New military choppers now 5 yrs late and no delivery date in sight.

blackrock13

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Another classic example of how well the Harper gang is running the asylum, especially the military wing.
 

Aardvark154

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Anyone besides myself remember when the contract was cancelled in 1993 by Jean Chrétien and how many millions in penalties etc. . . that cost?
 

Aardvark154

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Not really Blackrock that contract was for the replacement of the Sea Kings (the shipboard ASW helicopter requirement)

That is what these twenty years later this contract is finally doing.
 

CapitalGuy

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Not really Blackrock that contract was for the replacement of the Sea Kings (the shipboard ASW helicopter requirement)

That is what these twenty years later this contract is finally doing.

Correct. Blackrock is simply on a "Harper is Hitler" rant. Jean Chretien gave the Canadian taxpayer the wonderful gift of a $500 MILLION contract cancellation payment to the winning bidder, to make a political point. What a fucking idiot. Half a billion TAXPAYER dollars, given away for nothing. And 20 years later, its only now that Mr. Harper is finally un-fucking the mess the Liberals left Canada.

But, why pay attention to history and facts, when one can simply bleat about Harper?
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Not really Blackrock that contract was for the replacement of the Sea Kings (the shipboard ASW helicopter requirement)

That is what these twenty years later this contract is finally doing.
Correct. Blackrock is simply on a "Harper is Hitler" rant. Jean Chretien gave the Canadian taxpayer the wonderful gift of a $500 MILLION contract cancellation payment to the winning bidder, to make a political point. What a fucking idiot. Half a billion TAXPAYER dollars, given away for nothing. And 20 years later, its only now that Mr. Harper is finally un-fucking the mess the Liberals left Canada.

But, why pay attention to history and facts, when one can simply bleat about Harper?
I should have made it more clear when I said different.

First off, a couple of times I've said Chretien made a mistake by canceling the conservative governments original order for Cormorants, claiming we didn't need Cadillacs replacing the order with the Sikorsky order in 2004 under Martin, after way too much time, not his finest hour.

The 'difference' is that since the Conservatives took over inn 2006, helicopters requirements have been changed a few times for the end products by the military, but don't for a second believe the Harper government didn't have input in these changes. It's been Harper's baby for almost 8 years now and still nothing.

It was tough to find a single document to outline this, but this one does a fair job, except it's from one of the parties in the fiasco. I'm sure if you got Sikorsky's version it would be different. What was started out to be off the shelf moderately priced purchases, have turned out to be anything but.

The Conservative have even repeated the circus with the Chi nook purchases.

from: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/mobil/news-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=4158

Maritime Helicopter Project: Status

FT 12.005 - February 25, 2013
Context

The Maritime Helicopter Project is a complex program that involves the delivery of 28 state‑of‑the-art, combat-capable CH-148 Cyclone helicopters, associated logistical and in-service support, and spare parts. The project also includes modifications to the Halifax-class ships and construction of a new training facility equipped with a full training suite of flight, mission and maintenance simulators.
The new CH-148 Cyclone, in its final configuration, will be at the forefront of modern technology and one of the most capable maritime helicopters in the world.
Chronology of Events


