Teachers are Spoiled Hindrances on Society

[Yuri]

From an article written in Toronto Star, Page A3, dated June 24, 2006, by Star Writer James Daw

" Provincial taxpayers would be soon paying more than $1.1 Billion Dollars a Year to maintain Ontario Teachers deluxe pensions under a new plan announced yesterday"

I could not beleive this article and the facts contained within. Taxpayers to pay for Teacher's Pensions is a huge f**kin disgrace. Someone tell me why I should be paying from my tax doillars a Pension to retired teachers in the first place. Would it be because they are contributing to the educational process of children...at retirement I think not..

I wonder who many people in our society even have a defined benefit pension plan when they retire, 25% at the most or how many people even have a private Pension Plan at all to look forward to all, 50% at best, and for those who do not have one, well the attitude from our government representatives seems to be " well, hope you die just after you turn 65"

Given that I am in the private sector, why should I pay for some'one elses Pension Income, especially to teachers, so they can relax at home starting at age 55, drinking & eating at 5 Star restaurants in their retirement years while I work 60 hours weeks, until I die from a heart-attack to support them ...Bullshit, teachers are the WORST WELFARE BUMBS/ cock-sucking leaches I have ever met in my life.

 

[basketcase]

I doubt that the story is true. The teachers pension divested itself of the provincial government years ago and has been doing well for itself. No tax dollars are involved beyond the payment from the municipal education dollars that goes to teachers salaries.

fyi. I couldn't find anything on the star's web site. Link please!

 

[Yuri]

I doubt that the story is true. The teachers pension divested itself of the provincial government years ago and has been doing well for itself. No tax dollars are involved beyond the payment from the municipal education dollars that goes to teachers salaries.
fyi. I couldn't find anything on the star's web site. Link please!

The link to the Story

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1151099410487

 

[Yuri]

I doubt that the story is true. The teachers pension divested itself of the provincial government years ago and has been doing well for itself. No tax dollars are involved beyond the payment from the municipal education dollars that goes to teachers salaries.

fyi. I couldn't find anything on the star's web site. Link please!

Sorry basketcase, but the Teachers Plan is in serious unfunded liability status as per article:

"Managers estimated the plan was short about $19 billion at current contribution rates as of the end of 2004, and $31.9 billion as of the end of 2005 after interest rates fell more.
Teachers' pension contribution rates have not changed since 1990, despite major improvements to benefits at a time when investment returns were higher than is now expected."

The end result is that the average person in Ontario, will have to fund the teachers unfunded liability, thats means me, you and others.....again tell me WHY should I pay from my pocket to fund a teachers pension ?????

 

[scouser1]

as a teacher I can say completely this story is nothing short of complete CRAP!!!!! the pension fund is completely self sufficient and is completely paid for by the teachers, nothing to do with government hand outs, and look at your source the Star, the biggest piece of shite paper ever, anyone see their paper yesterday, with the picture of a recent immigrant holding the picture of another recent immigrant and a blurb, on every freaking section!!! topped off with some lame stat like oh last week 67% of Mongolian Canadians used a number 2 pencil on Tuesday!!!

as for teachers being welfare bums and the sort, sit in a grade 7 class in the Jane/Finch or Markham and Eglinton area trying to control 30 kids whose home situation is horrible and then try to tell me they are welfare bums, the formula for determing retirement is called the 85 formula, where its your age plus the number of years you have been working has to total 85. So you will HARDLY ever see a 55 year old eating at a five star restaurant enjoying life while you work Yuri to support them.

 

[Macator2003]

From an article written in Toronto Star, Page A3, dated June 24, 2006, by Star Writer James Daw

" Provincial taxpayers would be soon paying more than $1.1 Billion Dollars a Year to maintain Ontario Teachers deluxe pensions under a new plan announced yesterday"

teachers are the WORST WELFARE BUMBS/ cock-sucking leaches I have ever met in my life.

