I just read in todays star that Paul Marting has threatened to quit as finance Minister after Jean Cretien threatened to fire him from the post. Anyone else think if this happens we're all screwed? I don't support any of our political parties that much, but I have supported and voted for the Liberals in the last 2 elections because a) I think they're the lesser evil, and b) the one thing they've consistently done right isbalanced budgets, and Paul Martin is most responsible for that. Now if he does leave there's no way Cretien replaces him with anyone strong as he's terrified of someone trying to take his job, so if this happens this country could be in trouble, and I think I'll be voting NDP (throwaway vote but it would give me peace of mind)
Paul Martin threatens to quit
- Thread starter gramage
- Start date
I sincerely hope Martin does not resign. Watch the Canadian buck go down the crapper if that happens.
John Chretien's problem is that more and more people are coming to the conclusion that he's incompetent, and an arrogant prick to boot. Paul Martin is creditted with the turnaround in the Canadian
economy.
Chretien is blaming the Patronage leaks on Martin's camp.
Chretien has been trying to stick it to Martin for years now. The Brian Tobin thing was a prime example.
If Chretien is not going to run again, he shouldn't have any problem with anyone fundraising. I think he's really gone too far this time.
John Chretien's problem is that more and more people are coming to the conclusion that he's incompetent, and an arrogant prick to boot. Paul Martin is creditted with the turnaround in the Canadian
economy.
Chretien is blaming the Patronage leaks on Martin's camp.
Chretien has been trying to stick it to Martin for years now. The Brian Tobin thing was a prime example.
If Chretien is not going to run again, he shouldn't have any problem with anyone fundraising. I think he's really gone too far this time.
From an international perspective, I think the resignation of Martin will be viewed as a strong negative. As clipper points out, the Loonie will take a major hit if he goes.
From a Canadian perspective, I think it's just another indication that Chretien is determined to hold on to the reigns of power well past his best before date. In politics, it's sometimes necessary to eliminate those who would challenge your position - that's the way the game is played. (Which is one of many reasons I try to avoid politics as much as I can.) But on the other hand, I've always thought the ultimate sign of a great leader is that he knows when it's time to quit. Trudeau left gracefully. Heck, even Mulroney called it a day when it was clear the end was near.
Losing Martin will be a bad day for Canadian politics. Who's going to be left after he's gone?
From a Canadian perspective, I think it's just another indication that Chretien is determined to hold on to the reigns of power well past his best before date. In politics, it's sometimes necessary to eliminate those who would challenge your position - that's the way the game is played. (Which is one of many reasons I try to avoid politics as much as I can.) But on the other hand, I've always thought the ultimate sign of a great leader is that he knows when it's time to quit. Trudeau left gracefully. Heck, even Mulroney called it a day when it was clear the end was near.
Losing Martin will be a bad day for Canadian politics. Who's going to be left after he's gone?
yeah but Mulrony left early to avoid the humiliation of being destroyed in the election. do you remember a few years ago Mulrony claiming he would have won the election if he'd run? as Air Farce said, if he'd given it a shot 26 million Canadians would have taken a shot at him.
I vote for Martin.
I have always been socially very liberal, but economically conservative.
I don't believe in gov't legislating morality, but they have to live within their budgets.
In all my life, Martin is the only responsible finance minister i can remember.
It will be a very scary day for Canada if he quits. The other fat cats seem eager to spend more and more and more every year. Only Martin seems to have enough brains to say NO. If you remove Martin, I fear the return of deficit spending, and our economy will slow just like the Americans seem to be under W.
Chretien is incompetant. When he speaks, he says the dumbest things ever. I have several French Canadian friends and i have asked them if he is as big of a clown in French as he is in English.
The answer is an overwhelming - he's a clown in French too.
He is just another fossil trying to hold onto power TOO long. Chretien has been at this game for 40 years. Enough already jean, don't try to pull a maggie thather and hold on too long and look like an even more pathetic fool than you already look like.
