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Ontario offers to take John A. Macdonald statue removed in Victoria

Should the statues of Sir John MacDonald be removed

  • No

    Votes: 42 91.3%
  • Yes

    Votes: 4 8.7%

  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .

Conil

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2013
4,373
1,281
113
The statue of Sir John MacDonald was removed in Victoria because natives found it offensive because he had a role in creating residential schools. Should MacDonalds statues should be removed? Answer poll please.


The Ontario government says it would be happy to acquire a statue of Sir John A. Macdonald which was recently removed from the City Hall building in Victoria, B.C.

The bronze sculpture of Canada’s first prime minister was removed on Saturday, in what Victoria’s mayor called a gesture of reconciliation. Indigenous groups have argued that Macdonald is disproportionately honoured in Canada given his role in creating the residential school system and otherwise harming Indigenous people.

While supported by Indigenous groups, the statue’s removal has also drawn criticism, particularly from conservative politicians.

Federal Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer described turfing the statue as an attempt to “erase history” and said Macdonald’s “mistakes” could be acknowledged even with the statue remaining in place.

Ontario’s Progressive Conservative government voiced similar opinions Monday when the matter came up in the provincial legislature.

Goldie Ghamari, the PC MPP representing the Ottawa-area riding of Carleton, said she was “shocked” by the decision made in Victoria, which she described as “political correctness run amok.”

She asked Sylvia Jones, the province’s minister for culture, sport and tourism, what the government would do “to preserve John A. Macdonald’s legacy and encourage a more fulsome teaching of Canadian history.”

Jones responded that the province has written to Victoria Mayor Lisa Helps to say the province would be “happy” to find the statue a new home in Ontario.

“History matters, and we need to acknowledge the important role that Sir John A. Macdonald played in Canada and Ontario’s history,” Jones said. “He did more to found our nation than any other Father of Confederation.”
Jones went on to say that Macdonald’s record “is a cause for much discussion” and encouraged Ontarians to visit statues to learn more about Canadian history.

“History is complicated. People are complicated,” she said.

It was not immediately clear if Helps has responded to Ontario’s offer. The mayor has previously said that the statue, which was created in 1981, will be stored in her city “until an appropriate way to recontextualize Macdonald is determined.”

“We do not propose to erase history but rather to take the time through the process of truth-telling and reconciliation … to tell this complex and painful chapter of Canadian history in a thoughtful way,” Helps said in a blog post.

The statue was replaced outside Victoria City Hall by a temporary plaque which commemorates Macdonald as both Canada’s first prime minister and “a leader of violence against Indigenous peoples.”

The plaque was vandalized over the weekend, with a large X being scratched across its face. The two lines in the X meet near the word “violence.”

Helps said the vandalism “was to be expected” given the intensity of the debate around the statue’s removal.

“Emotions are running high,” she told reporters.

“What we will be doing in the next few months … is continuing the conversation with the community about reconciliation.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...acdonald-statue-removed-in-victoria-1.4051015
 

Fathammer

Banned
Mar 9, 2018
961
0
16
Hahahahahahaha......

Native Indians upset they were FORCED to get educated and now they say it harmed them. Typical.

Life in a tent is far more less harming I guess.

A life of selling cheap smokes and gas coupled with living in a lazy community living a life of crime far outweighs living the Canadian Dream I guess?

Dont these natives think before they protest???
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
17,872
242
63
Hahahahahahaha......

Native Indians upset they were FORCED to get educated and now they say it harmed them. Typical.

Life in a tent is far more less harming I guess.

A life of selling cheap smokes and gas coupled with living in a lazy community living a life of crime far outweighs living the Canadian Dream I guess?

Dont these natives think before they protest???
The problem with residential schools was that they were punished for practicing their own culture and there was physical and sexual abuse in those schools.

Speaking to First Nations people they say that this affected a generation of kids who weren't equipped to parent due to being sent to these schools.

As for the 4th line I'm going to chalk that up to trolling.

Me personally I don't have a feeling one way or the other for John A. He's far removed enough that he seems like an abstract concept. But I understand that people affected by residential schools would obviously feel differently and their feelings matter more than people who weren't affected.
 

