The reason we have to fight

[onthebottom]

I agree there is an Israeli issue.
But, there is also a goal to stabalize
the ME, rid the region of dictators
and introduce 'democracy' as a
form of government.

Oil is obvious.

There is no information that supports
the issue of terrorism in Iraq. Saddam
did not export terrorism. He was a
terrorist to the Iraqis who weren't
part of his Baathist/Sunni supporters.

No, I don't think Iraq had anything to do with terrorism, Iran on the other hand..... and Afghanistan.

We only put this level of resources into the Middle East because the world economy needs a stable and consistent flow of oil and Israel is under threat.

OTB

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

At least looking at the money lobiests spend, the power of the Jewish community seems to be a myth. It gets repeated enough so people believe it.

I think that a lot of this comes from the two big parties trying to increase their base and the Jewish community is one target. If many Jews are fiscally conservative but socially liberal, votes can swing either way. This also ignores the fact that there are many Jews who are "bleeding heart lefties" and others who are "cold hearted righties" who's votes will never change. To ascribe a specific view to an entire group seems pretty idiotic to me. There are Jews who support Israel, those who don't, and those who don't care. For the most part, Jews are just like Christians. They consider themselves American (or Canadian) and want a good life for themselves and those close to them.

I did not "ascribe a specific view to an entire group" as you said. I said you cannot deny the influence certain groups have on American policy. A big difference.

Money and lobbyist are not the only vehicle for gaining influence.

 

[basketcase]

American support for Israel before cold war poilitics intervened was very minimal. They didn't put their money where their mouths were. Military aid didn't start until 1960 and the aid didn't become significant until the 70's and the war in '73 which was very much a Cold War battle.

 

[Anbarandy]

Does Michael Coren understand that what he is saying and what the Serbs said are exactly the same thing?

Perhaps Michael Coren can explain why the "West" and men like Michael Coren are putting any Serb on trial for any reason when the Serbs actually did fight exactly that kind of Muslim tyranny?

Personally I think Michael Coren is wrong. The idea that there is a moderate Muslim is hogwash. They all follow the same religion. The Koran gives every Muslim a licence to kill an apostate, an unbeliever, a Christian or a Jew. The Koran makes it a duty to kill the apostate, which is why Muslims are killing what Coren calls "co-religionists" and the Koran calls collaberators. But, regrettably we have a long way to go before the people of the West understand that.

When the "West" is ready to accept that the Serbs were fighting a war of self defence for their freedom from Islam then the "West" will win.

Excellent points regarding the whitewashing of the Bosniak and foreign Muslim atrocities committed against the Bosnian-Serbs who were defending their historical homelands. Pathetic how Clinton/UN/Nato looked buried their heads in remorseless shame. Even more pathetic was their propaganda comapaign of demonization and misinformation. The facts were and are there. They chose to ignore them.

 

[Anbarandy]

ahhh where to even start with this posting, the fact that an article by an extreme social conservative like Coren being posted on an escort board or that absolutely insane statement above.

Try the Serbs or should I say Chetniks to differentiate them from good and decent Serbs were launching a war of genocide against the Bosnian Muslim and Croat populations.

Their idea was a single greater Serbia cleansed of all non Serbs and Serbs who didnt think like they did. 40% of marriages in Bosnia before the war were inter mixed, the second in command of the Bosnian government army Jovan Diviak, was a Serb, there were entire Serb units fighting to defend Sarajevo ( one of the few places on earth where Islam, Christianity and Judaism met and got along fairly well) against the fascists, so please go back to worshipping at the grave of your mass murdering hero Milosevic or get a dose of reality.

Pathetic.

Bosniaks slaughtered their own people in a deeply perverted attempt to draw Nato deeper into the conflict.

Bosniaks and foreign Muslim fighters tortured and beheaded men, women and children in their own campaign of ethnic cleansing.

Give me a break.

I was born there. I lived there. I was there!

Why don't you go down to your local video store in B-H and rent the torture and beheading videos if you think the Bosniaks and foreign Muslims are friggin victims of this conflict.

 

[Anbarandy]

Miloso XXX the line.

His reign was all about ethnic nationalism.
His European counterparts had enough of
fascism. NATO shut him down. He was
past tense in Europe.

A significant portion of B-H is ethnically Serbian and also Croation. It's called defending your historical home.

 

[Anbarandy]

Slobo and the vestages of Tito resonate there.
Though not born there, I'm Slovenian. Please,
no Serbian nationalism served on my plate.
You had your chance and blew it. Get over it.

So basically you are suggesting that we Bosnian-Serbs who have lived on our lands for centuries and centuries be served a cold plate of Bosnian/Muslim quasi-extremist nationalism?

 

[mattd40]

ahhh where to even start with this posting, the fact that an article by an extreme social conservative like Coren being posted on an escort board or that absolutely insane statement above.

Try the Serbs or should I say Chetniks to differentiate them from good and decent Serbs were launching a war of genocide against the Bosnian Muslim and Croat populations.

