Price is Irrelevent

[aussie9]

Posting this as a new thread in order to remove individual personalities from the discussion.

Everyone has the right to establish "the price is the price-no negotiation". Keeping in mind that this industry is not a level playing field and incentives have to be offered to remain competitive based on service and or price. Not sure how the math works when someone moves to an upscale condo/private location-whether that increases or decreases costs. Assume it involves big upfront costs.
On the flip side...to pay $20/40 more for a more secure,relaxed, personalized environment is generally worth it. Only issue here is being confronted by another tenant once. Moved on from that lady and did not repeat.
Flipping her over again...I have willingly paid $300 or more to see high profile/well reviewed ladies on first visit. Negotiated $200 to become a regular with most of these and even got that down to under $150 based on visiting weekly. Availability, menu extensions even improved as the price went lower.
I guess we all have different motivations and expectations as hobbyists,so...

Price is irrelevant

 

[Celticman]

One of my considerations about "higher" fees is location. Going downtown takes a lot of time for me, and if it is combined with a higher fee, it takes extra thought. I try my best to combine SPs and MPA visits with my personal and business travel. So for me it all about total value.

 

[asimca]

I agree Celticman, once you become a regular then the fees are negotiable and there always is a personal touch in the encounters there after. Price is irrelevant when it comes to one's taste, expectations and motivation, that is very well said Celticman!!

 

[nofrills]

I agree Celticman, once you become a regular then the fees are negotiable and there always is a personal touch in the encounters there after. Price is irrelevant when it comes to one's taste, expectations and motivation, that is very well said Celticman!!

I think you wanted to agree with aussie9 as he mentioned the point of negotiable fee for regular visits. If price is irrelevant then why won't you see Charlotte anymore at higher fee? I see a contradiction in your posts.

I had the pleasure of seeing Charlotte a few months back and really liked the amazing service, looks, body and everything; but the price is too high now, I will pass. The issue with terb is that as soon as we put in positive reviews, the ladies bump up their donations like gas prices ... we can't survive without gas but can find another lady with a reasonable donation and good service.

 

[aussie9]

Sorry Charlotte!, was trying to take this into a more general discussion and take the people out of it. Seems other guys want to draw you into their web.

 

[asimca]

Aussie, I like it ....

nofrills, for me price is irrelevant, but I don't have the motivation where it would seem irrelevant. Can't become a regular at the price unless I have a motivation. That's a subtle point which the OP tried to explain!

 

[nofrills]

Aussie, I like it ....

nofrills, for me price is irrelevant, but I don't have the motivation where it would seem irrelevant. Can't become a regular at the price unless I have a motivation. That's a subtle point which the OP tried to explain!

Sounds good!

 

[Madeline Rhodes]

I understand the attempt to have a civil conversation regarding rates being irrelevant in most circumstances, or where you find a higher rate justifiable.

I want to say something here though so other things can be factored in:

Most see the rates a woman in the industry posting as what she makes for an hour. Let's take 250 (it's the middle ground for most areas).

A woman charging 250 for an hour of time in your company has some realities associated with it.

1. Supplies. I do not need to define these do I? (Even buying in bulk you have up to 5$ in supplies during an hour and higher if not buying in bulk or if one uses less common brands)
2. Make-up and personal grooming. I know we all think women randomly put it on but application, and re-application of make-up adds up. Not a cost most think of but most who wear it are spending a fair amount on it and it is amortized over many visits. Not to mention nails, razors, etc... Let's say 3$ a visit.
3. Clothing. Any given outfit will range between 30$-500$ depending on the woman in question. Yes I said 500$. Just for a bra, panties, stockings, and shoes. Shocking! Throw in a clothing request and then things get really interesting. Most have to replace things like stockings, panties, etc. (not all are gentle with a woman's clothing) regularly so we'll amortize this at 5$ per visit.
4. Ads. Backpage is 10$ a day. Terb is 75$ for 4 weeks. It adds up and fast. The other places range up to and over 100$ a month on average. We'll say this would be 3-5$ per hour amortized for many.
5. Phones. Many are paying high amounts with no-plan cells, etc. This can add up quickly also. It is often 1-2$ for every call that actually happens paying for the many inquiries that do not go through as well as time spent on your text or call.
6. Location. Be it an apartment, a condo, a motel, a hotel, or an outcall. This costs. To furnish a full time place, heat, water, cleaning supplies, linens, etc. vs a motel or hotel. You are looking at 25$-50$ per appointment for many women and for low volume providers it is sometimes more like 100$. Outcall can cost gas for those who drive them self, taxi's or a driver for those who do not. Also 25-100$ range is not nun heard of.
7. Additional expenses. We kindly add this in as it applies to many. Be it refreshments for their incall, child care, etc. we will add 15$ to this a random additional expense.

