Teachers Taking "Sick Days" - Anyone want to defend this one?

[CTSblues]

Bigger and bigger deficits are the inherent risk in any democracy (actually, in any government), panem et circenses. I feel your pain. There are two possible solutions; either do without, or pay more. Only problem is, most people are not willing to do either, so deficits grow and solutions get pushed back until the whole thing collapses.

My recommendation is for taxpayers to run their own social spending based on their share of it. At the end of the year, they should either receive a refund or an additional tax tagged on to their tax return. Who know our needs and wants better than us, right?

This would give us an incentive to save. Right now we operate as though 5 people all sharing the same credit card and each of us is responsible for 1/5 of it. In a situation like this, the biggest fool is the one trying to save!

Most of the posters reminds me of Ayn Rand's Twentieth Century Motor Company, where each member is hoping they can come up with a system where they can privatize their earnings but socialize their debt. Unfortunately life does not operate like this.

Btw, I did my graduate work in the Big Ten, not too far from Indiana. I find our high school grads better than yours, but we don't have the quality of graduate schools that you have.

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

I found where you're getting that number from. That's a calculation of salary PLUS benefits (not sure what the worth of benefits are or how they're calculated).

Average salary alone in Ontario wouldn't equate to 83k. As I say, go to teachers college. Wait the on average 3 to 4 years to get hired permanently, and you'll possibly be making in salary and benefits 83k by 2024. Highrollin'

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=87a4c1b1-0b71-4271-9392-7eae48f18210

The average salary is $83K.
END OF ARGUEMENT!

There have been several threads on this and several quoted websites which explicitly state the average is $83K
There a lot of teachers with many years experience sticking it to the tax payer.

Please supply an official source refuting the average if you still do not understand / believe how expensive this group is

The issue is not what I would make if I started teaching
The issue is what it is costing the province right now and in the future

 

[onthebottom]

I can't speak for Ontario, but in the states, teachers get the short end of the stick every time. Many have to resort to buying their own classroom supplies, because the school budget has all been spent on the sports teams. Most are required to perform frequent extra duties without pay; monitoring after school detention or study sessions, working weekends for test preparation and taking work home because there isn't enough time in their day to complete all they need to do. Add to that the lousy pay most receive and it's a rather thankless job.

If you require the teachers to take all of their paid time off every year, or lose those days, then why wouldn't they take the time off? How often do you tell your employer "no thanks, you don't have to pay me every thing you agreed on when you hired me"? Why should the teachers be any different?

Letting anyone bank unpaid time off indefinitely can lead to problems. A teacher that has worked 40 years and never missed a day would be due a significant amount of money at retirement, at their current level of pay, significantly more than what the pay was when they earned those days. The simple solution is to place a limit of 2 years on the days they can accrue, and then allow them to sell the days back at the end of the year. The teachers are getting their days or getting paid for them, so no need to take all the days and the schools don't have to worry about the significant impact the time value of money will have on their budgets.

This is silly, teachers get an abundance of time off (working short days 8 months a year), taking days for illness as yet more vacation just shows how little character they have and what a low regard they hold their students.

 

[blackrock13]

This is silly, teachers get an abundance of time off (working short days 8 months a year), taking days for illness as yet more vacation just shows how little character they have and what a low regard they hold their students.

I bet you think bankers only work 10-4 as well.

 

[jjbee62]

My recommendation is for taxpayers to run their own social spending based on their share of it. At the end of the year, they should either receive a refund or an additional tax tagged on to their tax return. Who know our needs and wants better than us, right?

This would give us an incentive to save. Right now we operate as though 5 people all sharing the same credit card and each of us is responsible for 1/5 of it. In a situation like this, the biggest fool is the one trying to save!

Most of the posters reminds me of Ayn Rand's Twentieth Century Motor Company, where each member is hoping they can come up with a system where they can privatize their earnings but socialize their debt. Unfortunately life does not operate like this.

Btw, I did my graduate work in the Big Ten, not too far from Indiana. I find our high school grads better than yours, but we don't have the quality of graduate schools that you have.

I have no doubt your high schools are turning out better graduates. Our schools are more worried about forcing the children to pray, say the Pledge of Allegiance and learn that "don't do that until you're married" is all the sex education they need, than about teaching students. The big push is to prep students for assessment tests, which are used to distribute school funding.

 

[saxon]

Why should the taxpayer pay a teacher or any other cival servant to take the day off? The vast majority of the private sector doesn't get sick days.

 

[ZenSouljah]

It's amazing how many people don't actually know what teachers do, how much time is involved and how bad the kids and parents are getting. That and this bullshit of the "taxpayer" shouldn't pay for this and that..hate to tell you this, but teachers pay taxes just like everyone else, making them, yes...taxpayers!

 

[JohnLarue]

I found where you're getting that number from. That's a calculation of salary PLUS benefits (not sure what the worth of benefits are or how they're calculated).

