NHL and NHLPA In Denial

[The Doctor]

Yesterday in London, Ontario, Dick Pound (who just happens to have the all time greatest porn name) made the claim that up to 1/3 of the NHL players are on some form of Pharmaceuitical peformance enhancing substance. The NHL and NHLPA responded by stating that not only is he wrong with his claim but that he does not know "their game" and is in no position to make such ridiculous claims.

How stupid can they be? Did they not learn anything from baseball's recent debacle? Now by not setting any parameters for his classification of "pharmaceuitical performance enhancing substance" his claim is so general and wide ranging that anything from an over the counter creotin suppliment right through full blown roids could fall into this group. Given that I believe that his claim significantly underestimates the number of players that may guilty.

Now the NHL and the PA may question his numbers and the basis for his claim, but they shouldn't have outright denials to the claims, similar to baseball's claims 18 months ago, nor should they be questioning Pound's position in making the statement. As head of WADA, not only is he in a position to make the claim, it's his job.

I listened yesterday to their reponses and all I could do was picture was Bud Selig's ugly face and laugh.

 

[superquad1968]

I'll agree with you that there are steroids in hockey and I'll agree with you about the porn name.

But.

I have had enough of Dick Pound poking his nose in everything. I'd rather have seen him become head of the IOC where he would have to be a little more diplomatic. As it is he is a pompous arrogant self-important turd. Figure he's a lawyer.

 

[The Doctor]

Fair enough, but performance enhancing substances are at the root of all things bad in sports. It's and ugly game and it calls for ugly tactics and for the most part, if you're in his sights, you're there for a very good reason. He's a good lawyer who knows better than to just shoot off his mouth without something to back him up.

 

[superquad1968]

He's a good lawyer who knows better than to just shoot off his mouth without something to back him up.

He shot his mouth off in the Rio Ferdinand case and everyobne told him to fark off.

 

[A-ROD]

1) Dick Pound is an idiot

2) Probably 1/3 or more of players are on performance enhancing drugs

3) Dick Pound is an idiot

4) The NHL better open it's eyes and take care of the problem

5) Dick Pound is an idiot

6) The NHL players better be careful during the olympics, because it is now fashionable to go after pro athletes

7) Dick Pound is an idiot

 

[The Doctor]

I don't know about him being a dick. It's an unpopular job and I give him credit for trying to clean everything up.

 

[A-ROD]

I don't know about him being a dick. It's an unpopular job and I give him credit for trying to clean everything up.

He does not understand diplomacy... It's obvipous why he didn't get the top job which he wanted badly. He is trying to make noise so that he will be noticed. Olympic corporate advertisers will soon put pressure on the Olympic committee to fire him.

Some of these athletes that he is mouthing about are sponsored by these same people.

His job is to catch the culprits, not cry to the media everytime he wants his name in print.

He is not a genious, everyone farkin' knows that a large group of all athletes are on something.

Dick Pound is an Idiot, soon to be an Idiot with no job

 

[A-ROD]

he may or may not be a dick, but he has the kahonas to identify the problem publicly.

Like nobody knows there is a problem. He is brilliant??

A little like closing the barn door once all the horses have escaped

 

[The Doctor]

Like I said, it's an unpopular job...if he were a diplomat, he'd get nowhere. Perhaps that's what you'd prefer.

A-ROD, it would seem to be that you aren't in denial about the use of drugs in sport but seem more cynical and believe that it's to prevalent to ever clean everything up and that the athletes are always a step or two ahead. That's too bad.

I guess I'd rather be a dick that apathetic or indifferent.

 

[A-ROD]

Like I said, it's an unpopular job...if he were a diplomat, he'd get nowhere. Perhaps that's what you'd prefer.

A-ROD, it would seem to be that you aren't in denial about the use of drugs in sport but seem more cynical and believe that it's to prevalent to ever clean everything up and that the athletes are always a step or two ahead. That's too bad.

I guess I'd rather be a dick that apathetic or indifferent.

He won't clean it up in the media.
I want to see proper programs put in place and adhered to.
Too many times they appear to pick specific athletes and try send a message.
I want to see a rule in place

1'st time banned for life.

Actions speak better than words. I am tired of hearing everyone from the US Goverment to Dick Pound accuse people but do nothing "SIGNIFICANT" to stop it.

 

[21pro]

I 100% agree A-ROD.

 

[The Doctor]

He won't clean it up in the media.
I want to see proper programs put in place and adhered to.
Too many times they appear to pick specific athletes and try send a message.
I want to see a rule in place

1'st time banned for life.

Actions speak better than words. I am tired of hearing everyone from the US Goverment to Dick Pound accuse people but do nothing "SIGNIFICANT" to stop it.

The athletes behave like they have impunity. Do you not think that making examples of a few very high profile sports and athelets will have a dramatic effect? Baseball was in denial during the congressional hearings and now they look like clowns. After a year of suspensions, they up their penalties significantly. Could they/should they go farther yes. But they only went this far because of those silly congressmen in Washington. If it weren't for that they'd still be ignoring the issue.

WADA is only the testing agency, the punishments are imposed by the sports sanctioning bodies....the same group that chooses quite frequently to sweep certain positive tests under the rug. The testing programs are in place, and results are provided, but it's up to the IOC, the NHL, MLB IIAF, FIFA etc to take the steps to add teeth to the penalties. Don't blame Pound for that.

