Ripped Off Legal Help

[tightfit]

I have a friend who is a tiler and he has been in business for over 40 years
but doesn't know the legal process and is not very good at business..so here is the problem...he was asked to tile several rooms and did so under the direction of the home owner..The owner observed the work being done and never said anything until the work was finished at which point the owner said the gaps in the tiles were too small. They paid the tiler and then put a stop payment on the cheque a day later. They then said to the tiler they were now not happy with the work...poor guy is now out the money and I would like to help him out..anyone help here as I feel he has been taken...he has asked me to help him write a letter to these people and I would like to get any input I can...He has also offered to fix the job but the owner has now
got someone else in. Any help is appreciated.

 

[LancsLad]

There is a Law Society free referral service, if the fellows language skills are poor, say on a par with TERB posters, there are almost certainly taxpayer funded groups that would go to bat for hm. Speaking of bats, those can help with collections too.

Is it not fraud to pass a cheque in payment that you know not to be negotiable. Even if the fellow had money in his account it could not be constued as non-negotiable if it was his intent to immediately put a stop payment on it.

If your friend has any ratty looking trailer with old equipment on it he could street park it for awhile in front of the guys house with some signs on it.

If someone else is "in" then his work may already be removed, away goes any evidence of the quality of his work.

There has to be more to this than what you said.

Just a few points

 

[zanner69]

its called a demand letter

the letter should set out the facts. what the contract was for, what work was to be done, where the work was to be done, for how much, etc.

the part about them overseeing the project and not objecting to him continuing should be in the letter.

the letter should end this way:

This letter shall serve as a formal legal demand for payment in the amount of $________ forthwith. Your cheque should be made payable to _________ and delivered to _______________by no later than close of business _____________, 2006

Your failure to do so will result in immediate legal proceedings being commenced against __________ without any further notice. You will be held responsible not only for the outstanding amount as stated but for all of my legal costs and disbursements which, I assure you, will mount quickly.

keep it short and to the point

if they don't respond then he will need to commence an action for payment OR BETTER YET HE MAY NEED TO PUT A LIEN ON THE PROPERTY.

btw - how much money are we talking about here? if its less than 10K - then he can launch a small claims court action without retaining legal counsel

my bill is in the mail

Zanner

 

[TheNiteHwk]

There has to be more to this than what you said.

Not really. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book. I learned the hard way, way back when I use to sell renovations door to door. The only real defense against this is to get as big a down payment as possible before starting the job. Also we would ask for material costs as soon as materials were delivered on site. This guy can now evade paying you forever. He is counting on the contractor to just tire of trying to collect and go away. Trust me. The oldest trick in the book.

 

[Meister]

Good advice zanner. I would also in writing offer to inspect the installation and if found to be faulty offer to rectify the problem. That way they can not say in court that he ignored their issue.

Also, unless the gap was specified in writing upfront and if the current gap is within industry guidelines they have no leg to stand on.

 

[LancsLad]

Reading the last part of the original post my guess is that all of the original work is now removed. Unless pictures were taken with reference scales thequality of that work will never be known.

 

[clearwaterjim]

First of all I feel sorry for you friend, but there is a chance the work he did was unsatisfactory, however poor workmanship in ceramic tiles usually shows up after the first couple of tiles are laid. Since the homeowner let your friend complete job before voicing his displeasure then he definitely should be paid something for his labour. His best chances are to file in small claims court. He will be allowed an interpreter if he is more comfortable in his own language. Since he did recieve a check, that will be in your friend favour. It may be determined that the costs of the tilesetter who did the repair be deducted from the amount owed to your friend, if it can be proved with photos that they repairs were necessary at all. If this fails, I have used a Sicilian collector who I have used in the past and he has proved to be very efficient is such matters.

 

[zanner69]

If this fails, I have used a Sicilian collector who I have used in the past and he has proved to be very efficient is such matters.

LOL- I think I've used him as well!!!

 

[Tragically_Glib]

Sounds good on paper

if its less than 10K - then he can launch a small claims court action without retaining legal counsel

I’ve had 3 judgments in my favour in Small Claims Court, never seen a dime. I went to a collection agency and found out there are over 12,000 unsatisfied judgments in kitchener alone. Good luck with that approach.

 

[zanner69]

I’ve had 3 judgments in my favour in Small Claims Court, never seen a dime. I went to a collection agency and found out there are over 12,000 unsatisfied judgments in kitchener alone. Good luck with that approach.

well if he does get a judgment - then the options are to garnish their wages if they work OR put a writ on the property so when it comes time to re-finance their home, the amount of the judgment plus interest will need to be paid off (lenders do not like to see writs on title and most of them will not re-finance unless the judgment has been paid off).

