially willing to have her baby adopted by the father's family. As it is, he's the dad and the welfare mom is the mom and I don't think any kind of contract would override that (and $1000 per month from an evidently wealthy dad seems like nothing).

Sue for custody would be his only choice.


(the suspicious side of me thinks that chef dad knocked up some woman and the whole surrogate thing is to cover up.
 

alexmst

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She's the biological mother? I always thought a surrogate was just holding the eggs, not providing them. She shouldn't be considered a surrogate but a mother who was initially willing to have her baby adopted by the father's family. As it is, he's the dad and the welfare mom is the mom and I don't think any kind of contract would override that (and $1000 per month from an evidently wealthy dad seems like nothing).

Sue for custody would be his only choice.


(the suspicious side of me thinks that chef dad knocked up some woman and the whole surrogate thing is to cover up.
Yes, she is the biological mom and he is the biological dad. She is agreeing in advance to give full custody to the dad, that is the deal. If it goes well, all is good. However, she changed her mind. So it is now biological dad vs biological mom for custody, with no prior romantic or co-habiting relationship between the two 'parents'. Guess who of the two is more likely to win custody. She is entitled to child custody payments same as if he knocked her up after a drunken night at the bar. You are the biological dad? You pay child support.
 

TVA

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Don't you know??? We live in a women's country! Thanks for supporting feminist movement!
 

nottyboi

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The fact is, the kid is blameless and needs to be looked after. This couple got screwed over by some bitch that wanted a kid and did want to pay the tab. Nothing new here. I do think, however, he should get visitation rights.
 
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