Tearing down the Gardiner - WTF??

[yaya17]

http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2008/07/16/6169321-sun.html


I think this might be the stupidest idea yet from the idiot mayor and his lemmings within City Hall.

First of all this mayor has pissed away whatever money the city had in its coffers on useless social programs while at the same time cutting back on things such as snow removal, police budgets, and garbage removal. It's brutally obvious that the city is operating in the red.

Now they have decided to spend up to 11 million on a enviromental assessment and what effect tearing down the Gardiner would have.

I'll tell you what effect it will have - how about FUCKING GRIDLOCK between Jarvis and the bottom of the DVP as well has snarled traffic along Front, King, Adelaide, Queen, Jarvis, and Parliament. The thought of this happening just makes me shake my head. How about the emmissions of a parking lot full of cars running for hours on end trying to make their way to the parkway? How's that for an enviromental assessment Mr. Mayor???

It wasn't that long ago (30 years +/-) that another idiot left wing mayor/city council decided against taking the Allen Expressway all the way to the QEW just west of Exibition Place. Just think about how easy is would be now to get into the downtown core if the Allen had gone all the way down.

Now they are deciding if they should tear down a part of highway that moves around 120,000 cars a day.

Makes a lot of sense to me......NOT

 

[eldoguy]

Do nothing! Or you can let it fall down! Like in Montreal.

 

[Mia.Colpa]

Whoa, slow down there buddy, take a breather and then rethink it again when you cool down, lol.

I'm no Miller fan, but I'm all for making this city a better one and on an international scale. There are pros and cons no matter what you do. Financially we would be better off in the long run due to the waterfront revitalization, more taxes from more developements, so look at the $11 million as an investment for the future. From a traffic perspective, let the pros work that one out. There are many professional traffic engineers and planners who are much more qualified than you and me to comment on this one.

 

[incognito]

Whoa, slow down there buddy, take a breather and then rethink it again when you cool down, lol.

I'm no Miller fan, but I'm all for making this city a better one and on an international scale. There are pros and cons no matter what you do. Financially we would be better off in the long run due to the waterfront revitalization, more taxes from more developements, so look at the $11 million as an investment for the future. From a traffic perspective, let the pros work that one out. There are many professional traffic engineers and planners who are much more qualified than you and me to comment on this one.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH....you mean like the pro who designed the 404/DVP that bottlenecks over the 401? Or the pro who thought up of the HOV lanes that goes from 16th ave to the 401? Nice.

 

[Never Compromised]

Whoa, slow down there buddy, take a breather and then rethink it again when you cool down, lol.

I'm no Miller fan, but I'm all for making this city a better one and on an international scale. There are pros and cons no matter what you do. Financially we would be better off in the long run due to the waterfront revitalization, more taxes from more developements, so look at the $11 million as an investment for the future. From a traffic perspective, let the pros work that one out. There are many professional traffic engineers and planners who are much more qualified than you and me to comment on this one.

ROTFLMAO

You really think that "water front development" is going to put money in the hands of anyone other than developers and the people they are in bed with?

Just where do you expect the traffic to go to?

 

[eldoguy]

ROTFLMAO

You really think that "water front development" is going to put money in the hands of anyone other than developers and the people they are in bed with?

Just where do you expect the traffic to go to?

They have one proposed plan to build highways and bridges exending into the lake around Toronto Island then conect to the Leslie Spit more cost effecient. Rather than digging a tunnel from Humber Bay to DVP.Then making it a toll.


ROTFMAO

 

[mandrill]

Yup. World's dummest idea for the city, which will become one huge gridlock. World's smartest idea for the developers and thier lackeys on council who will make a fortune.

 

[basketcase]

Wasn't this covered a month or two ago? If anything, the section from the Ex to Jarvis is what should be torn down (or leave the damn thing up - plenty of people seem to have no problem buying condos that overlook the damn thing).

 

[rgkv]

take it down..........take it all down.......

 

[basketcase]

I'd pay more tax to see the thing buried (physically, not metaphorically).

 

[shack]

so look at the $11 million as an investment for the future. From a traffic perspective, let the pros work that one out. There are many professional traffic engineers and planners who are much more qualified than you and me to comment on this one.