Average salary alone in Ontario wouldn't equate to 83k. As I say, go to teachers college. Wait the on average 3 to 4 years to get hired permanently, and you'll possibly be making in salary and benefits 83k by 2024. Highrollin'

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=87a4c1b1-0b71-4271-9392-7eae48f18210

The average salary is $83K
there is probably another $15-20 K in benefit costs to the province

The average teacher costs the province in excess of $100 K per year
In return they teach what 2 , maybe 3 classes a day for a grand total of maybe 5 hours of actual work and they work maybe 180 days relative to the 250 the taxpayer works.

You say "Go to teachers college"
I say " I could teach & be very effective, however I have other career aspirations & my work ethic would not be challenged"

This is not about comparing what I make to teachers
This is about receiving value for my tax dollars & social parasites exploiting the taxpayer.

How about you write a six figure cheque to Revenue Canada & then we will ask you if you still think they should be paid in the top5- 10% of all Canadians

Read this
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...an-ontario-teachers-paycheque/article6015968/

This analysis of teacher compensation is based on the contract between the province and the Ontario Secondary School Teachers Association at the Toronto District School Board. Each board in the province has slightly different terms.

Salary

Annual starting salary for a new teacher at lowest and highest pay rates: $45,709, $55,404

Salary for a teacher with more than 10 years of service at the lowest and highest pay rates: $76,021, $94,707

(Teachers can reach the top pay scale 10 years after starting their careers. Within each pay scale there are four groups, which are based on teachers’ education and extra training, as well as years of experience. The pay raises based on years of teaching have taken effect automatically on Sept. 1. In Bill 115, the government has imposed a delay to Feb. 1 and asked teachers to also take three unpaid days.)

Sick leave

Teachers are credited for 20 sick days per year. If they don’t use them all, the remainder can be banked indefinitely until retirement and cashed out up to a maximum of half a year’s pay. Bill 115 reduces allowed sick days to 10 per year and eliminates the ability to bank unused days until retirement.

Benefits

Teachers have an extended health-care plan that is 100-per-cent funded by the employer and dental plan funded 94 per cent by the employer. They also have group life insurance coverage, with the first $35,000 of coverage paid by the board and any additional coverage paid by the teacher.

Pension contributions

Annual pension contributions for teachers equal 10.8 per cent of pay up to $50,100 a year and then 12.4 per cent of any pay above $50,100. A teacher earning $75,000 in 2012 will contribute $8,498 to her pension plan, while a teacher earning $51,000 will contribute $5,522 to his pension.

Pension eligibility

Teachers are eligible to retire with a full pension at age 65 or when their years of work plus their age equals 85.

Pension payout

Teachers receive a pension based on their years of service and their best five years’ average salary. A teacher who retires with a full pension, worked for 32 years and earned a best-five-years average salary of $60,000 would have a basic pension of $38,400. A teacher earning $90,000 a year with 32 years of service would have an annual pension of $57,600. The pension amounts are reduced once teachers are old enough to begin collecting CPP payments because the teachers’ pension plan is designed to be integrated with CPP.

 

[GPIDEAL]

It's amazing how many people don't actually know what teachers do, how much time is involved and how bad the kids and parents are getting. That and this bullshit of the "taxpayer" shouldn't pay for this and that..hate to tell you this, but teachers pay taxes just like everyone else, making them, yes...taxpayers!

Having the summer off is enough of a break from bad kids and parents. Banking sick days is too much still (unless they gave that to them in lieu of past salary cuts or freezes of equal value).

 

[ZenSouljah]

Here's another question for all of you who get pissed off that teachers get "summers" off...(in reality they get from the end of June until mid way through August...assuming they aren't teaching summer school, or tutoring or doing university courses to further their careers) what would you have them do if they didn't take summers off? Work year round? Kids would not be able to handle that.

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

The average salary is $83K
there is probably another $15-20 K in benefit costs to the province

Wrong. And the fact you keep posting it won't make it right.

 

[scouser1]

The average salary is $83K
there is probably another $15-20 K in benefit costs to the province

The average teacher costs the province in excess of $100 K per year
In return they teach what 2 , maybe 3 classes a day for a grand total of maybe 5 hours of actual work and they work maybe 180 days relative to the 250 the taxpayer works.

You say "Go to teachers college"
I say " I could teach & be very effective, however I have other career aspirations & my work ethic would not be challenged"

This is not about comparing what I make to teachers
This is about receiving value for my tax dollars & social parasites exploiting the taxpayer.