  • November 2004: The Government of Canada announced the signing of two separate but interrelated contracts with Sikorsky International Operations Inc. (Sikorsky) for the Maritime Helicopter Project.
    • Acquisition: The first contract, worth $1.8 billion, was for 28 fully integrated, certified and qualified helicopters with their mission systems installed, to replace the Canadian Armed Forces’ CH-124 Sea King helicopter fleet. Delivery of the first helicopter was expected in November 2008.
    • Maintenance/Infrastructure: The second contract, valued at $3.2 billion, was for 20 years of in-service support for the helicopters, and included a simulator, training suite, and the construction of a training facility.
  • January 2008: Sikorsky formally claimed for schedule relief because of “excusable delays,” thereby advising the government of a delay in the planned delivery date.
  • December 2008: Public Works and Government Services Canada (PWGSC), along with the Department of National Defence (DND), worked toward resolution with Sikorsky. The contract was amended to reflect a new, tiered schedule with delivery of interim helicopters beginning in November 2010, and delivery of fully compliant helicopters beginning in June 2012.As a result of the contract amendment, the new contract values were now $1.9 billion for acquisition and $3.4 billion for long term in-service support.
  • Fall 2009: Sikorsky advised the Government of Canada of potential difficulties delivering an interim helicopter with fully compliant mission systems software by November 2010.
  • February/March 2010:The first round of Ship/Helicopter Operating Limitations (SHOL) trials was successfully completed. The objective of the SHOL trials was to test and validate the design of the ship modification of the hangar and flight deck for Cyclone compatibility. These trials also demonstrated and determined safe flight parameters for future ship/helicopter operations, and developed standard operating procedures.
  • June 30, 2010: The contract was amended for a second time and both the government and Sikorsky agreed that Canada would take delivery of the first six interim helicopters with a preliminary version of the mission software starting on November 30, 2010. There was no change in contract values associated with this amendment.
  • Fall 2010: Sikorsky advised the Government of Canada that there would be further delays to the delivery of the interim maritime helicopters.
  • January/February 2011: The second round of Ship/Helicopter Operating Limitations (SHOL) trials was successfully completed. The objective of the SHOL2 trials was to continue evaluation on the CH-148 and Halifax‑Class ship aviation facilities compatibility, and to develop launch-recovery, vertical replenishment, helicopter in flight refuelling, rescue hoist, and deck-handling under the very demanding sea state conditions that will be experienced when the Cyclone enters operational service.
  • Sikorsky has stationed four interim maritime helicopters at 12 Wing Shearwater as part of Sikorsky’s contractual obligation to deliver initial cadre training to Canadian Armed Forces personnel.
    • May 12, 2011: Arrival of the first interim helicopter (MH 806) at 12 Wing Shearwater.
    • May 17, 2012: MH 806 left 12 Wing Shearwater for the Sikorsky facility at West Palm Beach, Florida to undergo modifications prior to returning to at a later date.
    • June 7, 2012: Arrival of interim maritime helicopter (MH 804) to 12 Wing Shearwater.
    • June 16, 2012: Arrival of interim maritime helicopter (MH 808) to 12 Wing Shearwater.
    • August 3, 2012: Arrival of interim maritime helicopter (MH 807) to 12 Wing Shearwater.
    • September 25, 2012: MH 806 returned to 12 Wing Shearwater after having underdone modifications at the Sikorsky facility in West Palm Beach, Florida
  • These helicopters remain the property of Sikorsky, and are being used as ground‑based aids to support the training of technicians. This includes hands‑on practical training for various maintenance tasks, and post-maintenance functional checks to ensure proper operation of aircraft systems. Training for technicians began in August 2012.
  • Current Status:
    • Some critical work remains outstanding before the Canadian Armed Forces can take formal delivery of the first interim maritime helicopters. Most notably, a Canadian military flight clearance and training for the initial cadre of aircrew and technicians need to be completed.
    • DND continues to closely monitor progress towards achieving all delivery requirements for the interim maritime helicopters, as well as the potential impact on the schedule for delivery of the final version of the Cyclone.

Even now the military has been pushed aside of the purchase process, causing more delays.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Another classic example of how well the Harper gang is running the asylum, especially the military wing.
Uh, you do recall that Mulroney had ordered a fleet of Agusta Westland EH101 Cormorants (widely acknowledged as THEE best helicopter in the world) and Chretien cancelled the contract because he despised the Canadian military and the liberals pretty much had to pay huge cancellation penalties. Later, when search and rescue needed new helicopters, Chretien was furious that they ordered Cormorants to replace their aging Sea Kings.

You do remember that right? (Rhetorical question since it's obvious you don't have a clue of what you're talking about as usual).

And you do remember that it was the Martin liberals who ordered the Sikorski helicopters in question (a new and totally unproven design) rather than look like even bigger fools if they ordered the EH 101's after all right.

"and your wise men don't know how it feels
to be thick as a brick."
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Uh, you do recall that Mulroney had ordered a fleet of Agusta Westland EH101 Cormorants (widely acknowledged as THEE best helicopter in the world) and Chretien cancelled the contract because he despised the Canadian military and the liberals pretty much had to pay huge cancellation penalties. Later, when search and rescue needed new helicopters, Chretien was furious that they ordered Cormorants to replace their aging Sea Kings.

You do remember that right? (Rhetorical question since it's obvious you don't have a clue of what you're talking about as usual).

And you do remember that it was the Martin liberals who ordered the Sikorski helicopters in question (a new and totally unproven design) rather than look like even bigger fools if they ordered the EH 101's after all right.

"and your wise men don't know how it feels
to be thick as a brick."
Yes, I remember.

From post #7

First off, a couple of times I've said Chretien made a mistake by canceling the conservative governments original order for Cormorants, claiming we didn't need Cadillacs replacing the order with the Sikorsky order in 2004 under Martin, after way too much time, not his finest hour.
It's not me that's thick as a brick. It also wasn't so much he hated the military, but more a case NIH.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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To my mind a good question is why the CH-148 was selected rather than a Canadian version of the SH-60F or MH-60R (the USN's Seahawk).
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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Uh, you do recall that Mulroney had ordered a fleet of Agusta Westland EH101 Cormorants (widely acknowledged as THEE best helicopter in the world) and Chretien cancelled the contract because he despised the Canadian military and the liberals pretty much had to pay huge cancellation penalties. Later, when search and rescue needed new helicopters, Chretien was furious that they ordered Cormorants to replace their aging Sea Kings.

You do remember that right? (Rhetorical question since it's obvious you don't have a clue of what you're talking about as usual).

And you do remember that it was the Martin liberals who ordered the Sikorski helicopters in question (a new and totally unproven design) rather than look like even bigger fools if they ordered the EH 101's after all right.

"and your wise men don't know how it feels
to be thick as a brick."
In hindsight, we were kinda lucky he cancelled the EH-101's, they have proven to be very problematic machines with serious tail rotor problems that have only recently been repaired. I think the problem with these new helos is DND tried to cram so much into them, it was difficult to predict how all those systems would work together.. and now here we are.
 
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