Should Canadian Border Guards Have Guns?

[xarir]

Canadian border guards are staging various work disruptions such as walking off the job, not charging people for bringing stuff back into Canada from the US etc. They are doing this because they want to have guns instead of just pepper spray and batons. The border guards are claiming that they have essentially the same role as police officers and require guns in order to perform their job duties safely.

What do you think? Guns or no guns for our border guards?

 

[Kommander1975]

Oh great, just what we needed, King Kong-wannabees shooting innocent people in "accidents" at the border.

Absolutely not, they have never needed a gun, there have never been shootings at the border, but if we give them guns there WILL be shootings.

 

[baltimoron]

Need more info

I don't know. Is there a problem with people taking potshots at Canadian border guards? US guards have guns because they ARE being shot at ... by Mexicans on the Southern border.

Unless there are routine incidents of people shooting at Canadian border guards, I would say no.

On a closer scale, if there is a rare occurrence of some maniac who goes crazy at a border crossing point, he can subdue a guard and get a hold of a gun. Just great. Instead of a bunch of bruises and cuts, there will be dead bodies. Again, I'd say no.

The border is just a line on the map. I'm sure the RCMP and FBI, as well as local LE in both US and Canada have everything around the line covered pretty well.

 

[goodtime]

... US guards have guns because they ARE being shot at ... by Mexicans on the Southern border.
...
On a closer scale, if there is a rare occurrence of some maniac who goes crazy at a border crossing point, he can subdue a guard and get a hold of a gun. Just great. Instead of a bunch of bruises and cuts, there will be dead bodies. Again, I'd say no.
...

And few U.S. agents showed they're no push-over, with hand on holster to intimidate GT's elderly relatives. The whole thing started with GT in trucker line while many other in passenger vehicles prior successfully done but GT's relatives had passport from muslim countries. It was a slow custom day. No trucker disbutes. Kept us waiting for 40 mins just to 'dick around'. This was during the relaxed border era when GT and others got pass with just Driver lic while friends with their take-out.

For the Canadian boys & gals, definitely NO as many are summer students & part-time. Without proper training, they risk hurting themselves than protection. If safety was an issue, bulletproof vest is a start.

What they want was more for intimidation factor as occassional hostile U.S. vistor and Canadian gun smugglers. But never reports or talks of threaten while on job.

 

[lickrolaine]

So both sides of the worlds longest undefended border want guns,sheese.They can say all they want,but it comes down to money,and training,and they want it all.It is a pethatic job at best,keeper of the gates,boringgggggggg.Paper workers,arrggg,don't get me started,lol.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Imagine if the guys who stopped Dave P had guns?

 

[great bear]

Imagine if the guys who stopped Dave P had guns?

Sayy. That's one good reason for them to have guns.

 

[Quest4Less]

Real World...

Yes Customs officers do need guns. Why?

1) There have been instances of being shot at. No, no one has been killed YET.

2) They are the first line of defense into the country. They are dealing with people coming from (at the land barders) a country that allows just about ANYONE to carry a gun. YOU feel like trying to enforce our laws when faced with a possibly armed person?

3) Because they are not armed they are told by the white towers in Ottawa "if you are faced with an armed and dangerous person, just let them go and call the local cops to deal with it". By doing this they are allowing this person into the country - to do whatever they may want. Would you want someone you know killed because the customs person who could have stopped someone did not have the tools to do so?????

Yes, it would require some changes. Better training, no more summer students, etc... But if it means saving lives then I say yes. How could a sane person not see the logic?

 

[benn]

I don't see a reason why they should have guns

 

[papasmerf]

I don't see a reason why they should have guns

Cause the bad guys do.

 

[benn]

Cause the bad guys do.

You know this for a fact?

They were able to manage past the US customs with all their guns, how many Canadian Customer Officers have you heard been shot?


The rest of the world is developing nuclear weapons, then does it mean we should also develop nuclear weapons

 

[VincenzoTurismo]

I recommend them having several officers carrying AK47's or SMG's and a few carrying 12 gauge shot-guns. Also it should be made mandatory for each and every officer to also carry a handgun such as a .45 calibre handgun at their waist-side.

Screw using night-sticks and taser guns. You should strike fear into those criminals and terrorists hearts.

Ciao,

VT

 

[xarir]

Interesting - the comments posted here generally say no but the votes definitely say yes.

Would a few more of the yes voters care to post why they think the border guards should have guns?

 

[Keebler Elf]

From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), the border guards wear bullet proof vests. Their argument is that if there's reason for them to wear vests, then there's reason for them to carry firearms. A pretty convincing argument, IMHO.