How about you write a six figure cheque to Revenue Canada & then we will ask you if you still think they should be paid in the top5- 10% of all Canadians

Read this
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...an-ontario-teachers-paycheque/article6015968/

social parasites hmm? wow you are really a piece of work, your grandiose claims about worrying about tax payers, and your "career aspirations"? so educating future generations, building tomorrow's citizens and teaching how to behave like a normal human being isnt work to you? and that claim of 5 hours of work a day is an absolute blatant lie that your neo con types like to conjure up. There is lesson planning, mountains of marking, department meetings, calling up parents explaining to them that there kid isnt an angel and is getting 17% in a class he needs to graduate. I am not complaining, my job is the greatest in the world which I wouldn't trade for an office one (been there, done that, was bored out of my skull) but this latest trend of "lets get the teachers" mobs by neo con goofs like you who spew rhetoric and twisted numbers and facts is just really annoying. End of tirade and my participation in this thread.

 

[jjbee62]

Why should the taxpayer pay a teacher or any other cival servant to take the day off? The vast majority of the private sector doesn't get sick days.

I'm not sure "vast majority" is a correct assessment. Granted, the burger flippers at McDonald's aren't getting paid sick days, neither are many other jobs with minimal or no education requirements. I think you'll find the majority of positions that require a college degree plus certification, offer paid time off in addition to paid vacations and other benefits. Many such positions also offer financial assistance for career development, such as tuition reimbursement.

If you are a parent, would you really want your child's teacher coming to school when they have the flu? Next thing you know 400 new cases of the flu are on their way home to infect the rest of the family.

The time to argue about the current contract was before the contract was accepted and signed. Perhaps when contract time rolls around again, the public will be more involved in the process.

 

[destillat]

If you are a parent, would you really want your child's teacher coming to school when they have the flu? Next thing you know 400 new cases of the flu are on their way home to infect the rest of the family.

The argument is not about legitimate sick time being taken...

 

[FAST]

There is a difference

The argument is not about legitimate sick time being taken...

THAT,...really is the whole point of this thread,...isn't it !!!

Sure, people, including me, have taken the odd "not so sick" day, but this BS by the teachers, is in a whole different league.

In fact, they are throwing it in the general public's face,...piss poor attitude.

And NO, the general public don't give a shit about your so called "forced" contract,...grow up and face reality !!!

FAST

 

[JohnLarue]

You say "Go to teachers college"
I say " I could teach & be very effective, however I have other career aspirations & my work ethic would not be challenged"

I forgot to point out that I would burst into flames if I had to sign a union card
I could never teach if it required joining a union

 

[JohnLarue]

so educating future generations, building tomorrow's citizens and teaching how to behave like a normal human being isn't work to you?

The current lot of teachers places a higher priority on protecting their excessive perks than they place on teaching kids how to behave like normal humans
They place their bargaining rights ahead of the kids interest when they shut down extra curricular & now they walk out on the kids to ensure they use up all of their sick days

And they get $83 K + the next 2 1/2 months paid vacation.
Teaching is not about preparing the next generation for this current set of parasites.
It is about enriching themselves at the govt's expense.
To them the kids are just bargaining pawns

and that claim of 5 hours of work a day is an absolute blatant lie that your neo con types like to conjure up.

The parking lot just happens to empty @ 3:16 for no apparent reason then?

There is lesson planning, mountains of marking, department meetings, calling up parents explaining to them that there kid isn't an angel and is getting 17% in a class he needs to graduate.

Its time you grew up
Every job has its little annoyances, meetings, communication with clients, extra responsibilities and pressure
Teachers do not get fired. The average salesman has to sell a lot of product and really hustle to make $83 K and if he does not increase his volume every year, he may get fired
& I am getting sick and tired of hearing about all time teachers spend marking & how they think they are so special
Try the real world for a while

If you are getting paid $83K you damn well better be organized enough to mark 30 tests in a couple of hours
do you need to look up the answer after teaching the subject for 15 years?

I am not complaining, my job is the greatest in the world which I wouldn't trade for an office one (been there, done that, was bored out of my skull) but this latest trend of "lets get the teachers" mobs by neo con goofs like you who spew rhetoric and twisted numbers and facts is just really annoying. End of tirade and my participation in this thread.[/

#1 The numbers are correct, please provide a counter source if you insist the are not
#2 You are annoyed?
Too F###ing bad, did you not expect some negative feedback when you
a) screwed the kids over by shutting down the extra curricular
b) screwed the taxpayer by claiming sick days when not sick

Too much!

 

[JohnLarue]

The average salary is $83K
there is probably another $15-20 K in benefit costs to the province

Wrong. And the fact you keep posting it won't make it right.

I provided a link proving they are correct, you provided your ill informed opinion

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

I don't know why I keep feeding the troll. Your link doesn't say 83000 is the average salary. My link that i posted earlier says 83 000 is the cost for the average salary plus benefits for a teacher in ontario. http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...2-7eae48f18210

I provided a link proving they are correct, you provided your ill informed opinion

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

"You say "Go to teachers college"
I say " I could teach & be very effective, however I have other career aspirations & my work ethic would not be challenged"

That part about your work ethic not being challenged is comedic gold, too. I almost spit out my beer reading that. You truly are one of those guys who actually believes his own bullshit. I feel sorry for you.