Rules of War?

[Cardinal Fang]

Alot has been said about Iraq breaking the rules of egagement during the war. While I was not surprised by this, I was surprised by how I started to think about the entire thought of "rules in war."

I completely understand their need to protect civilians and combatents during conflicts, but I couldn't help but think that this was a convienient way humans sanitize war. Does it make it more civilized if we have rules to blow each others brains out. Killing people is brutal so by attaching rules to it is it any less brutal? Do rules negate the aspect of morality during war? Do rules really minimize suffering?

War is war. Its horrible, ruthless and many suffer. You would expect that any army facing a fight to the death would use whatever means possible to survive. If that means killing their own or gassing their enemy then I believe they would. But are we any better if we "play by the rules." As much as I think the coalition forces have shown restraint, in the back of my mind I believe that "restraint," will be their greatest weakness.

I am a firm believer that we need rules of engagement. But when I see the brutality of war I really question why. Why even bother.

 

[papasmerf]

I am a firm believer that we need rules of engagement. But when I see the brutality of war I really question why. Why even bother.

Cardinal,

No question war is neither clean or neat. But without rueles of engauement Nuetron bombs would be the order of the day. once a combatent surrenders their main objective is to escape and rejoin their unit or country. Every foot soldier knows this and is honor bound to protect the lives of prisioners.

When a combatent seemingly surrenders then attacks. And the combatents dress in civilian clothes. This poses a major problem. Does the opposing soldier open fire on all people not known to them??????? The other solution is you put acceptable losses at point and to accept surrenders.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

That's very interesting papasmerf....

Your point of using Nuetron bombs is well taken. You raised an interesting question when you used the term acceptible losses.

 

[papasmerf]

That's very interesting papasmerf....

Your point of using Nuetron bombs is well taken. You raised an interesting question when you used the term acceptible losses.

Every Commander knows that with every engagnent there may be losses. And at times a soldier will be asked to be "The First Into A Mine Field". This as you might guess can be suecide. and often takes a life to protect many. The same will have to be assumed for every surrender, or civilian contact.

 

[luckyjackson]

This question received its definitive treatment when Kirk forced a race that had been waging 'civilized' war to deal with the real ugliness of armed conflict. What would we do without Star Trek?

 

[onthebottom]

It does seem

like an oxymoron.

OTB

 

[Elmer Stud]

Anyone ever fart in an elevator?

Reminds me of the character called The Spleen from Mystery Men.

 

[Paul Waters]

Alot has been said about Iraq breaking the rules of egagement during the war. While I was not surprised by this, I was surprised by how I started to think about the entire thought of "rules in war."

Hmmm, well if we are discussing formalities, there has been no declaration of war by the US or Britain. So this is really an invasion and Iraq is defending itself against illegal enemy aggresion. IMO it is hard to blame them for "breaking rules."

It is not absurd to imagine that Bush and Blair will some day be put on trial for this mis-adventure.

If we consider the American War of Independence, the rules were broken by the Americans. They often dressed in buckskin and not military uniforms, and hid behind trees instead of engaging in battle in a clearing as the "rules of engagement" demanded at the time.

Two maxims apply:

Truth is the first casualty of war,

and

History is written by the victors.

 

[papasmerf]

Re: Re: Rules of War?

If we consider the American War of Independence, the rules were broken by the Americans. They often dressed in buckskin and not military uniforms, and hid behind trees instead of engaging in battle in a clearing as the "rules of engagement" demanded at the time.

Two maxims apply:

Truth is the first casualty of war,

and

History is written by the victors.

This I was waiting for. YES YOU DENY THE TRUTH.

In 1776 the ruels of enguagement were to line up and fire with @ 20 yards between the combatents. The Colonist did indeed change the rules. And yes this was not the norm.

HOWEVER it was not then that ruels of engagement were adapted. Another thing you neglect is the out numbered factor. I d not belive Sodamn Insane troops are orverwhelmed by coliation forces by sheer numbers.

Yes you do show truth is a casualty.

History is written by the victors???

Not any more it is now reported by anti-american foreces (for the most part)

 

[gryfin]

What short memories we have..

I still see pictures of American soldiers in Afghanistan operating in civilian clothes. I've also seen pictures of American soldiers in Columbia in civilian clothes. It happened in Vietnam and all over South America.

The American government and military rarely find hypocrisy an obstacle.

 

[papasmerf]

Those foreign operatives in civies can be charged as spies

 

[ice_dog]

There have been warnings of suicide attacks in Iraq.


Iraqi dissidents and Arab media have claimed that Saddam Hussein has opened a training camp for Arab volunteers willing to carry out suicide bombings against U.S. forces in Iraq. And last month, terror mastermind Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) urged Iraqis in an audio tape aired on Arabic television to employ the tactic against the Americans. Other Arab militants also spoke about suicide missions against the invading armies.


Such suicide attacks are common by Palestinian militants in targeting the better equipped Israeli army during the uprising on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (news - web sites).


Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri was asked in a mid-March television interview, whether Iraq would use the tactic of suicide attacks against the invading American forces.


"We have prepared ourselves for all kinds of war. For many months, tens of thousands have volunteered to serve as martyrdom-seekers (suicide attackers) in the battle with the American enemy," he said. "

 

[BigGuy26]

Anyone ever fart in an elevator?

Troops, I farted in an elevator one time, and it was so bad, I had to get out on the next floor!

 

[papasmerf]

"IN THE IRAQI DESERT (AP) - A bomber posing as a taxi driver summoned American troops for help, then blew up his vehicle Saturday, killing himself and four soldiers and opening a new chapter of carnage in the war for Iraq.

An Iraqi official said such attacks would be "routine military policy" in Iraq - and, he suggested chillingly, in America.

"We will use any means to kill our enemy in our land and we will follow the enemy into its land," Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan said at a Baghdad news conference. "This is just the beginning. You'll hear more pleasant news later.""

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030329/D7Q2V5FO0.html


How does one train to be a suecide bomber???????

 

[ice_dog]

"IN THE IRAQI DESERT (AP) - A bomber posing as a taxi driver summoned American troops for ....
How does one train to be a suecide bomber???????
[

Good question... Was there such a joke in the Jay Leno show ?
I suppose they don't use real bombs , maybe they use fire carackers to simulate the real situation. Just guessing. You have to ask Sudam.

 

[papasmerf]

Good question... Was there such a joke in the Jay Leno show ?
.

Sorry dog, But this aint no hollywood show.

I suspect they are trained in packing and shaping charges. As well as prime targets.

 

[ice_dog]

Not that I am not treating this as a serious matter, but I did hear something like this in the Jay Leno show

 

[YorkNorthGuy]

Rules of War.

There are many classifications of rules during armed conflicts.

Rules of Engagement are rules defined by one side as to how THEY will engage the enemy. For example, they will not fire on an aircraft unless it is positively identified as hostle. Or not to fire unless fired upon first. The famous Rule of Engagement "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!".

The rules of warfare that most countries had adopted are rules to prevent civilian losses and colateral damage as much as possible. They also include that proviso that combantants are in uniform and that the dead will be treated with respect. These rules are from a more "honourable" time (ie. WWI). Another rule of war in this area is that a country will "Declare" war on another (as you know, this has not happened in the current battle). As the world has evolved to guerilla type warfare, a lot of these rules are ignored. These rules are not binding and rely on the countries to follow them.

The other types of rules are governed by the Geneva Conventions of warware. These rules deal with what is acceptable weapons (ie. no nukes or chemicals) and how the POWs are treated. Countries become signatories to these rules and are expected to follow them.