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Remembering 9/11

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
41,167
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Sunday will be the 15th Anniversary of that horrific event.

There are still unanswered questions:

- Prior to the attack, what did Condoleeza Rice know and did she inform anyone?
- after the attack, what happened at Tora Bora? The US Marines would not have just let Osama bin Laden get away, that's not how they operate.

Many more lives would have been lost if not for the swift response of the NYFD and the NYPD...and one anonymous hero:

http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeye/episodes/the-lost-hero-of-9-11
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,651
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Cue the conspiracy youtube links and debates from various people about melting points.......
 

italianguy74

New member
Apr 3, 2011
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Cue the conspiracy youtube links and debates from various people about melting points.......
And lest we forget the brave demolition crew that set up the explosives in building 7 when it was considered unsafe for firefighters to enter the building...oh wait they changed that story to the building collapsed on its own. lol
 

SuperCharge

Banned
Jun 11, 2011
2,523
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How does a building that wasn't hit by anything at all, come down like a stack of cards? Can someone explain this to me?
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
11,151
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Cue the conspiracy youtube links and debates from various people about melting points.......
How does a building that wasn't hit by anything at all, come down like a stack of cards? Can someone explain this to me?
Fires have never caused the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise before or since 9/11. Did we witness an unprecedented event three separate times on September 11, 2001? The evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that all three buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition.
Just had to light the fuse and revisionist history comes out of the woodwork. Loony tunes#1 Yes, the building was hit - there are pictures along with fire. Just move a little farther down the aisle from the fiction to the nonfiction aisle. Looney tunes #2 The overwhelming conclusion was with professional engineers and backed up with photographic evidence of the stress from the sagging support beams. This was a unique structure design with the beams stacked similar to the way you build a house of cards. The floor only held it's own weight from the outer shell. Once it pulled in from weakening (not melting) temperatures - it snapped and down came the house of cards:


BTW: There were a lot of heroes that day. I had friends who rushed down to volunteer to help. There wasn't much that could be done. I was stuck in a subway between Canal & WTC and by the time I got out it was over - everything was just coated in dust and paper. The amazing thing for me was that two blocks away everything solid was ground to powder the texture of cement powder - no large chucks.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
79,966
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
How does a building that wasn't hit by anything at all, come down like a stack of cards? Can someone explain this to me?
It was hit by falling debris, and was visibly structurally deforming before it collapsed. It's explained very well.
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
41,167
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That's correct.

Only the World Trade Centre had an external exoskeleton. Having done forming work myself, it was a major design flaw. Usually the exoskeleton is built around the elevator shafts out, this allows the building some give without compromising the structure. An external exoskeleton has less give but on paper should be stronger - if not collided into by a large object. When the jets hit, it compromised the exoskeleton. The blasts heated the supporting joist beyond their factor of safety. As they cooled the joists became brittle and inevitably gave way.

The structural plan was sound if the building is not collided into. What I don't know is, were the inner supporting columns filled with a fire retardant foam or where they left hollow to save money. And what type of metal were the angle clips made of? It was the angle clips giving out that caused the domino collapse. In a perfect world the angle clips should be an alloy of low carbon steel and nickel - obviously this is not what was used at the WTC. Again to cut cost.
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
11,151
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The structural plan was sound if the building is not collided into. What I don't know is, were the inner supporting columns filled with a fire retardant foam or where they left hollow to save money. And what type of metal were the angle clips made of? It was the angle clips giving out that caused the domino collapse. In a perfect world the angle clips should be an alloy of low carbon steel and nickel - obviously this is not what was used at the WTC. Again to cut cost.
There was a spray-on fire retardant on the support beams. An office fire on the floor would have encountered this insulation and under any 'perceivable' circumstances lasted long enough to allow firefighters to extinguish the fire. The initial explosion on impact of the plane blew off the insulation and the resulting prolonged inferno eventually took care of the rest.
 

italianguy74

New member
Apr 3, 2011
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If only they built the wtc buildings out of wax they wouldn't have collapsed so quickly a candle that big would take days to melt. :p
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
41,167
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There was a spray-on fire retardant on the support beams. An office fire on the floor would have encountered this insulation and under any 'perceivable' circumstances lasted long enough to allow firefighters to extinguish the fire. The initial explosion on impact of the plane blew off the insulation and the resulting prolonged inferno eventually took care of the rest.
Thanks for the link Surly Dane.

^There's your smoking gun. An external spray is not the best solution when dealing with a terrorist catastrophe. And I suspect that the support columns were never resprayed after construction, but I don't know this. The insulating foam would have desiccated over time if not resprayed. Since they were hollow, the expansion of the support columns and the buckling of the exoskeleton proves too much for the angle clips. All it took was one to give out and eventually the building was doomed.
 

eznutz

Active member
Jul 17, 2007
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This is why the official account fails...

Whereas NIST did attempt to analyze and model the collapse
of WTC 7, it did not do so in the case of the Twin
Towers. In NIST’s own words, “The focus of the investigation
was on the sequence of events from the instant of
aircraft impact to the initiation of collapse for each tower….this
sequence is referred to as the ‘probable collapse
sequence,’ although it includes little analysis of the structural
behaviour of the tower after the conditions for collapse
initiation were reached and collapse became inevitable.”[5]
Thus, the definitive report on the collapse of the Twin
Towers contains no analysis of why the lower sections
failed to arrest or even slow the descent of the upper
sections—which NIST acknowledges “came down essentially
in free fall” [5-6]—nor does it explain the various
other phenomena observed during the collapses. When a
group of petitioners filed a formal Request for Correction
asking NIST to perform such analysis, NIST replied that
it was “unable to provide a full explanation of the total
collapse” because “the computer models [were] not able
to converge on a solution.”
However, NIST did do one thing in an attempt to substantiate
its assertion that the lower floors would not be
able to arrest or slow the descent of the upper sections in
a gravity-driven collapse. On page 323 of NCSTAR 1-6,
NIST cited a paper by civil engineering professor Zdeněk
Bažant and his graduate student, Yong Zhou, that was
published in January 2002 [7] which, according to NIST,
“addressed the question of why a total collapse occurred”
(as if that question were naturally outside the scope of
its own investigation). In their paper, Bažant and Zhou
claimed there would have been a powerful jolt when the
falling upper section impacted the lower section, causing
an amplified load sufficient to initiate buckling in the
columns. They also claimed that the gravitational energy
would have been 8.4 times the energy dissipation capacity
of the columns during buckling.
 

italianguy74

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Apr 3, 2011
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Nobody has yet been able to duplicate such an easy to explain hypothesis on a physical scale. Its always trying to be explained with a computer program and on paper. Unfortunately the laws of physics won't allow people to recreate any of the 3 collapses......idiot laws of physics don't know nuffin.
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
11,151
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If I may add one relevant quote from the article :
"NOTE FROM THE EDITORS: This feature is somewhat different from our usual purely scientific articles, in that it contains some speculation. .... Obviously, the content of this article is the responsibility of the authors."

If I may offer a link to scientific analysis back-up by UL tests: http://www.debunking911.com/fires.htm

There has been speculation on the initial condition of the fire retardant in some engineering studies but even these acknowledge the ultimate cause of the collapse. If one took a serious look at the proposal of hiding demolition charges, hijacking planes and flying them directly into the floors that have those charges, not to mention the logistics of the faked hijackings ... I'm amazed there isn't a serious discussion of the reality of Santa Claus that follows.
 
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