question about dvd camcorders
- Thread starter Robio
- Start date
Nope, never ever gunna happen.
The gyroscopic effect of a larger disc (and thusly a faster rim speed, and additional mass and additional force) would cause all kinds of havoc to the spindle bearings everytime the cam is moved. Think of a spinning bike tyre.
Plus they were just a cheezy stop-gap solution anyways, like VHS-C cams... Wait until 5 frame GOP hard drive recorders become commonplace, even then MPG cams suck, totally. MPG is NOT re-encode friendly.
The gyroscopic effect of a larger disc (and thusly a faster rim speed, and additional mass and additional force) would cause all kinds of havoc to the spindle bearings everytime the cam is moved. Think of a spinning bike tyre.
Plus they were just a cheezy stop-gap solution anyways, like VHS-C cams... Wait until 5 frame GOP hard drive recorders become commonplace, even then MPG cams suck, totally. MPG is NOT re-encode friendly.
Oh, ok I thought he was talking about a standard definition home camcorder, not a several hundred thousand dollar hardware HD converter... silly me.mmouse said:
Do I need to go into details of why MPG is bad for home use? I could go on with all the technical details of why, but just let it be said that if all one did is record on the disk, then finalize it, and then just play it (25% chance it won't though) on a home player, and NEVER edit it, then miniDVD is passable, in the 15 minute per disk mode... um.. in good lighting... and limited motion... and limited detail... with a 3 CCD camera... yes.
I have over 20 years of digital production under my belt, a technician in the editing suites of a large international studio, a shooter and an editor with digital video since its pioneering days.
Trust me on this one folks, I may look like a dummy, but I ain't.
But then again, THAT wasn't his question now was it.
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yes there are.Robio said:
sorry wrong.VidiEdit said:
lmao, tell him sista !mmouse said:
here are a couple of links.
Sony's DCRDVD308 DVD Handycam
Multi-Format DVD Compatibility: DVD-R/-RW/+RW/+R DL (Dual Layer) recording for playback on most DVD players. Re-record on DVD-RW/+RW media over 1000 times without picture degradation. With DVD+R DL media, you can enjoy extra recording time on a single side disc
Sony's DCRDVD108 DVD Handycam
Multi-Format DVD Compatibility: DVD-R/-RW/+RW/+R DL (Dual Layer) recording for playback on most DVD players. Re-record on DVD-RW/+RW media over 1000 times without picture degradation. With DVD+R DL media, you can enjoy extra recording time on a single side disc
Sony's HDRUX1 AVCHD DVD Handycam
Format: DVD-R/-RW/+RW/+R DL (Physical); AVCHD (HD Logical); DVD-Video/DVD-VR/DVD+RW Video (SD Logical)
If you look at these Sonys carfully they are 3" dvd discs not 5-1/4" I do not like the 3" it doesn't hold enough time and I do not like to spend time dubbing from the cam to a recordable dvd player. They do not put mini dvd or the size of th dvd in there ads ( very misleading) if any one knows of a full size 5-1/4 " 4.7 gig dvd disc cam corder let me know please . if not let me know of a the best on that takes a 4 gig sd card but dvd prefured
according to the formats, you can use the dual layer dvd which I thought only come in full size 5.25".Robio said:
I know there out there as I have seen them advertised as using regualr sized dvd.
you are right, didn't notice the size.
http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa6.htm
What are the physical sizes of CD-R and CD-RW discs?
Generally, writable DVD discs come in 12 cm (120 mm) and 8 cm (80 mm) diameter sizes. The most commonly used is the larger 12 cm type which has the same physical dimension as most commercial video, audio, computer software and game console DVDs. 8 cm discs are less common and are typically used in portable consumer electronic devices such as digital video camcorders.
What blank writable disc capacities are available?
Manufacturers express disc capacity in terms of how much computer data a disc can contain. DVD-R (General), DVD-R (Authoring), DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-RAM discs come in 4.7 GB single and 9.4 GB double-sided (12 cm) and 1.46 GB single and 2.92 GB double-sided (8 cm) sizes.
