The Unasked Question about Iraq

wollensak

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It seems obvious to me, at least, that the US will have to re-implement the militray draft in order to meet manpower requirements in Iraq.

Remember when victory was declared, and all the neo-cons on this board were asking "Who's Next?"

There was a lively debate - should it be Iran or Syria?

Assuming a Bush victory, broadening the war to include other members of the "axis of evil" will definitely require a draft.

I guess now is not the time to raise such a question. Let's wait till Bush is safely re-installed in the Oval Office.
 

papasmerf

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Please keep in mind. It takes an act of Congress to reinstate the draft. No sitting President can order it, Thus far the only Bill introduced has been introduced by a democrat, the Bill was defeated with only 2 yea votes. Interestinly enough the Bills sponser votes aginst it. And the 2 yea votes was by democrats.
 

assoholic

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..I think the posters point and Dons however was because of necessity, if the Troop commitments are not reduced they will have to re-instate the Draft, whether Democrats or Republicans win. The Guard especially is haveing enlistment problemns.
 

ocean976124

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The draft is not an option. Most who believe the US needs more troops only think about 2 more battalions are needed. To reinstate the draft for 2 battalions would be insane...

The draft resolutions in Congress that were heavily defeated would have required both males and females between the ages of 18 and 26 to complete two years of military service. I think those 2 years could have been served at the discretion of the person. Thus, one could go to college for 4 years and then serve in the US military for 2 or go in the military directly out of High School. Basically, you were given 8 years to enter.
 

BiggieE

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Now Don, I really wish I knew where you hear some of this stuff,because we had an article in the local paper talking up the fact that US Military personel are RE-enlisting in almost record numbers, and that all 4 branches of the Armed sevices are having to put names on waiting lists because recuitment rosters are full....
 

Manji

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I don't think the draft is gonna happen anytime soon.
I think there would be widespread public outcry and a huge political backlash against any politician who would support the draft.
I guess the upside would be that voter apathy would drop dramatically as American citizens would scramble to vote against the draft.

If anything, the US military will probably recruit more agressively, give bigger bonuses to re-enlistments and raise its pay to specialized and needed positions.
The military wants a professional and highly motivated army; the draft would definitly push the US armed forces in the other direction.

I think also a re-organaztion would probably be in order. Taking troops out of South Korea (which they have started doing) and other nations that don't really require an American presence.
Also read that the Pentagon is downsizing the Navy and hoping that the naval personnel will transfer to the army.
 

Cinema Face

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wollensak said:
It seems obvious to me, at least, that the US will have to re-implement the militray draft in order to meet manpower requirements in Iraq.

Remember when victory was declared, and all the neo-cons on this board were asking "Who's Next?"

There was a lively debate - should it be Iran or Syria?
I doubt it. The talk of the draft is merely Democrat FUD. I agree with Manji that there would be a public outrage. The military hates the draft because of the quality of recruits are so low, people who don't want to be there are forced to.

Who's next? IMHO it will be Iran and N. Korea. It will happen over the next couple of years. It will happen regardless of the outcome of the next presidential election.

All the stuff in the news lately makes me suspect that they're priming us for something that will happen soon. I suspect a confrontation soon. By confrontation, I don't mean militarily. Most likely, Iran will have a coup to overthrow the theocracy with the US pulling the strings in the background.
N. Korea will be an economic confrontation. N. Korea is a communist military state which can't support itself without foreign aid. Stop the aid from China, US and S. Korea and it will fall.
 

Scarey

Well-known member
I'm not sure how effective a draft in the US would be today........this generation is very different from the one enlisted for vietnam....This is very much a ME generation.......kids who look out for themselves and for the most part not sure how trainable they would be.Again i may be wrong....
 

assoholic

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Hack's Target
Uncle Sam Will Soon Want Your Kids
By David H. Hackworth