I think both the comments above and the article in the Star are made with one thing in mind.......to get our attention....."welfare bums, cock-sucking leaches", don't hold back yuri, what do ya really mean??

The pension plan were I work had to get a grip on reality a couple of years ago and I am now paying a much higher rate. It sounds like the company involved with investing the teacher's pension fund is not doing their part.

As far as having Provincial taxpayers paying any money towards the Teacher's Pension Fund, it better be crap. I for one would never agree with this proposal...... I won't even get into the fact that most teachers are either wrapping things up this week or have already posted their "On vacation" signs on their classroom doors until the second week of September.

 

[masterchief]

. It sounds like the company involved with investing the teacher's pension fund is not doing their part.

-ask taken from Wikipedia-

The OTPP(Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan) maintains a prominent role as one of Canada's largest investors, owning investments across Canada. The plan has net assets of C$96.1 billion dollars (as of December 31, 2005).

Through its fully owned subsidiary Cadillac Fairview, the OTPP owns properties including the Toronto-Dominion Centre, Toronto Eaton Centre, the Rideau Centre in Ottawa, and most of the retial shopping centres in the GTA.

Through its investment arm, Teacher's Merchant Bank, the OTPP controls companies such as Samsonite, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, Maple Leaf Foods, Parmalat Canada, Doane Pet Care, Shoppers Drug Mart, and Worldspan. It recently acquired a 20% stake in Bell Globemedia.


It seems to me that they are doing just fine.

 

[dj1470]

The link to the Story

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1151099410487

To believe this nonsense from the left wing Star is ridiculous. The OTPP is completely self-sufficient. Talk about sensationalism!

 

[Yuri]

For the Teachers responding to my initial Thread.....refer to the following link:
http://www.osstf.on.ca/tpp/docs/95.pdf
This is a statement from ,Rhonda Kimberley-Young, President of the Ontario Secondary School Teachers's Federation (Thats your Union/Bargainiing Representative Body). Read the bulletin.
Pension funding is a "Joint" responsibility of the Teachers +/plus Ontario governement (that means by extension Taxpayers). If the position of the Union is to refuse added pension contribution levels from their Members than by extension the Government would be forced to match the funding requirements to minimize the funding deficit.
In short Taxpayers would fund the Pension Plan.
Another example of "double-speak" from teachers, who seem to be more interested in their own vested interests, and if that means screwing the general public, well so be it.
Spot your whinning, the truth is in the words.
By the way, I wish all teachers a happy 10 week holiday for the summer, in part paid by taxpayers.

 

[scouser1]

the link you provide is for the OSSTF one of the worst paid and big time suckered unions on the planet, between the province and the union big wigs you are lucky to get anything out of this union.

As for teachers being spoiled hindrances on society, wow that is an extremely educated statement, I mean teachers arent important hmmm, having a society that educates their children and brings them up right isnt important, no wonder other countries are running circles around us in terms of educational levels and research and development.

Although I will agree with the statement the teachers pension plan is one of the best in the world only because it is run so well, investing smartly the trouble is you need that factor 85 to qualify to even see any of it, although you can transfer it to another pension plan if you leave the profession.

 

[xarir]

Regarding the plan deficit, it's their own fault really. Plans just can't be defined benefit anymore. The Teacher's Union or whatever it's called needs to convert to defined contribution for their own well-being.

Anyone know what the situation is in other provinces? How are teachers' pensions doing outside of Ontario?

 

[Yuri]

, the formula for determing retirement is called the 85 formula, where its your age plus the number of years you have been working has to total 85. So you will HARDLY ever see a 55 year old eating at a five star restaurant enjoying life while you work Yuri to support them.

Let me see, do the math, Teacher starts profession at age 25 Yrs, teaches for the next 30 years until age 55...30 yrs contribution period + age 55, well thats 30 +55 = Factor 85 fulfilled.