The $11 mill is just for the study. As Sheik said it's going to be about $400mill to demolish it and then there's the fallout of when it's gone.

As far as all the planner etc. etc. I don't trust anybody anymore. Everyone has an agenda. Don't be naive enough to think that whoever is doing the hiring of these planners/consultants is hiring people who they know will give the answers they want.

The city is getting bigger but they want less roads.

 

[tboy]

Whoa, slow down there buddy, take a breather and then rethink it again when you cool down, lol.

I'm no Miller fan, but I'm all for making this city a better one and on an international scale. There are pros and cons no matter what you do. Financially we would be better off in the long run due to the waterfront revitalization, more taxes from more developements, so look at the $11 million as an investment for the future. From a traffic perspective, let the pros work that one out. There are many professional traffic engineers and planners who are much more qualified than you and me to comment on this one.

Not to jump on the bandwagon but honestly, any traffic planner knows NOTHING about planning traffic. Maybe what they learned in the school books but out in the real world? DUH

The DVP south from the 401 is a great example: They have on ramps and exits within 100 yds of a major interchange (york mills), the off/on ramps are fricken scary even when there's little traffic, you have on and off ramps on blind curves (don mills)......oh yeah, how about the ON ramp from the Lakeshore westbound to the Gardiner EAST bound. THat is the DUMBEST concept known to man. Ok, so someone who is travelling west bound wants to turn around and go eastbound BACK into the city? Why wouldn't they just go to the next eastbound on ramp? And don't even get me started with the on/off ramp situaton at Dunn (or should I say DUNCE) avenue.....

As for developing the harbourfront, have you been there lately? There isn't much more land to develope. Other than a few parking lots everything is pretty much built on.

Yes, the gardiner takes a lot of maintenance. It is like any raised roadway in a variable and cold climate like ours. But what's the alternative? ALL the lanes of it, and the Lakeshore underneath are already at capacity so if the gardiner goes, where do you put those 8 - 10 lanes of traffic?

Sure, I'm all for increasing public transit/Go Trains but they are also at capacity so if you take the cars off the road, how does he plan to get the people into the city and out of it at night? He doesn't (or he's going to spend another 11 million to figure it out).

 

[tboy]

I'd pay more tax to see the thing buried (physically, not metaphorically).

OH shit, take a look at Boston's Big Dig and see what that cost them. Sure it works but the cost........

 

[james t kirk]

Whoa, slow down there buddy, take a breather and then rethink it again when you cool down, lol.

I'm no Miller fan, but I'm all for making this city a better one and on an international scale. There are pros and cons no matter what you do. Financially we would be better off in the long run due to the waterfront revitalization, more taxes from more developements, so look at the $11 million as an investment for the future. From a traffic perspective, let the pros work that one out. There are many professional traffic engineers and planners who are much more qualified than you and me to comment on this one.

It will be traffic chaos.

I'm all for it if they are replacing it with something better - say a tunnel with a park on top. Howver, building a 12 lane "great road" or 8 lane "University AVenue Like Road" is just double talk (war is peace). They can get all the artist's renderings that they want, at the end of the day, you will have grid lock, air pollution (cars stoping and accelerating as opposed to cruising through), noise pollution (brakes, tires, acceleration) and pure havoc on the DVP and the Gardiner.

Standard lane widths are 3.75 metres. (Say 12 feet).

That's 144 feet of just roadway. (Run for you life.)

If the City feels like spending 750 million dollars (cause that's what it will cost) they'd be far better off spending it on building a subway on Eglinton.

Say what you want about the Gardiner, but it works.

(BTW, I pay my property taxes in the 416).

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that this is all about rasing property values for the developers and financial backers of the the Nightmare on Spadina and the soon to be nightmare on the Waterfront. (The same Asian money is behind BOTH developments.) They want to tear down the Gardiner (but only from Spadina on) to the DVP.

Hmmmm, and who owns the development all along Spadina on the former railway lands and who owns the development at the bottom of the DVP??? Yep, same Asian guys who want to tear down the Gardiner making it damn near impossible to get to the current downtown core. All these guys are interested in is making LOTS of money. Solution - move the downtown core to us, and build lots of ugly boxes with spandrel glass cause it doesn't get any cheaper than that.