Recently, when John Kerry brought up the possibility of a return to the draft, SecDef Donald Rumsfeld was quick to respond that Kerry was full of it.
But my take is that Kerry is right on the mark. Not only because Rummy has been flat wrong on every major military call regarding Iraq, but because this is a war that won’t be won by smart weapons or the sledgehammer firepower we see every night on the tube.
Right now – with both our regular and Reserve soldiers stretched beyond the breaking point – our all-volunteer force is tapping out. If our overseas troop commitments continue at the present rate or climb higher, there won’t be enough Army and Marine grunts to do the job. And thin, overworked units, from Special Forces teams to infantry battalions, lose fights.
Clearly, this war against worldwide, hardcore Islamic believers will be a massive military marathon, the longest and most far-flung in our country’s history. By Christmas, more troops could be needed not only in Iraq and Afghanistan, but wherever the radical Islamic movement is growing stronger, from the Horn of Africa to Morocco, Kenya, Somalia, Yemen and across Europe – remember Spain?! – to Asia.
Accordingly, we need to bring our ground-fighting and support units to about the strength they were before the Soviet Union imploded, especially since the proper ratio of counterinsurgent-to-insurgent in places like the Middle East should be around 15 to 1. You don’t have to be a Ph.D. in military personnel to conclude we need more boots on the ground.
Most of our warriors – who are mainly from blue-collar families from Small Town, USA – have few political connections and few conduits though which they can effectively sound off. So when they get screwed over by a desperate Pentagon’s makeshift policies – such as the “Stop Loss� program that’s holding over large numbers of our servicemen and -women well beyond their contractually agreed-upon terms of enlistment, or the widespread calling up of out-of-shape, ill-trained citizen soldiers from the Individual Ready Reserve – these “volunteers� salute, suck it up and lay their lives on the line.
But like elephants, they won’t forget that they are “backdoor draftees,� as Kerry and John McCain call them. Which means that when their hitches are up, they won’t be rushing to re-enlist. And they’re also warning their younger brothers, sisters and pals to stay away from recruiting stations.
Although Pentagon puff artists insist they’re making quota, recruiters are already saying it would be easier to find $100 bills on the sidewalk outside a homeless shelter than fill their enlistment quotas, even with the huge bonuses now being paid.
So the draft – which will include both boys and girls this time around – is a no-brainer in ‘05 and ‘06.
Oh sure, the Pentagon suits will fight it. Volunteers tend to go with the flow and seldom blow the whistle on military stupidity, flawed tactics and self-serving leadership. And draftees don’t hesitate to make waves and tell the truth. Not to mention influential citizens with draft-age kids who’ll soon be demanding an answer to the same type of hard question their moms and dads shouted during the Vietnam War: “Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?�
Rumsfeld, in fact, has already kicked off the anti-draft campaign by denigrating the draftees who fought in Vietnam. The SecDef, who prefers sycophants who don’t ask questions, recently stated that Vietnam-era draftees added “No value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services ... because ... it took an enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone.�
Wrong once again. I led draftees for almost four years in Vietnam and for several years during the Korean War. If well-led, there are no finer soldiers. Ask the Nazis, the Japanese and the Reds in Korea and in Vietnam, where “no value� draftees cleaned their clocks in fight after fight.
Israel, a country that has lived under the barrel of the Islamic terrorist gun for decades, has the most combat-experienced counterinsurgent force in the world – and boy and girl draftees are its major resource.
Count on it. We will follow their lead.
 

banshie

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If Bush is reelected there will be a draft IMO. They might not need it for Iraq, but they certainly will for their plans for Iran, North Korea etc. etc.
 

danmand

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Nov 28, 2003
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Any thoughts on the interesting aspect of a draft in our time, namely that it will have to include both men and women? Are we going to see the Bush twins off to Iran?
 
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langeweile

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Sep 21, 2004
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Winston said:
You have missed the entire point of the Democrats introducing the bill. They did so as a protest that the US army is currently made up of mostly poor folk, and the demographics do not reflect the demographics of America. The bill was a protesting Bush's use of the poor to feed the wealthy.

The military does not want a draft.
Am I missing something here?

i thought the USAarmy was a volunteer army? Why do the demographics even matter?
Next thing I know somebody is going to tell me that W has forced all the poor people in to the army...

My mom was right..smoking pot does ruin your braincells.
 

BiggieE

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Last I has seen in local papers....Military recruiters are turning people away, because they have TOO MANY new recruits to train...They are pre signing kids in High schools to start basic/boot camp next summer because they don't have the space right now...Damn, I wish I could find that link...
 

Manji

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Jan 17, 2004
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I think that it is somewhat shameful that many Americans of poor and/or ethnic backgrounds are dying for America and its "Freedom" in Iraq.
Especially when I watch a news account of soldiers fighting and dying in Iraq and then I flip a channel and I see some rich celebrity fuck bragging on how he just souped up his SUV with silver rims.

It is like some people in the States do not realize (or care) that there a American citizens risking their lives half for them half a world away.

But it is a volunteer army and the ones who are going to volunteer are usually going to come from those backgrounds.

I think what the United States government should do is take better care of their soldiers.
Increase their salaries. Better pensions.
Take care of their families. Better housing, daycare. etc...
Increasing funding to Veterans. The US govt. should be embarrassed on how it forgets about it veterans. Chances are that this next generation of veterans will be forgotten as well.

If there is no money for that, simple, tax the rich!
The poor will pay with their blood and the rich will pay with their wallets.
 

assoholic

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..the article I posted was written by David Hackworth, the most decorated soldier in US history, so his opinion is alot more insightful then our various right wing posters here, who just tow the same o'l line, everythings great , everythings wonderful.
 

BiggieE

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Ok Don...

That makes more sense...The article i read made no mention of National Guard or reserve units..Seems like once soldiers get done with their ANG obligations, they just are'nt re-enlisting...Can't speak about the lifers, other than that, since they have done thier times, Good Luck to them...
 

danmand

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President Bush just stated categorically, that there will not be a draft. In my estimation, that is a clear signal of a draft coming, as soon as the election is over.
 
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