Raptors...

[wrong hole]

What do you guys think?

They are 5 and 1 in the preseason, but that's meaningless....plus they haven't played anyone good - 4 of minesota's starters didn't play, lost to new jersey and the rest are lottery bound teams except for pistons.

Coach has a good work ethic - but he's screamer...if they win it's alright, if they start losing, players will tune him out

Bosh looks promising

Alvin Williams is hurt -but doesn't play that well anyways(streaky at best)

JYD is bearly getting any playing time b/c he lacks skills and control - waste of 7 million dollars

Antonio Davis is a useless tit - shoots in the low % (especially for a post player)and is getting older by the minute - but still has 3 more years(including this one) at 13 mill a year

Vince looks like he's playing defense but his shooting in the preseason (40%) is horrendous and is one bump of the knee away from injury

Mo Pete is being torn a new hole by Kevin O'Neil - now he lacks confidence

Lamond Murry has never met a shot he didn't like....that's why he is shooting 41%

My forecast....baring an injury to vince the raptors will make the post season, but just barely...

...and bosh will make a run at rookie of the year against Melo and Dwayne Wade

 

[metamorphx]

I've seen a couple of preseason games and let me tell you that the "new" defense is not what it is hyped up to me. The scores have been low so far simply because of lazy offense by the raptors oppenents. However, the raptors do look back to the level they were at 2 yrs ago with everyone healthy and new keons(moiso and bosh) roaming around, just not a revamped defensive team like the media plays it out to be.

And I agree, everything depends on how much of a man vince has grown this summer (please don't be a sissy anymore!!)

 

[the_big_E]

Raptors....who cares, basketball just doesnt do it for me

 

[wrong hole]

Thanks for your contribution big e

 

[xarir]

However, the raptors do look back to the level they were at 2 yrs ago

I'd have to agree with that. The preseason games I've been to, particularly last night's showed a team that had hustle and some grit. The Raps lost last night but overall I thought they did quite well. This whole marketing campaign of renew, determination, heart etc I think may pervade the organization. (I hope it does!)

Based on the preseason, I'm looking forward to the real thing. And at the risk of letting Goober make fun of me, I'll say that I'm much more optimistic about the Raptors this year than the Leafs.

 

[wrong hole]

And at the risk of letting Goober make fun of me, I'll say that I'm much more optimistic about the Raptors this year than the Leafs.

Goober is an asshat, but he is right, leafs will never win as long as they are owned by the teacher's pension board.

But I don't think Raptors will win unless they luck out in the draft b/c there's no way they would spend money like dallas, portland or new york to get the right free agents.

But I hear there's a rumour that Dallas might trade Anton Jamison to the raptors for Antonio davis and someone else.

 

[metamorphx]

But I hear there's a rumour that Dallas might trade Anton Jamison to the raptors for Antonio davis and someone else.

WOW, really?? That would make sense for both teams on the court, but I don't think we can afford Jamison's contract.

The talent on the team now is more than strong enough to make the playoffs, but it just depends on Carter's "injury" tolerence.

PS: I gotta say that Bosh does look impressive so far, but the guy is a toothpick! He got bitch-slapped around by by the bulls yesterday.

 

[kooley]

Re: my third season

with tickets and boy its frustrating watching them self destruct

I couldn't justify spending more money on my season tickets, for the first year I cancelled them.
It is so frustrating wthcing a bunch of guys who are being held back by mlse and thus couldn't give a shit do don't bother trying. I think next season may be better once they get some room under the salary cap, this Hakeem thing is killing them.
I do think Glen Grunwald sould go

 

[wrong hole]

WOW, really?? That would make sense for both teams on the court, but I don't think we can afford Jamison's contract.

I gotta say that Bosh does look impressive so far, but the guy is a toothpick! He got bitch-slapped around by by the bulls yesterday.

I don't know if Dallas would pull the trigger even though Davis would provide interior defense and toughness, but he's old.

Also Jamison is getting max money, but he's not a max talent - problem is, Jamison is a 'tweener' - too small to play power forward and not skilled enough to play small forward (lacks dripping skillz and speed to defend).

It would be nice if the raptors got 'sheed' - it's a perfect fit, raps get size and skill and rasheed can smoke all the chronic he wants without getting busted, plus portland can clean their image by getting rid of him and getting antonio & mo pete or jyd.

Bosh has a chance to be special b/c he has alot of serious skills - but it depends on him....will he be satisfied with just being a 20- 10 man (by next year)....or does he want to be more(this will require a lot more work)....but I don't think he has the talent of Kevin Garnett...

 

[aptenodytes]

Bosh has a chance to be special b/c he has alot of serious skills - but it depends on him....will he be satisfied with just being a 20- 10 man (by next year)....or does he want to be more(this will require a lot more work)....but I don't think he has the talent of Kevin Garnett...