You want the truth, always follow the money.

 

[james t kirk]

Cost to demolish.... 200 to 300 million. Cost to maintain over 10 years 90 million.

I would rather they left it up and just maintained the highway before they shut down a major artery causing gridlock on both the DVP and Gardiner.

People need to start educating the idiots about why voting for MILLER is such a bad idea. The guy offers no solutions that will benefit the city and is driving us into a fiscal nightmare.

Absolutely true.

And one other thing. The consulting firms that they will hire are all whores and will say whatever the guys paying the bills want them to say. Of that, I can assure you.

 

[bobber]

Traffic Gridlock

They talk about the "new" Lakeshore handling the traffic from both the Gardiner and the current Lakeshore. Give me a break!!

The lower part of the city, during the tear-down and the build-up process will be totally gridlocked. All the southbound traffic on the DVP will be funnelled onto Richmond. And they don't expect that this will cause gridlock!!

I live in mid-town Toronto and use the DVP southbound from Bayview to head westbound along the Gardiner and the QEW several times a week. If they start on this nonsense, I will move westbound to Mississauga and let all the people who voted for Miller and his crew to suffer and whine and complain about the traffic gridlock. No me. I will laughing.

I will also save money on my car licence and and transfer fees.

 

[cortes]

Tear the whole thing down

The preliminary study on traffic patterns showed that tearing down the Gardiner would add at most a few minutes to commute times. The study used 2006 data and ran it through a traffic computer model employed by Waterfront Toronto. While many people may find this counterintuitive, there is no reason to doubt that the model is robust. Furthermore, the data (and presumably the model itself) do not take into account the impact of increasing gas prices and growing environmentalism. I think it highly likely that high fuel prices will be with us for the long term, and that political pressure favouring mass transit at the expense of private vehicle use will only accelerate. These two factors will likely contribute to lower private vehicle use over the long term than that predicated by the existing model.

I, for one, can't wait for the day that the Gardiner is torn down in its entirety. Whatever your views on commuting, the expressway is a brutal eyesore that has cut Toronto off from the one geographic element that distinguishes an otherwise dull and uninspiring setting: the lake. Toronto is an unprepossessing city with no strong sense of identity. To a great extent this is an outcome of a planning process that has historically lacked vision and leadership. If you compare Chicago and Toronto, you will find that the former, in addition to possessing a wealth of superior architecture and having made major investments in public art, has made the development of the waterfront and its integration with the city a priority. The results are clear for everyone to see: Chicago is a truly world class city with a strong sense of itself and a vibrant waterfront that is a major attraction for residents and tourists alike. Toronto is not.

 

[The Cunning Linguist]

The preliminary study on traffic patterns showed that tearing down the Gardiner would add at most a few minutes to commute times. The study used 2006 data and ran it through a traffic computer model employed by Waterfront Toronto. While many people may find this counterintuitive, there is no reason to doubt that the model is robust. Furthermore, the data (and presumably the model itself) do not take into account the impact of increasing gas prices and growing environmentalism. I think it highly likely that high fuel prices will be with us for the long term, and that political pressure favouring mass transit at the expense of private vehicle use will only accelerate. These two factors will likely contribute to lower private vehicle use over the long term than that predicated by the existing model.

I, for one, can't wait for the day that the Gardiner is torn down in its entirety. Whatever your views on commuting, the expressway is a brutal eyesore that has cut Toronto off from the one geographic element that distinguishes an otherwise dull and uninspiring setting: the lake. Toronto is an unprepossessing city with no strong sense of identity. To a great extent this is an outcome of a planning process that has historically lacked vision and leadership. If you compare Chicago and Toronto, you will find that the former, in addition to possessing a wealth of superior architecture and having made major investments in public art, has made the development of the waterfront and its integration with the city a priority. The results are clear for everyone to see: Chicago is a truly world class city with a strong sense of itself and a vibrant waterfront that is a major attraction for residents and tourists alike. Toronto is not.

Look guys....His Eminent Blondness is on the board.....

 

[yaya17]

You ever tried to drive up or down through Chicago on the east side??


ITS A FUCKING PARKING LOT

and they have a better public transit system

 

[rgkv]

Get used to it...........my monies on it coming down