So now that we have the basic numbers these women work with every day... We are looking at an overall expense of 85$ on average for someone charging 250$ for an hour. Ranging down to around 40$ and up to 125$ based on various factors.

If at any given time a woman NEEDS to raise her rates (for whatever reason she chooses) then that is her right. If one comes to an agreement for something lower based on ongoing, regular meetings then that is their choice.

I need to caution the gentlemen here about something important:

Asking someone to give you a lower rate may in turn mean they are pocketing very little. I remember one gentleman assuming he could ask for a reduced rate and with my expenses at the time it meant I would pocket 10$. No matter how much I enjoyed his company, and all that came with it... I didn't think a fast food lunch was worth the hour transit each way, and hour there (so 3 hours of my life). It would have meant I was making 3.33$ an hour (or less with traffic) so posts like this then to having me replying. If she says no it is likely because of something along those lines.

No matter how much a woman enjoys her play time with you... Asking about giving her less without a well established history can be very insulting to her as well.

Just some perspective from someone who can speak freely on terb now.

Maddie

 

[gdurham]

not sure what the question is but I have drawn a line at the $200 per hr mark. I think it is just a mental barrier more than anything - I agree that an extra $50 is not a big deal particularly since I am now hobbying about once a month or less (due to constraints on time). I have paid over $200 in the past, on rare occaisions, and really did not think the caliber of SP was all that different.

I started hobbying not all that long ago and the rates were 140/hr if I recall correctly. I am aware of inflation etc but there just seems to be something about the $200 mark which is a barrier.

Charge what you want, the demand will adjust accordingly.

 

[oldjones]

Posting this as a new thread in order to remove individual personalities from the discussion.

Everyone has the right to establish "the price is the price-no negotiation". Keeping in mind that this industry is not a level playing field and incentives have to be offered to remain competitive based on service and or price. Not sure how the math works when someone moves to an upscale condo/private location-whether that increases or decreases costs. Assume it involves big upfront costs.
On the flip side...to pay $20/40 more for a more secure,relaxed, personalized environment is generally worth it. Only issue here is being confronted by another tenant once. Moved on from that lady and did not repeat.
Flipping her over again...I have willingly paid $300 or more to see high profile/well reviewed ladies on first visit. Negotiated $200 to become a regular with most of these and even got that down to under $150 based on visiting weekly. Availability, menu extensions even improved as the price went lower.
I guess we all have different motivations and expectations as hobbyists,so...

Price is irrelevant

Given that the entire original post and thread following it are specifically focussed on price, I think 'irrelevant' is about as far from being the appropriate descriptor as one could imagine. Not that anyone much cares, but clarity improves with better word choices.

I'd suggest 'arbitrary'.

 

[Viggo Rasmussen]

The price is whatever she can get, we don't decide for her.

 

[ultistar]

Thx for the insight Maddie.
Certainly there's some additional "hard to quantify" costs in terms of no-shows and time wasters.... altho I guess that could work both ways for the client or SP.

Most see the rates a woman in the industry posting as what she makes for an hour. Let's take 250 (it's the middle ground for most areas).

A woman charging 250 for an hour of time in your company has some realities associated with it.

1. Supplies. I do not need to define these do I? (Even buying in bulk you have up to 5$ in supplies during an hour and higher if not buying in bulk or if one uses less common brands)
2. Make-up and personal grooming. I know we all think women randomly put it on but application, and re-application of make-up adds up. Not a cost most think of but most who wear it are spending a fair amount on it and it is amortized over many visits. Not to mention nails, razors, etc... Let's say 3$ a visit.
3. Clothing. Any given outfit will range between 30$-500$ depending on the woman in question. Yes I said 500$. Just for a bra, panties, stockings, and shoes. Shocking! Throw in a clothing request and then things get really interesting. Most have to replace things like stockings, panties, etc. (not all are gentle with a woman's clothing) regularly so we'll amortize this at 5$ per visit.
4. Ads. Backpage is 10$ a day. Terb is 75$ for 4 weeks. It adds up and fast. The other places range up to and over 100$ a month on average. We'll say this would be 3-5$ per hour amortized for many.
5. Phones. Many are paying high amounts with no-plan cells, etc. This can add up quickly also. It is often 1-2$ for every call that actually happens paying for the many inquiries that do not go through as well as time spent on your text or call.
6. Location. Be it an apartment, a condo, a motel, a hotel, or an outcall. This costs. To furnish a full time place, heat, water, cleaning supplies, linens, etc. vs a motel or hotel. You are looking at 25$-50$ per appointment for many women and for low volume providers it is sometimes more like 100$. Outcall can cost gas for those who drive them self, taxi's or a driver for those who do not. Also 25-100$ range is not nun heard of.
7. Additional expenses. We kindly add this in as it applies to many. Be it refreshments for their incall, child care, etc. we will add 15$ to this a random additional expense.