Eligilility for Retirement = Age 55

The reality is, Teachers have a sweetheart deal negotiated with the Government, under a historical threat of "strike" actions, wherein past governemnts capitulated to their demands, Now we the taxpayers have to pay the "price"

 

[masterchief]

Although I will agree with the statement the teachers pension plan is one of the best in the world only because it is run so well, investing smartly

Actually it's not.

The plan was reported to have a C$21.8 billion actuarial deficit as of December 31, 2005

Also here's some food for thought.

-Teachers currently have no choice about being in the OTPP and no say over where their money gets invested.

-The OTPP is Canada’s largest investor in coal (in Luscar and Fording coal companies), the burning of which causes respiratory disease in children and seniors, and releases more greenhouse gasses than any other fuel.

-The OTPP invests billions in other fossil fuels, including $79 million in Imperial (Esso/Exxon), the leading company fighting global warming solutions worldwide.

-The OTPP invests $40 million in Phillip Morris whose Marlboro brand is smoked by more US children than all other brands combined.


Oh let's not forget that the OTTP's own unionized employees (through OPSEU) had to go on strike this year, once the OTTP tried to force a longer work week on them. The OTTP went as far as issuing an internal statement to it's employee's recommending that they cross picket lines scab thier own jobs.

The head of the OTTP, Claude Lamoureux (who's annual wage is 5.54 Million dollars) against the wishes of his own members who pay his salary openly was pushing a strike breaking agenda. So let's see ,a powerful Union fund is against fair treatment of thier own employees who are also unionized.

That sounds like great management.

 

[littleboyblue]

Well Yuri, without teachers you wouldn't be able to read that article or write your complaint.

 

[Yuri]

As for teachers being spoiled hindrances on society, wow that is an extremely educated statement, I mean teachers arent important hmmm, having a society that educates their children and brings them up right isnt important, no wonder other countries are running circles around us in terms of educational levels and research and development.

.

OK lets do the Math....Education/Learning is NOT, repeat NOT, the sole domain of Teachers, PARENTS (ie. taxpayers) and self-learning (ie. librairies, personal life experiences) have a more than significant input on the holoistic learning experience, so don't use that lame, self-serving, righteous thesis that Teachers educate our children on an exclusive basis.

"Other countries are running circles" because the educational environment and learning ciriculmn is being administered by lax, lazy so-called professionals. that are more concerned about their weekends, holidays, pension plans and 5 Hr work days than the economic competitiveness’ of our labour force, as measured by intellectual capacities.

 

[Yuri]

Well Yuri, without teachers you wouldn't be able to read that article or write your complaint.

Bite Me Pal...(no offense) when I came to Canada, I could not speak or write English, my Parents and my own self-discipline and desire to learn contributed to any attributed academic accolades that I presently enjoy...In fact a fat-assed female teacher refreed to me as being a "ignorant foreigner" because I could not speak english, when I was 5 years old.

 

[james t kirk]

I have very mixed emotions about teachers.

On one hand, they have to put up with a room full of brats (mind you, I put up with several whinie clients which bust my ass far more) but I couldn't do it. I mean, I'd be like, "You little asshole, if you don't want to work, well fuck you" Which wouldn't cut it.

On the other hand teachers are very well paid and really don't have to work a whole hell of a lot of hours. If you drive by my local schools right now - Sunday, the parking lot will be empty.

I am going into work later this afternoon for 4 or 5 hours to "catch up" as I typically do about every second weekend on average throughout the year. I GUARANTEE, there will be several other people in the office today.

Some teachers know they have it made in the shade, but they are the minority. Usually the ones who have worked very demanding jobs at one time or another.

Most think they are hard done by and will often tell you, "I'd make way more money if I worked in the private sector" My response is, "Really? What do you think you would do and for that matter, how much do you think you would be making?" Accountants, engineers, nurses, tech people, hell, even some lawyers make about the same, or less than teachers and work probably twice the number of hours in a year. No such thing as the whole summer off, in fact, if you ask for 2 weeks off, they look at you like you are a dog fucker.