I think that now is the time for Martin to finally take on Chretien. He (Chretien) is weaker than ever. He owes his existance to the fact that the right is even more screwed up than he is. If there was an effective opposition in this country, Chretien would have been out on his ass years ago.
It's time for Chretien to take a walk in the snow.
I have always been socially very liberal, but economically conservative.
I don't believe in gov't legislating morality, but they have to live within their budgets.
In all my life, Martin is the only responsible finance minister i can remember.
It will be a very scary day for Canada if he quits. The other fat cats seem eager to spend more and more and more every year. Only Martin seems to have enough brains to say NO. If you remove Martin, I fear the return of deficit spending, and our economy will slow just like the Americans seem to be under W.
Chretien is incompetant. When he speaks, he says the dumbest things ever. I have several French Canadian friends and i have asked them if he is as big of a clown in French as he is in English.
The answer is an overwhelming - he's a clown in French too.
He is just another fossil trying to hold onto power TOO long. Chretien has been at this game for 40 years. Enough already jean, don't try to pull a maggie thather and hold on too long and look like an even more pathetic fool than you already look like.
I think that now is the time for Martin to finally take on Chretien. He (Chretien) is weaker than ever. He owes his existance to the fact that the right is even more screwed up than he is. If there was an effective opposition in this country, Chretien would have been out on his ass years ago.
It's time for Chretien to take a walk in the snow.
Well, I heard on the news on my way home that our clown of a Prime Minister fired Paul Martin.
Obviously the clown feels incredibly threatened by Martin.
I can only hope that this is the begining of the end for Chretien.
Obviously the clown feels incredibly threatened by Martin.
I can only hope that this is the begining of the end for Chretien.
easy rider, this section of terb the lounge is open discussion area, where any topic is discussed. The other sections such as toronto strip clubs, massage and escorts are boards that are meant specifically for those purposes.
as for the paul martin thing, i doubt the loonie will take a major dive now that he is gone. it might drop a cent or two at the most but will stabalize shortly. The business worl looks at fundamentals, not personalities and the loonie will only be affected in the short term.
i have a major hatred for the liberals, but the more i think of it, my hatred is directed more towards chretien. he has a dictatorial leadership style that is unhealthy for canada, he is arrogant and self serving. I have worked for another political party for the past two elections trying to defeat the liberals, but now that i think of it, if chretien were out and martin was in as PM, i would have no problem with a liberal government. i am even contemplating taking out a liberal membership so i can vote against chretien at next febuarys liberal leadership review, that might be something to think about for anyone else that likes the liberals but hates chretien.
anyways, i hope chretien firing martin comes back to haunt him.
as for the paul martin thing, i doubt the loonie will take a major dive now that he is gone. it might drop a cent or two at the most but will stabalize shortly. The business worl looks at fundamentals, not personalities and the loonie will only be affected in the short term.
i have a major hatred for the liberals, but the more i think of it, my hatred is directed more towards chretien. he has a dictatorial leadership style that is unhealthy for canada, he is arrogant and self serving. I have worked for another political party for the past two elections trying to defeat the liberals, but now that i think of it, if chretien were out and martin was in as PM, i would have no problem with a liberal government. i am even contemplating taking out a liberal membership so i can vote against chretien at next febuarys liberal leadership review, that might be something to think about for anyone else that likes the liberals but hates chretien.
anyways, i hope chretien firing martin comes back to haunt him.
STRAW VOTE
If this thread is a straw vote on Martin vs Chretien, the results are pretty conclusive, with Chretien batting ZERO.
Can't anyone defend Chretien? I will give him credit for one good move - appointing Paul Martin as Minister of Finance in the first place. This is probably the only good thing that Jean Chretien has done for Canada!
shepherd
If this thread is a straw vote on Martin vs Chretien, the results are pretty conclusive, with Chretien batting ZERO.