So now that we have the basic numbers these women work with every day... We are looking at an overall expense of 85$ on average for someone charging 250$ for an hour. Ranging down to around 40$ and up to 125$ based on various factors.

If at any given time a woman NEEDS to raise her rates (for whatever reason she chooses) then that is her right. If one comes to an agreement for something lower based on ongoing, regular meetings then that is their choice.
....

Just some perspective from someone who can speak freely on terb now.

Maddie

 

[Madeline Rhodes]

not sure what the question is but I have drawn a line at the $200 per hr mark. I think it is just a mental barrier more than anything - I agree that an extra $50 is not a big deal particularly since I am now hobbying about once a month or less (due to constraints on time). I have paid over $200 in the past, on rare occaisions, and really did not think the caliber of SP was all that different.

I started hobbying not all that long ago and the rates were 140/hr if I recall correctly. I am aware of inflation etc but there just seems to be something about the $200 mark which is a barrier.

Charge what you want, the demand will adjust accordingly.

In 2005 (your join date 8 years ago) the rates were not 140$ in Toronto. The average that time was 180-220$ for incall with around half in the 250-300$ range for outcall also. I recall many trips to Durham on a per-request basis even before then and was getting 250+.

You may have a personal barrier to not go over 200$, but many of the women have a personal minimum because any less then that and either the expenses kill them, or they feel used and taken advantage of. At the end of the day there will always be someone who meets your budgetary requirements. The real question is do you get the experience you truly deserve?

Thx for the insight Maddie.
Certainly there's some additional "hard to quantify" costs in terms of no-shows and time wasters.... altho I guess that could work both ways for the client or SP.

Indeed it can work both ways. I also know that many times men are complaining about being "rushed" or no "msog" when looking at those who have set their rates lower. It is all a matter of perspective. At the end of the day all of the women have to make ends meet. Do they want to see 1-2 people or 4+ to do so?

 

[justawildchild]

I understand the attempt to have a civil conversation regarding rates being irrelevant in most circumstances, or where you find a higher rate justifiable.

I want to say something here though so other things can be factored in:

Most see the rates a woman in the industry posting as what she makes for an hour. Let's take 250 (it's the middle ground for most areas).

A woman charging 250 for an hour of time in your company has some realities associated with it.

1. Supplies. I do not need to define these do I? (Even buying in bulk you have up to 5$ in supplies during an hour and higher if not buying in bulk or if one uses less common brands)
2. Make-up and personal grooming. I know we all think women randomly put it on but application, and re-application of make-up adds up. Not a cost most think of but most who wear it are spending a fair amount on it and it is amortized over many visits. Not to mention nails, razors, etc... Let's say 3$ a visit.
3. Clothing. Any given outfit will range between 30$-500$ depending on the woman in question. Yes I said 500$. Just for a bra, panties, stockings, and shoes. Shocking! Throw in a clothing request and then things get really interesting. Most have to replace things like stockings, panties, etc. (not all are gentle with a woman's clothing) regularly so we'll amortize this at 5$ per visit.
4. Ads. Backpage is 10$ a day. Terb is 75$ for 4 weeks. It adds up and fast. The other places range up to and over 100$ a month on average. We'll say this would be 3-5$ per hour amortized for many.
5. Phones. Many are paying high amounts with no-plan cells, etc. This can add up quickly also. It is often 1-2$ for every call that actually happens paying for the many inquiries that do not go through as well as time spent on your text or call.
6. Location. Be it an apartment, a condo, a motel, a hotel, or an outcall. This costs. To furnish a full time place, heat, water, cleaning supplies, linens, etc. vs a motel or hotel. You are looking at 25$-50$ per appointment for many women and for low volume providers it is sometimes more like 100$. Outcall can cost gas for those who drive them self, taxi's or a driver for those who do not. Also 25-100$ range is not nun heard of.
7. Additional expenses. We kindly add this in as it applies to many. Be it refreshments for their incall, child care, etc. we will add 15$ to this a random additional expense.