 

[tightfit]

The oldest trick in the book

Yes,
this is the oldest trick in the book!!!
But I'd really like to help the old guy out here as I hate slime that do this.
I have always been a believer in paying fair price for fair work and this just burns me when I hear these things.

 

[papasmerf]

Get a mechanics lein and pull out the tiles

 

[clearwaterjim]

I’ve had 3 judgments in my favour in Small Claims Court, never seen a dime. I went to a collection agency and found out there are over 12,000 unsatisfied judgments in kitchener alone. Good luck with that approach.

Yes I hear you. It really makes one mad when you hear the complaints about contractors being the rip off artists when in fact non payment issued are probably even worse. I guess as mentioned earlier a downpayment of 50% is required before starting any job. You got to cover at least the cost of materials in the event of nonpayment. There was a Wall Mart built in Brockville about two years ago and the contractor never paid a dime to anyone.

 

[GirlFriends Toronto]

Yes I hear you. It really makes one mad when you hear the complaints about contractors being the rip off artists when in fact non payment issued are probably even worse. I guess as mentioned earlier a downpayment of 50% is required before starting any job. You got to cover at least the cost of materials in the event of nonpayment. There was a Wall Mart built in Brockville about two years ago and the contractor never paid a dime to anyone.

I know a girl who ended up in jail because she did not pay a judgment ($2000) against her. It was a fraud thing that she was suppose to pay rather then get charged. She didn't pay him. He took her do small claims court and won.
Peel cops had nothing better to do (in her words) so they went to her upscale condo and arrested her.
She played me like a fool and when she said that her ex is molesting her kid and that if she didn't get out of Metro West by that evening (it was a Friday) that he would gain full custody of her (their) daughter. She admitted later that she was desperate and had lied to me after I found out the truth. Her ex was no better then her when it came to fraud issues but he is not a molester.
I posted the money on condition that she pay me back via a schedule.
She came back to work with me and then ripped me off another $600. She said she made a bank deposit but when confronted with bank surveillance tapes she admitted to taking the money.
The bank was going to involve the police but she got the money together within a week or two and paid me back (the $600). She quit a day or two later. And although she promised week after week, month after month, year after year to pay me back (the $2000) I have not seen a dime. What is ironic is she has nothing good to say about another former (well-known, fraudulent) sp when she is no better herself.

Moral of the story ... you can go to jail if you don't pay a small claims court ruling.

 

[clearwaterjim]

Yes but I believe there were ciminal charges involved there and were probably conditional discharged upon paying moneys owed. Since she did not pay,the charges were then outstanding and she went to jail on those charges . If there is no criminality involved police will not get involved. They do not enforce small claim judgements unfortunately.

 

[GirlFriends Toronto]

Yes but I believe there were ciminal charges involved there and were probably conditional discharged upon paying moneys owed. Since she did not pay,the charges were then outstanding and she went to jail on those charges . If there is no criminality involved police will not get involved. They do not enforce small claim judgements unfortunately.

Yes they do if they feel like it.

 

[Juldet]

Collecting on judgments

Sounds like the homeowner would file a defense, maybe not. If the homeowner does not file a defense, you have a chance. Filing a lien is an option too as long as 45 days have not passed from the last day on job. The lien will cost about 1k to file and a few more k's to perfect and litigate.

Small cliams court is the alternative ...$75.00 to file and $100.00 to get a trial date.

I just collected against a homeowner in Kitchener. They did not file a defense, I placed an execution against the land, they tried to sell the house 6 months later ...oh oh says their lawyer, what's this?! They cannot sell unless they pay me in full plus costs, plus pre and post judgment interest. It can work if you know how to collect on a judgment. You need to sue the proper party ie proper legal name but most importantly you need an asset to seize ie bank account, property, wages, receivables etc

 

[clearwaterjim]

Yes they do if they feel like it.

Well too bad you never got paid but I imagine you learned from the experiance and your all the wiser for it.

 

[Juldet]

Jail for not paying in small claims judgments? Not really

You can go to jail if you fail to attend a post-judgment debtor examination on the third date, that means you ignore 3 court orders...it is called a commital order. The reason you go to jail is because it would constitute contempt of court. Very very rarely would a judge put you in jail for not paying a debt ie you are ordered to pay $20.00 a month directly by the judge and you fail to do so without a good explanation. Almost without exception the court will not put someone in jail for not paying a debt.

 

[Tragically_Glib]

Man, are we stupid or what

well if he does get a judgment - then the options are to garnish their wages if they work OR put a writ on the property so when it comes time to re-finance their home, the amount of the judgment plus interest will need to be paid off (lenders do not like to see writs on title and most of them will not re-finance unless the judgment has been paid off).

If only me and 12,000 other people in Kitchenr would have know it was that easy.

Come on!