Steeles Royal

Mayoral Candidate Soknacki: Derail The Stupid Train

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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Toronto election: Mayoral candidate David Soknacki would cancel Rob Ford subway

Former Scarborough councillor said he would cancel $1B borrowing in favour of light rail transit he says would require no tax increase



By: Paul Moloney City Hall Bureau reporter, Published on Tue Jan 14 2014 Toronto Star



Toronto mayoral candidate David Soknacki announced Tuesday that if elected he would seek to ditch the Scarborough subway in favour of light rail transit.

Speaking to reporters at Lawrence East SRT station, the former city councillor for Ward 43, Scarborough East said the LRT offers better service at lower cost to Toronto taxpayers.

The former budget chief under mayor David Miller said Mayor Rob Ford’s subway plan requires borrowing almost $1 billion.

Soknacki said he would cancel Ford’s “property tax increase needed to pay for the subway option.”

Cancelling the subway at this point will not cost anything as city officials have not signed any contracts for the project. Some money has been approved by council to begin the project but it has not been spent. Cancelling the LRT will cost $85 million with much of it used to pay for cancelled contracts.

Soknacki said his LRT would have seven stops, “require no tax increase, no add to the city’s debt and be built years sooner than a subway,” Soknacki said.

Ford has railed against LRTs as glorified streetcars that block motorists, and said Scarborough residents deserve and want subways like downtowners enjoy.

Soknacki set his announcement on the existing SRT line to show it runs in its own route, not on roads, so it doesn’t impede cars.

On support for a Scarborough subway, Soknacki says Scarborough residents say they want subways but when details are canvassed, they warm up to the idea of light rail transit.

“Everyone wants subways and then you say, ‘Do you want two or three stops or do you want seven stops. Do you want service faster?’”

When those questions are posed, support for a subway drops, he said.

“They want better service, they want faster service, they want cheaper service. And that’s what this is all about.”

Under Ford’s plan, a subway costing $3.5 billion would be built with $2 billion from the province, $660 million from the federal government and $910 million from the city of which $745 million would be borrowed.

To pay off the debt, Ford’s plan would required raising property taxes – starting with a hike of 0.5 per cent this year.

Soknacki said the $660 million in federal money would not be lost but could be diverted to other infrastructure needs, the provincial money would build the LRT and the city wouldn’t have to borrow.

Money saved could be put toward other transit priorities such as a new subway to act as a downtown relief line, he said.

“A seven-stop LRT in Scarborough will save hundreds of millions of public dollars that can be redirected toward our top transit priorities,” he said.

Mayor Ford, who was scheduled to address reporters at 3 p.m., was the target of a few swipes from fellow Etobicoke politician, Councillor Gloria Lindsay Luby, who is supporting Soknacki.

“I think he’s got a really good head on his shoulders,” she said. “And he’s a self-made businessman. Daddy did not give him a business to run, he made it on his own, and that’s an important ingredient for the city.”

Under Ford, “we’ve been shortchanged and sloganed to death. It’s about time we got on with business.”

Also flanking Soknacki was Councillor Paul Ainslie, a former aide to Soknacki and the sole Scarborough councillor to split with Ford and back an LRT.

Along with vision and policy ideas, Soknacki has “the temperament that we need in a mayor to move this city forward,” said Ainslie, who holds Soknacki’s old council seat.

“You look at what the current mayor is doing in terms of grandstanding and politicking, I don’t think he’s moving the city forward in a practical or a fiscally responsible manner.”



He lays it out very well. Simple, truthful, sound and rational. Transit policy based upon fact, evidence, merit and sound judgement.

Any self-professed fiscal conservative or reasonable person cannot possibly disagree.

It is time to derail THE STUPID TRAIN
 

AdamH

Well-known member
Jun 28, 2013
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It all depends on how stupid the people of Scarborough really are. If they're as dumb as Rob Ford's banking on then fmahovalich is right.. I fear that they might be.
 

Jennifer_

New member
It all depends on how stupid the people of Scarborough really are. If they're as dumb as Rob Ford's banking on then fmahovalich is right.. I fear that they might be.
It will all depend on how well Soknacki can explain the TRUTH .