Can't anyone defend Chretien? I will give him credit for one good move - appointing Paul Martin as Minister of Finance in the first place. This is probably the only good thing that Jean Chretien has done for Canada!
shepherd
I'll defend Chretien!
Jean Chretien - I have no problem defending him. It's not Jean's fault that we have a one party, totalitarian government. Nooooo, it's Brian Mulroney's fault since if had he not been such an inept moron bringing in the GST, crawling in bed with the separatists under the guise of the Bloc Quebecois or going partying up at Meech Lake in the name of national unity we still have a conservative movement as a force federally.
It's not Jean's fault that the Conservatives elected Joe Clark as leader. Joe refuses to read the writing on the wall that with the conservative movement split he'll never get to play in the sandbox at 24 Sussex. It's not Jean's fault that the petty squabbles between the CA & Conservatives offer little or no opposition and hence no attempt at keeping corruption and scandal at bay within the Federal Government.
It's not Jean's fault that his buddy took the money bag at the Shawinigan golf course. Hell Jean was just trying to be a stand up guy and peddle his influence that came with being elected. It's the voters fault that we gave him the opportunity and the power. I submit that it's Jean's parents fault for not practicing birth control and shipping Little Jean out in a spent rubber!
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I didn't vote for the Canadian Head of State. I didn't vote for the Prime Minister. I didn't vote for the Senate or the Judiciary. In fact, like the majority of Canadians I did not even vote for the Liberals. Something is definately wrong with this picture.
I submit that we should adopt the American approach of recall and be able to summarily dismiss any corrupt and incompetant politician prior to the end of their term. We could also run our own unique form of Survivor with a twist. Once a month we vote a politican off the island and shoot 'em in the back off the head.
Then again it wouldn't be Jean's fault if he didn't die because the man has no brain!
Jean Chretien - I have no problem defending him. It's not Jean's fault that we have a one party, totalitarian government. Nooooo, it's Brian Mulroney's fault since if had he not been such an inept moron bringing in the GST, crawling in bed with the separatists under the guise of the Bloc Quebecois or going partying up at Meech Lake in the name of national unity we still have a conservative movement as a force federally.
It's not Jean's fault that the Conservatives elected Joe Clark as leader. Joe refuses to read the writing on the wall that with the conservative movement split he'll never get to play in the sandbox at 24 Sussex. It's not Jean's fault that the petty squabbles between the CA & Conservatives offer little or no opposition and hence no attempt at keeping corruption and scandal at bay within the Federal Government.
It's not Jean's fault that his buddy took the money bag at the Shawinigan golf course. Hell Jean was just trying to be a stand up guy and peddle his influence that came with being elected. It's the voters fault that we gave him the opportunity and the power. I submit that it's Jean's parents fault for not practicing birth control and shipping Little Jean out in a spent rubber!
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I didn't vote for the Canadian Head of State. I didn't vote for the Prime Minister. I didn't vote for the Senate or the Judiciary. In fact, like the majority of Canadians I did not even vote for the Liberals. Something is definately wrong with this picture.
I submit that we should adopt the American approach of recall and be able to summarily dismiss any corrupt and incompetant politician prior to the end of their term. We could also run our own unique form of Survivor with a twist. Once a month we vote a politican off the island and shoot 'em in the back off the head.
Then again it wouldn't be Jean's fault if he didn't die because the man has no brain!
Chretien's Folly
JC has just ensured that the leadership review in Feb 2003 will go against him. Martin will likely be chosen the new leader
and win the next election. Chretien will hang on til the bitter end.
I really think Canada needs an electoral system that reflects the popular vote. There would be a lot more minority governments, but that might be a good thing.
The system we have now just makes politicians arrogant, whether in Ottawa or Queen's Park. Trouble is, only they can change the rules and nobody in power wants to.
JC has just ensured that the leadership review in Feb 2003 will go against him. Martin will likely be chosen the new leader
and win the next election. Chretien will hang on til the bitter end.