What brought this issue to a head is that an exceptionally dangerous and violent criminal from the US was suspected of coming north through the Canadian border crossing. The Canadian law enforcement wanted to place armed guards in the booths and the border guards said screw that - they don't want to be in the line of fire (rightly so, IMO). So the cops moved their roadblocks further into Canada and directed the border guards to let the criminal through. The border guards wanted no part of this "ambush", as that's nowhere in their job description and they have no means of defending themselves should the psycho smell a trap and go nuts.

Now all that being said, the border guards have wanted guns for a long time now. IMO, some of their desire is legitimate, but some of it is simply the desire to wield the power that carrying a firearm entails. Border guards aren't held to the same standard of qualifications as police are so the gov't is extremely reluctant to arm them - which is probably a wise decision.

From my point of view, I'd say the border guards should be armed but they should also be upgraded from mickey mouse toll booth collector-type workers to actual law enforcement; with all the increased job qualifications and responsibilities that that entails.

 

[The Lurker]

Well, no.

AK-47's are known to be poor in accuracy. H&K's too as they are full auto.

Glocks and S&W's are enough to stop slow moving traffic.

If you think for one minute that CNN is over-hyping this, you're wrong. If we don't defend our borders, the U.S. will. For my part, I would rather give our land back to the First Nations or even the QC!!

Manifest Destiny be DAMN'ed!!!

 

[AZN_LOVER]

For the Canadian boys & gals, definitely NO as many are summer students & part-time. Without proper training, they risk hurting themselves than protection. If safety was an issue, bulletproof vest is a start.

Yep, I used to be one of those students in the late 80's.

I worked one summer at the Peace Bridge and another at Queenston Lewiston.

The issue of armed Customs Officers was being discussed back then too, coz one summer in Windsor a female student was beaten senseless by an enraged US trucker.

As a result, the summer I started we were issued 2 way radios with a "panic button" which went off in the main office.

Basically the idea was we went running to the aid of the officer, and yes the "button" was pushed a couple of times, but never for anything as serious as happened in Windsor.

One canNOT issue firearms without ensuring everyone is properly trained, and I agree 22 year old students aren't people I'd want to be handling 40CAL Glocks !

I can tell you HONESTLY that I felt very safe working on the border. Usually the most dangerous people we'd deal with were Toronto shoppers smuggling in booze and cigarettes on a Saturday afternoon.

As a sidenote:

Americans are NOT allowed to carry their firearms (handguns) into Canada, but some seriously believe it's their God given right. If they don't want to turn them in to be held by Customs, they're turned back to the US....

.... and YES, some are stupid enough to turn around in Buffalo and try smuggling them in in Niagara Falls!

If the firearm is undeclared they're arrested on the spot, and the local police is called in to deal with them...

Ah, the good old days.... LOL

 

[ham2004]

Stand on Guard for Thee.. er.. You

Of course the poor slobs at the borders should be armed, they should have enough firepower to blow whomever threatens them to hell and back. Shotguns, riot rifles, mankillers, t-jackets, you name it they should have it. I also think a machine gun nest with fully trained, shoot to kill soliders in it would be a damn good idea too. I also think people entering or leaving Canada should be finger printed, carded and electroniclly tagged, just like we do our pets. Now that is how you get hard on Terrorism...

Then we can hear them say. "Have a nice day, eh"

But while on the subject of overkill, Toronto Cops should be armed and farking dangerous as well. Nothing says enforcement like a few dead bodies of punks who think they are "Killers", gang members beware, if I was the Toronto Chief of Police, your days would be numbered, your ass would be grass, and the fear of God as well as the stench of death would surround you..

 

[goodtime]

From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), the border guards wear bullet proof vests. Their argument is that if there's reason for them to wear vests, then there's reason for them to carry firearms. A pretty convincing argument, IMHO.
...
Border guards aren't held to the same standard of qualifications as police are so the gov't is extremely reluctant to arm them - which is probably a wise decision.

From my point of view, I'd say the border guards should be armed but they should also be upgraded from mickey mouse toll booth collector-type workers to actual law enforcement; with all the increased job qualifications and responsibilities that that entails.

The vest issue came up last few years. They only wear it on needed basis. Most don't because it's the old heavy model that doesn't breath well.

Our's are custom officiers, (U.S. refer to theirs as border guards) don't get adeque training. Just a classroom thing few times to teach them spot liars and profile smugglers and off they go.

In U.K. & HK, their custom officiers get same training as police, firearm is part of their training, even though they aren't issue a weapon.

IL, I heard about the Windsor incident as friends delivered take-out to border folks, their ids were the take-out.