I have said it before- I think he's going to be a force to be reckoned with.

If Tory doesn't run... (And it will depend on how the vote split will impact the results...). Right now he has my vote.

I didn't live in Tdot when Soknacki was a councillor so I did not know much about him...

But the more I learn, the more I like.

He is a sane fiscal Conservative, a self-made businessman... He is 100% right on his take on transit.

If Tory doesn't run- he's going to get the centre and non-fordnation right votes .

I like him so far...
 

elmo

Registered User
Oct 23, 2002
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here and there
This is why nothing ever gets done in Toronto. Gardner, transit etc...all delayed for years because there is no direction that all can agree on or at least live with. This same debate will be happening years from now. How do other cities continue to move forward and ours is mired in debates, studies and policies that are constantly reversed? Toronto is not the world class city some think it is, its a dysfunctional mess.
 

AdamH

Well-known member
Jun 28, 2013
1,885
255
83
It will all depend on how well Soknacki can explain the TRUTH .

I have said it before- I think he's going to be a force to be reckoned with.

If Tory doesn't run... (And it will depend on how the vote split will impact the results...). Right now he has my vote.

I didn't live in Tdot when Soknacki was a councillor so I did not know much about him...

But the more I learn, the more I like.

He is a sane fiscal Conservative, a self-made businessman... He is 100% right on his take on transit.

If Tory doesn't run- he's going to get the centre and non-fordnation right votes .

I like him so far...
I got nothing against the guy. I like John Tory more, but that's probably because I think John Tory has a better shot at winning.

The trouble is the majority of people are stupid. The older I get the more the line from Spaceballs "I knew it! I'm surrounded by assholes!" appears to be very true of life. The majority of people would much rather listen to a loud mouthed blithering twit with a good slogan than the well reason arguments of an intellectual. Maybe if Soknacki came out with a Slogan like "LRT is right for me!" or "Give me transit not fancy underground railways" or what have you.. But he strikes me as more classy than that.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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This is why nothing ever gets done in Toronto. Gardner, transit etc...all delayed for years because there is no direction that all can agree on or at least live with. This same debate will be happening years from now. How do other cities continue to move forward and ours is mired in debates, studies and policies that are constantly reversed? Toronto is not the world class city some think it is, its a dysfunctional mess.
i agree. love it or hate it. lets move on
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
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Well this guy just relegated himself into the Mayoral LOSS category.
I agree and I think this particular subway extension is a waste. Everyone (including Ford who promised not to raise taxes and will for this) are facing elections soon so they are dropping billions for votes. The Liberals who dropped $ billion in the last election to cancel an unpopular power plant just dropped twice that on two subway stops. Sadly the general population seems not only to loose the concept of how much a billion dollars is but also who will pay for it.
 

Jennifer_

New member
I agree and I think this particular subway extension is a waste. Everyone (including Ford who promised not to raise taxes and will for this) are facing elections soon so they are dropping billions for votes. The Liberals who dropped $ billion in the last election to cancel an unpopular power plant just dropped twice that on two subway stops. Sadly the general population seems not only to loose the concept of how much a billion dollars is but also who will pay for it
What is more unfortunate than the Billion wasted by the Liberals (which would've been wasted by every provincial party) is that people bring it up all the time while not realizing that the wasted money for a ridiculously-unnecessary subway project will affect them more.

Stintz and Robbie are wasting more money with the subway than the "evil" Liberals....
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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Other factors of course are that subways operate at greater speeds than do streetcars, and subways are not normally affected by winter weather in the way that streetcars often are.
 

Jennifer_

New member
Other factors of course are that subways operate at greater speeds than do streetcars, and subways are not normally affected by winter weather in the way that streetcars often are.
LRTs are not streetcars.