'Just .... a 20-10 man'???? Last year there were three, count 'em three players that averaged at least 20 points and 10 rebounds in the NBA.
Those player were Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Jermaine O'Neal.
If Bosh EVER reaches that standard, the Raptors should consider themselves lucky indeed.

 

[wrong hole]

'Just .... a 20-10 man'???? Last year there were three, count 'em three players that averaged at least 20 points and 10 rebounds in the NBA.
Those player were Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Jermaine O'Neal.
If Bosh EVER reaches that standard, the Raptors should consider themselves lucky indeed.

I think you better look at the stats again - there were more than 3...

I'll break it down to 2 categories:

2002-2003

20-10 man

Shawn Marion - 21 pts, 10 rebounds (9.7)

Elton Brand - 19.4 pts, 11 rebounds

Jermaine O'Neal - 21 pts, 10 rebounds

20 -10 man (special players)

Shaq - 28 pts, 11 rebounds

Tim Duncan -24 pts, 13 rebounds, 4 asssit, 3 blocks

Kevin Garnett - 23 pts, 13 rebounds, 6 asssit

Dirk Nowitzski - 25 pts, 10 rebounds

Chris Webber - 23 pts, 10 rebounds, 5 asssit


So there were 8 players, Bosh at his current pace will be a Shawn Marion, Brand, O'Neal or Gasol type of player.....but if he wants to be special like Duncan or Garnett - he has to work a lot harder (I think he has the tools).

That was my point.

 

[aptenodytes]

Here are the top rebounders (per the ESPN web site):
RPG
1. B. Wallace DET 15.4
2. K. Garnett MIN 13.4
3. T. Duncan SAS 12.9
4. J. O'Neal IND 10.3
5. B. Grant MIA 10.2
6. T. Murphy GSW 10.2

Nowitzki is next, at UNDER 10 (hey - 10 is 10, right??).
I can't believe I left Shaq off the list - an egregious error on my part.
The correct total is therefore 4 players.
Others were close, as you said, and I think that Brand and Webber most likely didn't play a sufficient number of games to qualify officially.
In any case, I think the quality of players on your OR my list should make it clear that a 20/10 man is indeed a rare commodity in the league, wouldn't you agree? And that was, after all the main thrust of my post.

 

[wrong hole]

In any case, I think the quality of players on your OR my list should make it clear that a 20/10 man is indeed a rare commodity in the league, wouldn't you agree?

..not really my point - players like Brand, O'Neal didn't really improve their team, just take a look at Clippers, Chicago and Indiana

Having a 20 10 man does not mean the team will go far in the playoffs or have a winning record - you need the other stuff such as defense (all the 'special' players except for Dirk have been on 1st or 2nd or 3rd all defensive team), assist, the ability to dominate and score when it's a close game....the 'special' players do that, the other 3 on my list can't.

My point is Bosh can be just a 20 10 man in a year or two by simply going to practices.....but in order for him to be 'special', he would have to work his ass off- come early, stay late -develop new skills in summer

That was my point

btw Nowitzki avg 9.9 rebounds which is essentially '10'

 

[Powershot]

I don't want to see Jamison here. Could you imagine Vince being all smiley and joking with him while the Raptors are getting blown out. I prefer the towel over his head, head down look given the choice.

 

[metamorphx]

I don't want to see Jamison here. Could you imagine Vince being all smiley and joking with him while the Raptors are getting blown out.

You are right, Carter hasn't been the same since Oakley left. How someone can have so much talent and not even care about becoming better is beyond me. Hopefully O'Neil can light a fight under Carter's spoiled ass.

Somehow I don't see Bosh having that firey attitude like KG to improve, but then again Duncan turned out fine. And on the 20-10 discussion, having a guy like that doesn't guarantee success, but you can't have ultimate success without one of those guys.

 

[wrong hole]

You are right, Carter hasn't been the same since Oakley left. How someone can have so much talent and not even care about becoming better is beyond me. Hopefully O'Neil can light a fight under Carter's spoiled ass.

I think the problem with Vince was he got fame way too fast. He was the darling of the NBA in his second season.

And as far as talent goes, IMHO he is the most talented player in the NBA.....things just came too easy for him that he didn't take it seriously. Remember after his first year, people said he didn't have a shot.....comes back next season shooting 41% from 3's and 46% overall - it took only one summer for the dude to get a consistent shot while it takes some players years to develop a consistent shot. Then after his second season, people said he couldn't use his left hand and dribble left...comes back going left and dunking using left hand. I think b/c of his talent things just came so easy to him that he never had to work hard at it - he isn't motivated until pushed and once Butch Carter and Oakley left, no one pushed him. He became a big sissy whiner on the court. Imagine if Vince maximize his potential and was dedicated at improving his game as Kobe(minus the rape bit) in the off season. I think he would be ahead of Kobe and T-Mac b/c of vince's athleticism and sheer talent....but now he's just some schmuck trying to ressurect his reputation....