So now that we have the basic numbers these women work with every day... We are looking at an overall expense of 85$ on average for someone charging 250$ for an hour. Ranging down to around 40$ and up to 125$ based on various factors.

If at any given time a woman NEEDS to raise her rates (for whatever reason she chooses) then that is her right. If one comes to an agreement for something lower based on ongoing, regular meetings then that is their choice.

I need to caution the gentlemen here about something important:

Asking someone to give you a lower rate may in turn mean they are pocketing very little. I remember one gentleman assuming he could ask for a reduced rate and with my expenses at the time it meant I would pocket 10$. No matter how much I enjoyed his company, and all that came with it... I didn't think a fast food lunch was worth the hour transit each way, and hour there (so 3 hours of my life). It would have meant I was making 3.33$ an hour (or less with traffic) so posts like this then to having me replying. If she says no it is likely because of something along those lines.

No matter how much a woman enjoys her play time with you... Asking about giving her less without a well established history can be very insulting to her as well.

Just some perspective from someone who can speak freely on terb now.

Maddie

These numbers seem high to begin with....but I know they are just rough numbers depending on the SP, however, these numbers don't jive with the overall industry.

Very few of these girls are only seeing 1 client per day (unless their service is bad then word will get around and overhead increases because they have to change their names)

So lets say the average SP sees only 4 clients in a day..... now that $40-$120 range is $10-$30/day. Razors, shampoos, makeup, etc last i checked, gets more than 1 use.....and as far as the outfits, I see them lasting for years and normal wear and tear would not really apply as they don't stay on the SP for very long.

As for the breakdown above.......if an SP ends up only making $3.33/hr because of expenses, its time to find a new line of business or cut expenses.

 

[Madeline Rhodes]

These numbers seem high to begin with....but I know they are just rough numbers depending on the SP, however, these numbers don't jive with the overall industry.

Very few of these girls are only seeing 1 client per day (unless their service is bad then word will get around and overhead increases because they have to change their names)

So lets say the average SP sees only 4 clients in a day..... now that $40-$120 range is $10-$30/day. Razors, shampoos, makeup, etc last i checked, gets more than 1 use.....and as far as the outfits, I see them lasting for years and normal wear and tear would not really apply as they don't stay on the SP for very long.

As for the breakdown above.......if an SP ends up only making $3.33/hr because of expenses, its time to find a new line of business or cut expenses.

Oh good. We have someone who thinks all see multiple men a day and knows the cost of ads, supplies, makeup, condoms, clothing, etc. etc. better than someone who worked in the industry for a number of years.

Some do see more than one or two people a day and some do not. Just like some work 1-3 days a week, and some work 7 days a week. Do not assume someone who is low volume provides inadequate service. I know for a fact that there are a number of providers who do not have time to see more than one person a day as they are not full time SP's, or have day jobs as well. This industry is not the be all and end all for all women. I assure you.

As for the part about 3.33/hr please read back. That was my point about those requesting discounts. It can get rather messy. You have no idea what the requested rate was, or expenses. I simply said it was 1 hour travel time each way and you chose to be insulting saying one should find another line of work. Thank you. I did that years ago and I made more than 3.33/hr because I knew when to say NO.:wink:

Let's go over this again:

1. Supplies. 5$
2. Make-up and personal grooming. 3$
3. Clothing. 5$
4. Ads. 3-5$
5. Phones. 1-2$
6. Location. 25$-50$ (sometimes more like 100$) If it is a hotel, and they see two people for an hour at 250$ and the hotel cost them 130$ (which is no more than a 3-3.5 star in Toronto with tax) then it works out to 65$ for the hotel but wait... Since they walked to the hotel and didn't pay transportation, gas, etc. You are getting my point right? Many of the 250+ women are booking rooms at well over 100$ a piece. If they are working from a location they have to purchase all that goes in the location, and keep it clean. This cost never goes away.
7. Additional expenses. 15$ We all have them. You think nothing of stopping for a coffee, or a drink when traveling point A to B and the same goes for the women but it is still an out of pocket expense related to being out of their home.

Which of these did you feel was high? I used the averages and said 85$ and that it would range as low as 40$ and as high as 125$ based on various factors.


I've already said I do not need to be "nice" so I will be "blunt" instead as nice failed to sink in for you.
Tell me... Where do we "cut the budget"?