Their idea was a single greater Serbia cleansed of all non Serbs and Serbs who didnt think like they did. 40% of marriages in Bosnia before the war were inter mixed, the second in command of the Bosnian government army Jovan Diviak, was a Serb, there were entire Serb units fighting to defend Sarajevo ( one of the few places on earth where Islam, Christianity and Judaism met and got along fairly well) against the fascists, so please go back to worshipping at the grave of your mass murdering hero Milosevic or get a dose of reality.

How do you know so much about the Balkans?

 

[assoholic]

...Michael Coren is a perfect example of the real problemns we face, a Christian zealot wanting to start a war against Muslim Zealots.
He is constantly moaning how Christianity is under attack by horrible secularists out to destroy his religion.
He endorses using Nuclear weapons on Iran.
He is a nut.

I agree as usual with 90 % of what you said DQ , except the part about
the US wanting replace Dictators with Democarcies in the ME. That is a alot of rubbish, the US got rid of Saddam because like Noriega they were not following orders good enough.

Iraq is about Oil, the Isrealis and the Jewish lobby are of course trying to
influence events to their point of view, but it is not about Isreal per se. Saddam was an irritant to Isreal not a threat.

However the Isrealis live in a dangerous neighbourhood and they out of necessity are looking 50 years down the line.
Demographics and economics are against Isreal. For Isreal to continue to exist as a Jewish state some very drastic actions may have to be undertaken.
They are no doubt hoping the US sets the example which they then can follow. What I am babbling about of course is the Samson option.

 

[assoholic]

..Micheal Coren may be one of the first, but he is not the only voice out there.
How tempting, to not have to risk the lives of any troops, to simply push a button. My fear is once it is pushed it will be used again and again.
Today it's maybe taking out the Iranian nuclear sites, tomorrow who knows.

And lets not forget the nasty fall out problemn. Which China, Russia and India may not be willing to let bygones be bygones if the wind shifts in the wrong direction.

 

[oldjones]

So basically you are suggesting that we Bosnian-Serbs who have lived on our lands for centuries and centuries be served a cold plate of Bosnian/Muslim quasi-extremist nationalism?

Yup. You dish the same stuff out; you'll have to eat it. Instead of that wretched cold crap you've been getting and giving for centuries, why not be the first generation to invite the neighbours in for a really nice hot supper and learn to get along? It is the only way. There's no future in a fight to the death.

 

[scouser1]

How do you know so much about the Balkans?

you read, listen and talk to different people you learn alot of things. As for Serbs living in that land for centuries give me a freaking break, the vast majority of Serbs who lived there moved there after WII an example was Radovan Karadzic a country hill billy from Montenergo whose family moved there when the communist government offered free apartments in Sarajevo.

 

[scouser1]

the reason that Croatia is good and Serbia was bad, was that the Serbs decided to start a war to eliminate the Croats who were fighting a war of survival.

Slobo decided to kick the can before he was convicted of crimes against humanity.

 

[basketcase]

Scouser and his usual one sided opinion. There were some pretty nasty Croats out there too.

 

[mattd40]

Scouser and his usual one sided opinion. There were some pretty nasty Croats out there too.

Unless you were there during the war to see what Serbs were doing, don't talk. The Croats did committ crimes but what the serbs did was far worse.

 

[basketcase]

Because you say so?

 

[oldjones]

Unless you were there during the war to see what Serbs were doing, don't talk. The Croats did committ crimes but what the serbs did was far worse.

Ah the "But Johnny was even badder than me!" defence.

NewsFlash: Has never worked, never will. Because—as most folks Moms managed to get across—it doesn't change the fact that you were bad. Gotta stop.

What did the Serbs or the Croats, or the Kosovars, or [insert long list of ethnic components of former Yugoslavia happy to seize any advantage for themselves without regard to its cost for others] ever do that was 'good' and aimed at making a better existence for their neighbours and themselves?

 

[Anbarandy]

Yup. You dish the same stuff out; you'll have to eat it. Instead of that wretched cold crap you've been getting and giving for centuries, why not be the first generation to invite the neighbours in for a really nice hot supper and learn to get along? It is the only way. There's no future in a fight to the death.

You make me laugh at your pathetically patented 'generic'(ie: clueless) response. I was born there, I lived there, I ahve family there, I WAS THERE. You old man are clueless.

 

[Anbarandy]

you read, listen and talk to different people you learn alot of things. As for Serbs living in that land for centuries give me a freaking break, the vast majority of Serbs who lived there moved there after WII an example was Radovan Karadzic a country hill billy from Montenergo whose family moved there when the communist government offered free apartments in Sarajevo.

You are born there. You have lived there. You have family and friends there. YOU WERE THERE.

Sure trumps any of the nonsense you have spouted based upon your "reading, listening and talking" about it on an escort board.

 

[Anbarandy]

the reason that Croatia is good and Serbia was bad, was that the Serbs decided to start a war to eliminate the Croats who were fighting a war of survival.

Slobo decided to kick the can before he was convicted of crimes against humanity.

More evidence of your lack of knowledge.