This has not always been the case for DVD-RAM and DVD-R. DVD-RAM discs designed for use in early recorders (version 1.0) come in 2.6 GB single-sided and 5.2 GB double-sided (12 cm) sizes. DVD-R discs compatible with first generation recorders (version 1.0) come in 3.95 GB single-sided and 7.9 GB double-sided (12 cm) and 1.23 GB single-sided and 2.46 GB double-sided (8 cm) sizes.
joebear said:sorry wrong.
wrong where Joe?
There IS a difference between READing and errors and WRITING and errors, or is this hard for you to follow?
If the disk is bothered during playback, it can correct it, if the disk is bothered during write, you are screwed, posibly the entire file too. The larger the disk, the more potential for errors. Why do you think that at the finalize stage it TELLS you to put it on a table.. ummm. errors at write session due to motion can kill the disk.
You don't like the "stop-gap" answer? That was taken VERBATIM from Sony corporation.
www.womble.com - one of several apps that can edit MPEG2 without re-encoding. wow 20 years.VidiEdit said:
MPEG specifies a format, not a particular bitrate or image resolution. You can find MPEG files at, say, 9Mbps or at 200kbps.mmouse said:
As for "editting MPEG" without "re-encoding": it depends on what you want to be able to do. For full-featured video editors, MPEG (without re-encoding) is a terrible choice. That doesn't mean that decent video editor software can't be created which uses MPEG as its internal format, it just means that such video editor software is much more expensive (per feature) than it would be were it to use a simpler format internally.
If you're working with a nicely compressed MPEG source file, it will still be cpu- and memory-intensive to, say, step backwards through individual frames or to jump immediately to an intermediate (e.g. "P") frame. http://www.broadware.nl/ds_products/guide/hs500.htm
I agree that MPEG2 is not ideal for editing. Quality wise however, the best possible MPEG2 for DVD (i.e. 720x480 @ 9 Mb/s) is as good if not better than DV, your other alternative for a consumer camcorder. So the claim that the quality of DVD camcorcorders is inferior is BS. However if you plan to do a lot of editing, DV might be a better choice.
First you say I am wrong? Then you agree with me? lolmmouse said:
If we are ignoring the fact that DVD encoding is based on a gop of 15 frames and that the field size is very large, and that the horrible compression does very nasty things when subject to the noise floor of the ever decreasing size of sensor chips in the small cameras and low light performance, and that the only way to get a 9MBps stream is to run the disc in 18 minute mode? oh yes.. then yes.. DVD is very close in quality to DV footage. Some people can't tell a 129kbps MP3 file from one played direct from CD either, so it is all in the eye of the beholder I guess.
on WOMBLE... sheesh...
You CAN cut a mpeg stream on the end of a complete gop, but that can be a half of a second off the mark. If you wanna really call that editing (my opinion only, good enough possibly for birthdays). Put on any titles or colour corrections or join together any two segments or more in a single chapter, then it HAS TO re-encode. Then if you want to put that back down to a DVD to play in a set-top player.. then YES it will get re-encoded.
On a personal note: what's yer problem with my statement of 20 years of experience. I was not bragging, if that was at all your interpretation. I was just stating that I am not just some dude off the street, and I do have actual training and experience in this field. Whether or not you agree with them is an entirely different matter as some of this has to do with individual perceptions. The fact that you want to make it personal, well... ?
BTW, thanx Ananym, for the supporting info! Good to see we have others here that know thier stuuf!
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Um no. You said you "always" have to re-encode MPEG to edit it. That was 100% wrong. So you are full of shit.VidiEdit said:
On a personal note, someone who comes to an escort review board trying to impress people with video editing expertise is a fucking loser.
mmouse said:
Ummm, how's MPEG at max 9 Mbps (for DVD standard) can be better than DV (at a constant 25 Mbps)? MPEG is NOT better than DV. MPEG is IN FACT worse than DV.
If you can't see the difference in picture quality, then good for you.
PS: VidiEdit know what he's talking about.
Either that or both VidiEdit and myself are in the wrong business for years.
Either that or both VidiEdit and myself are in the wrong business for years.