A lot of teachers think that they are not making good dough, when in fact, they are making GREAT dough with safe working conditions (how many teachers were killed on the job last year?), fantastic holidays, fantastic benefits and a great pension plan.

 

[james t kirk]

Funny teachers pension story.

I was having dinner with 3 teachers once and we go onto the subject of pensions.

Teacher: "What's your pension plan like at work"

Me: "We don't have a pension plan"

Teacher" What do you mean you don' t have a pension plan" (puzzled look)

Me: "WE DON'T HAVE A PENSION PLAN"

Teacher: "But you work for a huge company"

Me: "Yeah, so, they aren't about to fund a pension plan, that' d cost money"

Teacher:"But don't most people have pension plans?"

Me: "No, you just think that everyone has it easy like you guys"

Teacher, "But you make more money than me" (as if to imply that I could afford to fund my own RRSP so much easier)

Me: "Not really, not that much more, and if you figure out your wage over 9 months of work, you make more than me"


True story, swear to god. She had no idea of what "the real world" is like.

 

[dj1470]

OK lets do the Math....Education/Learning is NOT, repeat NOT, the sole domain of Teachers, PARENTS (ie. taxpayers) and self-learning (ie. librairies, personal life experiences) have a more than significant input on the holoistic learning experience, so don't use that lame, self-serving, righteous thesis that Teachers educate our children on an exclusive basis.

"Other countries are running circles" because the educational environment and learning ciriculmn is being administered by lax, lazy so-called professionals. that are more concerned about their weekends, holidays, pension plans and 5 Hr work days than the economic competitiveness’ of our labour force, as measured by intellectual capacities.

You obviously have a problem with teachers in general. To call teachers lazy, lax, and only concerned about holidays is extremely irresponsible. You have had a bad experience with a teacher is my guess. Teachers from pre-school to university and those who teach to train in jobs are very important.

I believe your bias is towards those teachers who teach from grades 1-12. Your overidding problem is with their pension plan and, perhaps moreso, the fact they get about two months off in the summer.

Your greatest ignorance is that teachers only work 5 hours a day. This is very wrong. I can only speak from personal experience but I know several teachers and they are routinely at work by 8am everyday and seldom leave until 5pm minimum. Whether it be extracurricular coaching, clubs, councils, or just simple marking and grading as well as planning most teachers I know average, at minimum, 45-50 hours a week in the school. Teachers don't only "work" when the children are in school. They frequently bring their work home and go in on weekends to plan. I am told that it takes 15 min. of planning for every hour teaching a class. Many times teachers in their day do not get breaks due to supervision duties (that pesky keeping the kids safe thing) and other duties such as extra learning help to students. On top of all this they actually have to "teach" something to children. Not to mention trying to maintain some semblance of order with, for instance, a group of 30 fifteen year olds who really don't want, but need to, be there. Imagine trying to wrangle cats

On the whole all the teachers I know are the most dedicated people I know. Giving of themselves to help youth grow and flourish. Remember teachers don't just teach. They are coaches, mentors, social workers, psychologists, and to some children - defacto parents. And yes, friends as well.

Yuri, you are obviously mad at something. You say it's the pension plan or Canada's lack of economic competitveness (don't know how teachers are responsible for this but OK) or the fact that some of "your" tax dollars are supporting them as they, as most pensions need to these days, try to cope with the growing number of baby boomers retiring.

In the end, you are an uneducated and misread idiot who knows nothing about what he speaks.

 

[papasmerf]

The majporty of teacher, I know have never had the pleaser of supporting themselfs outside an accidemic environment. Many have had BS jobs while in school. Few have had to work in an industrial envronment. Even less have worked at a trade. Their short school year and bennifits are very attractive.

As for pensions only a government job insures pension pans aginst loss. If my pension fund looses money, I loose money. Such is life.

I have joked wth a few teacher friends, that I would like to retire to teaching and enjoy my holidays and summers off. Most agree they have it good.