Fathammer

Banned
Mar 9, 2018
961
0
16
The problem with residential schools was that they were punished for practicing their own culture and there was physical and sexual abuse in those schools.


.
You mean like whats happening still today in our school and social system?

You're not making sense.

Over 150 years ago things were primitive. Schools alone had every grade in one class room. Was is the best idea? Back then, yes. Now we see that teaching children in seperate grades and classrooms is better. Do we protest the ideas of 100 years ago? NO! We live and learn.

Did Sir john know what the out come of educating Indians would be? Probably not. However, they were given a chance to learn. Now they demand to erase history???? Really? Sir John did more for Canada than try to civilize Indians. Why cant the his accomplishments be honored?

Typical political correctness has turned this world into a place where if you dont like something, just get rid of it. Sad.

I guess you cant teach wild people to live in a civilized world?
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
10,592
9,242
113
How many times does our,and future generations have to apologize for something that happened 150 years ago?

Enough is enough..
 

Zaibetter

Banned
Mar 27, 2016
4,284
1
0
Victoria is over the top politically correct, California style. MacDonald is on our money and everywhere if there was a serious problem, things would've changed years ago.
 

LickingGravity

New member
Sep 9, 2010
962
0
0
The problem with residential schools wasn't the politicians so much as yet another failing of the Catholic Church that ran them. Same in Ireland with their "schools" for truant and unwed mothers etc. also run by the Catholics.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,072
3,991
113
You can't have 2 parallel societies in one country. It will not work.

Have the native people gotten the short end of the stick in the past? You betcha. But those days are long gone. I have no doubt that when whoever came up with the notion of reservations it was a form of racism and apartheid. White people wanted the native people out of sight and out of mind. But that was in the 1800s.

Fast forward 200 years and Canada is the most multicultural country in the world. No one cares or has the time to care about whether you're black, white, yellow, Catholic, Jewish, Protestant or whatever. People for the most part get along in this great big country and there is no reason the indigenous peoples of North America can not join the party.

Except they don't want to. (Ironically now THEY want to maintain apartheid )

They want their own parallel society for just them and they want it on their terms and they demand that the rest of us pay for it and apologize for the sins of people long dead and buried. All you hear from the indigenous groups is, "our traditional ways and means" over and over like a broken record. Your traditional ways and means were as hunter gatherers and living in a teepee in the forest. Those days are like the steamship era. They are gone and they aren't coming back. There is no future in being a hunter gatherer out in the remote woods somewhere.

You can't have 2 parallel societies in 1 country. It is unworkable. Unfortunately I don't see it changing any time soon.
 

saxon

Well-known member
Dec 2, 2009
4,760
525
113
He was the father of confederation. Without him Canada wouldn’t exist.
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,682
21
38
You can't have 2 parallel societies in one country. It will not work.

Have the native people gotten the short end of the stick in the past? You betcha. But those days are long gone. I have no doubt that when whoever came up with the notion of reservations it was a form of racism and apartheid. White people wanted the native people out of sight and out of mind. But that was in the 1800s.

Fast forward 200 years and Canada is the most multicultural country in the world. No one cares or has the time to care about whether you're black, white, yellow, Catholic, Jewish, Protestant or whatever. People for the most part get along in this great big country and there is no reason the indigenous peoples of North America can not join the party.

Except they don't want to. (Ironically now THEY want to maintain apartheid )

They want their own parallel society for just them and they want it on their terms and they demand that the rest of us pay for it and apologize for the sins of people long dead and buried. All you hear from the indigenous groups is, "our traditional ways and means" over and over like a broken record. Your traditional ways and means were as hunter gatherers and living in a teepee in the forest. Those days are like the steamship era. They are gone and they aren't coming back. There is no future in being a hunter gatherer out in the remote woods somewhere.

You can't have 2 parallel societies in 1 country. It is unworkable. Unfortunately I don't see it changing any time soon.
I agree, so let's remove French immersion from our schools too. It's fine to speak it in Quebec but don't impose it on the rest of the provinces where English is spoken.
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,685
1,371
113
You can't have 2 parallel societies in one country. It will not work.