(PS - I have been stuck on a SUBWAY during snowstorms... once I was stuck for over an hour on the tracks between Wilson and Yorkdale for over an hour during rush hour in a snow storm).
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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(PS - I have been stuck on a SUBWAY during snowstorms... once I was stuck for over an hour on the tracks between Wilson and Yorkdale for over an hour during rush hour in a snow storm).
Which is currently elevated also called above ground subway track is it not? I understood that they were talking of traditional tunnel subways, if not then the advantages of a subway largely disappear.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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The don't get it that Subways are a better form of transit period (or only want the DRL and screw the suburbs). Oh and for the record again its THREE subway stops not TWO. With the third extending over the 401 to Sheppard bringing subway service to a lot more people when you include the feeder routes.

He will not win because a decision is made and people are sick of the debate back and forth. I'm also out on a limb but I think an announcement is coming (once the feds give in a balanced budget) for more funds to extend the sheppard line as well to close that loop. If it does then who ever continues support for subways will win.

You think the PM and Finance Minister attended those Ford Fests just for a free hot dog?

Oh and I've also heard the number 1 billion per year to be added to the TTC budget to run those three stops. Bullshit. It doesn't take that much to run three extra stops. Kill the RT and at best its a wash for payroll and servicing.

I'm happpy to pay more for correct choices in long term infrastructure building.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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I like him so far...
Me too.

I will vote for Soknacki, provided that I'm not contributing to a vote split that leads to Olivia Chow getting elected as mayor.

If it looks like voters might have to rally around another candidate (even Ford) to stop Chow, I might have to end my support for Soknacki. But at this point, he is my preferred candidate. He appears to be much better than Tory, Stintz or Minnan-Wong.
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
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Oh and I've also heard the number 1 billion per year to be added to the TTC budget to run those three stops.
I believe that is to build them - I can't understand why it would cost anymore to service a subway than an above ground option.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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I believe that is to build them - I can't understand why it would cost anymore to service a subway than an above ground option.
$1billion is the figure to subsidize the service of those 3 unnecessary, unneeded and totally wasteful stations over a 30 year period because the ridership projections of a subway extension fall woefully below a financially sound investment decision and fiscally conservative break even point.

Subways in the case of the 3 stop Scarboro extension vs. the 7 stop LRT right of right of way extension of the BD line are not a better form of transit, as the LRT would be operationally viable both financially and fiscally because the LRT ridership projections best meet the form of transit criteria by all measures. Financially, that being it will cost Toronto taxpayers NOTHING. Fiscally, that being that it will be operationally viable and not require subsidies. But most importantly it will serve and attract more ridership, double the number in fact, bringing them to and from the places they actually live, work, and play.

Here are the numbers:

Subway - A $1billion property tax increase for the city's capital expenditure
LRT - ZERO property tax increase

Subway - A $1billion operating subsidy most likely to borne completely by Toronto taxpayers
LRT - ZERO operating subsidy

Subway - 3 stations none of which are at rider rich locations such as Centennial College
LRT - 7 stations located where people actually go to and come from

Subway - 8000 - 12,000 projected ridership
LRT - 18,000 projected ridership

The numbers are pretty clear and should be well known to most as this has been debated many times before, but the riders on the STUPD TRAIN apparently like wasteful and STUPID spending.
 
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Lovehobby

Banned
Sep 25, 2013
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Cheaper? Lrt no tax increase money there now.

faster? Lrt built in half the time.

service? Lrt 7 stations not 3

duh.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
172
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The numbers are pretty clear and should be well known to most as this has been debated many times before, but the riders on the STUPID TRAIN apparently like wasteful and STUPID spending.
I assume Kathleen Wynne and Brad Duguid are among those you say are on the "STUPID TRAIN."

Training Colleges and Universities Minister Brad Duguid suggested Soknacki’s idea should be short-turned.

“We’ve been through this debate round and round and round,” said Duguid, who represents the riding of Scarborough Centre.

Duguid, one of the politicians in Premier Kathleen Wynne’s government who pushed for a reversal on the province’s initial LRT plan, said he’s proud that they’re providing support to get the subway built in Scarborough.

“To reopen the debate now is probably not something that I think my residents would welcome,” he said.

“They want to see us build a subway — they’ve been loud and clear about that.”
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/14/soknacki-scarborough-subway-pledge-draws-fire
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,251
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