I think when Pound takes his shots in the media it puts a lot of pressure on the governing bodies, the leagues and the athletes to address it or be exposed for the lying bastards that they are. I'm quite sure that there were more than a few people people at NHL rinks around North America cleaning all of their supliments out of their lockers after hearing the comments yesterday. No one wants to be the first one caught, especially if you've been one of the big players denying the accusations i.e. Palmiero. It's not if, it's when will they be caught. If there's no teeth in the penalties imposed by their governing body, there are big teeth in the media who love a scandal. Just look at the Lance Armstrong fiasco. He can't be penalized now, but he can be hurt financially and it's got a lot of people questioning his accomplishments.

The more he makes it a media battle, the bigger the stakes/risks for the athletes who will loose all of their sponsorship dollars and their ability to make a living doing their sport. If that doesn't put pressure on all levels of sport, I don't know what will.

 

[ottawasub]

Bettman and Daly like to play Pollyana and pretend there`s no problems, but they`d better get serious about this. This is a chance for the league to show that they will take a stand against this instead of being forced to do it like baseball.

In February at the Olympics, it`s not the NHL`s rules, it`s the IOC`s. If somebody gets caught there it will be a major source of embarrassment to the NHL.

 

[shack]

Bettman and Daly like to play Pollyana and pretend there`s no problems, but they`d better get serious about this. This is a chance for the league to show that they will take a stand against this instead of being forced to do it like baseball.

In February at the Olympics, it`s not the NHL`s rules, it`s the IOC`s. If somebody gets caught there it will be a major source of embarrassment to the NHL.

They've played under IOC rules before (Olympics and World Championships) and to my knowledge no one's ever tested positive.

As that relates to your first point, if there's no problem, as Bettman and Saskin contend, they should have no issue with stringent testing and penalties. Lifetime ban for a first offense is dumb, though.

 

[21pro]

could Dick Pound be Daniel30?

 

[A-ROD]

Lifetime ban for a first offense is dumb, though.

Why would it be dumb? In this thread alot of us are sounding like the people who are now making the rules. They say things, like "Let's clamp down" ; "We should make an example of someone" etc.

Most of us at work have rules, that if broken results in our dismissal, why can't pro athletes.

If you are caught the first time you should be banned for life. They would not have to make examples of anybody, because after they banned a few the rest would probably get the message.

There would be no more useless debates about the subject, until they ban for life it will never stop.

 

[shack]

Why would it be dumb?

I guess excessive would be a better word than dumb. Even the Olympics don't ban you for life for a first time infraction. Even rapists and murderers (except for the most savage) etc. are either released after a period of time or eligible for parole at some point. Being human beings, we are all prone to mistakes and usually deserve a second chance. Our courts and other institutions, such as the IOC, recognize this and incorporate this into their judgements. Professional athletes should not be held up to a higher standard when it comes to breaking the rules of conduct.

I feel 1 year for a 1st infraction would be more than enough to deter all but the dumbest (there's that word again) athletes from cheating. Second time, you're out. An athlete's career is short enough. How many do you think would risk losing a whole year?

 

[shack]

There would be no more useless debates about the subject, until they ban for life it will never stop.

I disagree. You'll never completely eliminate it. There will always be some cheaters no matter how severe the penalty. Even the death sentence doesn't eliminate all murders.

As I proposed, I believe 1 year and then life would come just about as close to completely eliminating it as lifetime for a 1st infraction.

 

[21pro]

He's a good lawyer who knows better than to just shoot off his mouth without something to back him up.

that doesn't equate to 'therefore, he's right'.

how many players can you name use performance enhancing drugs?

the fact is, not alot of hockey players use performance enhancing drugs at the professional level... it doesn't do much for their game. and if they do, they use it for a very short time.

the most common players that will use is the rookie that needs a quick boost in strength when trying out for his NHL team... but still, they're far and few between.

Olympic candidates, which is the only thing DP should be concerned with, do not use perf. enhancing drugs... they are already the best in the world.

i ask you to name concrete players that currently use performance enhancing drugs?

Lance Armstrong doesn't play hockey.

 

[The Doctor]

that doesn't equate to 'therefore, he's right'.

how many players can you name use performance enhancing drugs?

Let's not forget he made a very general statement that did not specifically say steroids. He said "pharmaceuitical performancing enhancing substance" not banned substances. I think you can find enough guys using Sudafed or some other stimulant to support his cause. Afterall, they wouldn't take it if it wasn't performance enhancing.

the fact is, not alot of hockey players use performance enhancing drugs at the professional level...

It's like Betman and Saskin were saying that themselves. I say, how can you make such an unsubstantiated statement. Where's your proof?

it doesn't do much for their game.

Yeah I can see your point. Bigger, stronger and faster wouldn't be much benefit to a hockey player. Can you honestly tell me that a beaten up Gary Roberts at 185 lbs and 12% body fat was better than the current 210 lbs, 8% body fat version...not that I'm making any specific accusations about Roberts. If it wasn't so beneficial, there wouldn't be so many guys who carry blenders in their hockey bags these days.

the most common players that will use is the rookie that needs a quick boost in strength when trying out for his NHL team... but still, they're far and few between.

Again your focusing solely on steroids for this discussion. But in that vain, if they are going to take something to get there, they're going to take something to stay there. The effects are not permanent and are only sustainable through a regular program.

Olympic candidates, which is the only thing DP should be concerned with, do not use perf. enhancing drugs... they are already the best in the world.

Time will tell, but if that's correct can we make the same general statement about Olympic Sprinters, um how about Olympic weightlifters, oh no? then Olympic cross country skiers....well I get your point anyways.

i ask you to name concrete players that currently use performance enhancing drugs?

Dick doesn't have supporting evidence and neither do you. But you probably know better.

Lance Armstrong doesn't play hockey.

FINALLY...something we agree on. Lance did not play hockey (not professionally anyway).