Have the native people gotten the short end of the stick in the past? You betcha. But those days are long gone. I have no doubt that when whoever came up with the notion of reservations it was a form of racism and apartheid. White people wanted the native people out of sight and out of mind. But that was in the 1800s.

Fast forward 200 years and Canada is the most multicultural country in the world. No one cares or has the time to care about whether you're black, white, yellow, Catholic, Jewish, Protestant or whatever. People for the most part get along in this great big country and there is no reason the indigenous peoples of North America can not join the party.

Except they don't want to. (Ironically now THEY want to maintain apartheid )

They want their own parallel society for just them and they want it on their terms and they demand that the rest of us pay for it and apologize for the sins of people long dead and buried. All you hear from the indigenous groups is, "our traditional ways and means" over and over like a broken record. Your traditional ways and means were as hunter gatherers and living in a teepee in the forest. Those days are like the steamship era. They are gone and they aren't coming back. There is no future in being a hunter gatherer out in the remote woods somewhere.

You can't have 2 parallel societies in 1 country. It is unworkable. Unfortunately I don't see it changing any time soon.
This 100%. We're trying to find a mythical solution. It will just never happen. In the meantime, it's a black hole for money, effort and goodwill.
 

mclarkez1980

New member
Feb 19, 2017
296
1
0
Hahahahahahaha......

Native Indians upset they were FORCED to get educated and now they say it harmed them. Typical.

Life in a tent is far more less harming I guess.

A life of selling cheap smokes and gas coupled with living in a lazy community living a life of crime far outweighs living the Canadian Dream I guess?

Dont these natives think before they protest???
Wow, how do you even muster the ability to type with a brain the size of a squirrel?
Perhaps pick up a book, or are they plum out where you live in Georgetown?
 

LT56

Banned
Feb 16, 2013
1,604
1
0
I have mixed feelings about removing MacDonald’s statues...but I would not support this particular statue’s being imported to Ontario because it would essentially be giving the middle finger to Native people in BC who asked that it be removed.

If ON wants more statues of Sir John A MacDonald then we can build our own.
 

LT56

Banned
Feb 16, 2013
1,604
1
0
This is s pretty good article from The National Post about Sir John A MacDonald’s treatment of Native people:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationa...john-a-macdonald-did-to-indigenous-people/amp


The residential schools were the tip of the iceberg. MacDonald was a cruel, sadistic prick in the way he treated Native people. In all fairness, he was not particularly different from other political leaders of the era...but MacDonald still did what he did.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,761
3
0
In all fairness, [MacDonald] was not particularly different from other political leaders of the era
That is it right there.

So we can indulge in revisionist (and poor) historiography. Or we can acknowledge that many famous and important people had feet of clay and we can honour them for the good, and acknowledge the horrible.
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
17,872
242
63
You mean like whats happening still today in our school and social system?

I guess you cant teach wild people to live in a civilized world?

Treat people like animals and this is what you get.


Don't even compare the abuse in those schools to what happens today. Not the same league. Not the same sport.
 

LT56

Banned
Feb 16, 2013
1,604
1
0
That is it right there.

So we can indulge in revisionist (and poor) historiography. Or we can acknowledge that many famous and important people had feet of clay and we can honour them for the good, and acknowledge the horrible.
To me the debate over Sir John A MacDonald’s statues differs from the debate down south over confederate monuments. Statues honouring confederate soldiers are entirely about a war that the south fought to hold onto slavery; there is nothing noble nor worthy of honouring about their cause.

On the other hand, MacDonald is being honoured for his role in building Canada and being its first Prime Minister. He is not being honoured for his role in residential schools and abusing Native people. If every historical figure had to pass a morality test we would not have statues of anyone.

In MacDonald’s case, I lean toward the idea of celebrating his good works and acknowledging the bad but I can certainly understand how others may have different views. Human history is filled with both brutality and great accomplishments standing side by side. How we reconcile these things is part of how we evolve.

I suppose it raises the whole question of why we have statues in the first place and what their purpose is. Historically, statues have served to inspire the living and glorify great deeds; perhaps our statues need to evolve along with us.
 
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