I really think Canada needs an electoral system that reflects the popular vote. There would be a lot more minority governments, but that might be a good thing.
The system we have now just makes politicians arrogant, whether in Ottawa or Queen's Park. Trouble is, only they can change the rules and nobody in power wants to.
Gramage says:
No way do I want an American system of government, one man should not run a whole country.
I believe in the US bills have to pass an elected senate and house of representatives before a president can sign them into law. In Canada we really do have a situation where the prime minister in a majority situation is an elected dictator for 4-5 years. And with no effective opposition (other than the media) it's basically a one-party state.
My point is that Canada is the country run by one man, not the US.
No way do I want an American system of government, one man should not run a whole country.
I believe in the US bills have to pass an elected senate and house of representatives before a president can sign them into law. In Canada we really do have a situation where the prime minister in a majority situation is an elected dictator for 4-5 years. And with no effective opposition (other than the media) it's basically a one-party state.
My point is that Canada is the country run by one man, not the US.
jeffery simpson has a book called "the friendly dictatorship" that sums up the absolute power in the pmo.
the last thing i want is an elected judiciary. i find it refreshing that the courts are a guardian of our rights and do not dismiss liberties based on political whims. the supreme court upholds our rights under the charter and deems some government legislation unconstitutional, which makes that legislation null and void. However the courts do take into account the objectives of the government when making a decision. The courts have deferred to parliment more and more in recent years, and i think this is a good mix between upholding civil liberties and upholding the notion of parlimentary supremacy.
i would agree though, that senate reform is needed. the senate right now is useless and the only way to make it useful is to bring in the triple e senate. elected, effective, equal.
As for the house of commons, the opposition parties seem to be slowly putting things together. The responsibility of the opposition parties is to keep pressure on the governing party, this pressure is the reason why the governing party is not actually dictatorial. The governing party wants to get re elected and if the opposition parties put enough pressure on the government regarding an issue and there is public outcry, the government usually softens its stance to appease the opposition and lessen the anger of the public. So the opposition parties do play an important role in shaping policy for this country.
Having said that, chretien is more dictatorial than most PM's have been. the reason is, there is no effective opposition so he can pass pretty much any legislation he wants, with out fear of seriously hurting his chances of being re-elected. This type of arrogance is starting to become more of an issue and could lead to chretiens eventual downfall. since there is no opposition ready to govern, the only way to get rid of chretien it seems, is to have paul martin win the liberal leadership, which is better than nothing i guess.
the last thing i want is an elected judiciary. i find it refreshing that the courts are a guardian of our rights and do not dismiss liberties based on political whims. the supreme court upholds our rights under the charter and deems some government legislation unconstitutional, which makes that legislation null and void. However the courts do take into account the objectives of the government when making a decision. The courts have deferred to parliment more and more in recent years, and i think this is a good mix between upholding civil liberties and upholding the notion of parlimentary supremacy.
i would agree though, that senate reform is needed. the senate right now is useless and the only way to make it useful is to bring in the triple e senate. elected, effective, equal.
As for the house of commons, the opposition parties seem to be slowly putting things together. The responsibility of the opposition parties is to keep pressure on the governing party, this pressure is the reason why the governing party is not actually dictatorial. The governing party wants to get re elected and if the opposition parties put enough pressure on the government regarding an issue and there is public outcry, the government usually softens its stance to appease the opposition and lessen the anger of the public. So the opposition parties do play an important role in shaping policy for this country.
Having said that, chretien is more dictatorial than most PM's have been. the reason is, there is no effective opposition so he can pass pretty much any legislation he wants, with out fear of seriously hurting his chances of being re-elected. This type of arrogance is starting to become more of an issue and could lead to chretiens eventual downfall. since there is no opposition ready to govern, the only way to get rid of chretien it seems, is to have paul martin win the liberal leadership, which is better than nothing i guess.