• Are they suppose to stick to the lifestyles condoms from public health/the dollar store to save a buck? Oh heck! Just reuse those puppies! Save more, play more!
• What about lube... We don't need any of that right? Men can just hock a loogie on their cock as they ram it home. That's so fuckin hot! (just puked in my mouth a little)
• How about the cheap disposable razors from the dollar store to save a buck (but most butcher themselves with them so ignore the slices). Oh and a fresh one each time you freshen your girl parts up is recommended for those who shave. We're not like men dear.
• How about press on nails from the dollar store that pop off if they flex their finger. That will save some money.
• Makeup? Women don't need no stinking makeup. No need to shower, wash ones hair, and soap up their girl parts either. If the men do not have to then why should the women! DOWN WITH THE SHOWERS AND GROOMING TOO!
• What about nylons and stockings (which do get requested and range from 5-45$ a pair)? No one ever ruins a pair by putting their nail through them, or has a man rip them off with their teeth.
• Panties and stockings should NEVER be changed through out the day. Why would one want to do that? It's not like she'd be wearing them and another mans penis might have rubbed pre-cum all over her cheek, or hip and stained her panties. Tasty!
• To hell with the clothing. Just grab a sheet (I'd say towel but since we are nixing the shower time it is a bit redundant).
• NO ads. Just post on whatever forum you can spam the most, and call quest personals on a landline so you can talk some guy into coming over. OR... WAIT! Let's just wear our skimpiest sheet set (since we did away with clothing), no shoes, and wander down the street. Think someone will stop and offer 30$ for a BJ? Maybe a tip will be in the works and it will be a full 40$!
• Unlimited minutes for voice is a minimum of 1$ a day, and so is text... Not to mention long distance (which happens), and data so a phone bill coming in at a few hundred dollars a month is actually more common than one might think. Especially if a woman is rather popular. VOIP cuts costs but is unreliable at times and eliminates texting (according to someone I know well).
• Locationally one could cut the cost by getting a place in areas that make you wonder if your tires will be on your vehicle after, or in no-tells which you are afraid to go without shoes in (let alone touch the sheets), and they can certainly let you use the same towel as the 3 guys before you used. Don't worry about the faint tan coloured streaks. Those are suppose to be there.
• Transportation... Let's TTC it. No one really needs to explain why they have to now haul a suitcase to someone's hotel room, office, etc. because they can't run for a streetcar, bus or train in 6 inch heels safely. Not to mention not wanting their very nice outfit to touch the gum some asshole smeared into the seat. Just get a monthly pass as it is "cheaper" that way (but still over 100$ for the month and more if you are not in the core area i.e. Mississauga, Vaughan, Pickering, etc.) HEY! Let's buy everyone a bicycle! Then they can sweat their arse off getting to you, pant for a while because they just cycled 30 min +, and lay there while you do all the work!
• Childcare... Who needs that. Women can leave their children at home alone right? Or just be available when they are at school. Because not all SP's are without children (as amazing as that sounds).
• Coffee, tea, and water should be brought from home. How dare they possibly think they are entitled to stopping on the way.

Where the FUCK did I mess up numbers and when do you want to find someone who's condom you wish to re-use?

I am sorry but I gave some real time numbers and you chose to tell ME what it costs to be presentable in this industry. 40$ expense per person is truly not that high, and thinking someone can get below and down to 10$ a DAY is a joke.

A box of decent condoms is 10$. God help any woman who has to offer MSOG now. No facials allowed either because they may have to re-apply the makeup they are not allowed to freshen up or wash their hair (with something other than cheap dollar store pantine pro v that ruins your hair). No pearls because shower gel is now out of the budget and so is lotion.

 

[needtono]

Wow. Somebody didn't get their beauty sleep last night

 

[Madeline Rhodes]

Wow. Somebody didn't get their beauty sleep last night

Sleep and sex. The two things guaranteed to improve my mood and neither were on the agenda apparently. :Eek:

Actually it is more so that I have a huge pet peeve about those who think they have a grasp on what it costs to truly be a woman in the industry and think everything one makes is pocketed with no regard to the real costs involved with being well put together on short notice.

 

[Madeline Rhodes]

Oh Maddie ... I looooooove you xoxo

Love you too Jess!

P.S. I've been hearing that a lot from women today. Wonder why. :wink:

 

[outlander]

You rock Madeline!!!!!!

 

[Petite Filet]

Just to add to Maddie's post.

Not only do we have the expenses that she listed but we also have car payments, rent/mortgages, car insurance, gas, food etc just like everyone else.

The hotel I use for incall had a day rate of $46, which is now $85 for a full night. I was running specials of $150/per hr but will have to change that now.