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Thomas Walkom (Star) - Forget the Moscow conspiracy theory. Donald Trump won

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Nah, he's wrong.
Similarly, the most damaging event in the Clinton campaign — the announcement that her emails were once again under investigation — was not orchestrated by a Russian intelligence agency. It was orchestrated by an American intelligence agency, the FBI.
The FBI was investigating her use of a private server because it was hacked and left state secrets insecure.
The Russians hacked it, so the investigation that Walkom blames for Clinton's failure is the result of Russian actions.
 

KBear

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Aug 17, 2001
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Nah, he's wrong.


The FBI was investigating her use of a private server because it was hacked and left state secrets insecure.
The Russians hacked it, so the investigation that Walkom blames for Clinton's failure is the result of Russian actions.
Clinton's failure was using an unsecured private home brew server that could be easily hacked. Note that the feds were on to Clinton before the hacks were revealed.

Timeline of Hillary Clinton's email scandal http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/politics/hillary-clinton-email-timeline/

December 13, 2012 -- Congressional investigators ask Clinton if she uses a personal email.
March 20, 2013 -- Gawker reports that based on emails retrieved by a Romanian hacker called "Guccifer," Clinton used the "clintonemail.com" domain name in emails to advisers and friends.
 

Frankfooter

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Clinton's failure was using an unsecured private home brew server that could be easily hacked. Note that the feds were on to Clinton before the hacks were revealed.

Timeline of Hillary Clinton's email scandal http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/politics/hillary-clinton-email-timeline/

December 13, 2012 -- Congressional investigators ask Clinton if she uses a personal email.
March 20, 2013 -- Gawker reports that based on emails retrieved by a Romanian hacker called "Guccifer," Clinton used the "clintonemail.com" domain name in emails to advisers and friends.
Correct, the email scandal started with claims she was using insecure personal email.
According to the FBI and CIA, the state department and many other US departments were also targeted and hacked, but Clinton was targeted for political gain.
And that hacking came from Russia.
 

KBear

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... but Clinton was targeted for political gain.
And that hacking came from Russia.
The emails on Clinton's email server, if hacked, were never released by the hackers. So, you cant say Clinton or Clinton's emails were targeted at all for political gain or anything else by the Russians.

Clinton's emails, the ones she did not delete from her home brew server were released by the US government, not Russian hackers.

We are still waiting to see the emails Clinton deleted off her server. Maybe the Russian hackers have them but have net released them yet?
 

fuji

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Clinton's failure was using an unsecured private home brew server that could be easily hacked. Note that the feds were on to Clinton before the hacks were revealed.

Timeline of Hillary Clinton's email scandal http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/politics/hillary-clinton-email-timeline/

December 13, 2012 -- Congressional investigators ask Clinton if she uses a personal email.
March 20, 2013 -- Gawker reports that based on emails retrieved by a Romanian hacker called "Guccifer," Clinton used the "clintonemail.com" domain name in emails to advisers and friends.
The DNC hack had nothing to do with using an inappropriate server.
 

onthebottom

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Russia and the US spy. I'm hoping this isn't news to anyone.

Wikileaks has said they didn't get the information they released from Russia.

I personally think (just my opinion) that Russia focused more on the DNC because they thought they were going to be facing off against Hillary and wanted the know what the players really thought. Much like the US spyed against Merkel, intelligence gathering not manipulation.
 

fuji

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Russia and the US spy. I'm hoping this isn't news to anyone.

Wikileaks has said they didn't get the information they released from Russia.

I personally think (just my opinion) that Russia focused more on the DNC because they thought they were going to be facing off against Hillary and wanted the know what the players really thought. Much like the US spyed against Merkel, intelligence gathering not manipulation.
At least you are personally admitting Russian interference.
 
S

**Sophie**

Podesta lost his cell phone in a cab, and also got sucked into a phishing email to change his password and he did. All that information is avail via WikiLeaks. Those are just 2 examples of ways someone could have had access to those emails.
 

fuji

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Podesta lost his cell phone in a cab, and also got sucked into a phishing email to change his password and he did. All that information is avail via WikiLeaks. Those are just 2 examples of ways someone could have had access to those emails.
We know that the Russians hacked the DNC.
 

onthebottom

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At least you are personally admitting Russian interference.
Not interference, just spying. Happens all the time. Was the US interfering with Germany when we spied? Of course not.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Hardly a news item.He also points out what The Don still hasn't grasped: The win was entirely due to the "idiosyncratic method of electing presidents" the US uses, and it was a narrow College win at that. Nothing Walkom said (or any of the Trump claque — or even the Don Himself — has said) can alter the fact that Clinton had more US voters who chose her than those who picked Trump, just as he piled up more Electors compelled to vote for him no matter how the people voted.

Trump was one of the very few to lose the popular vote for Presaident but still get elected (although that won't happen until next Tuesday). High time his apologists started looking for reasons that justify the Electors' forced votes, instead of re-fighting old battles already decided.

2020's coming soon, and The Don's starting 3,000,000 votes behind.
 

Bud Plug

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Aug 17, 2001
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Hardly a news item.He also points out what The Don still hasn't grasped: The win was entirely due to the "idiosyncratic method of electing presidents" the US uses, and it was a narrow College win at that. Nothing Walkom said (or any of the Trump claque — or even the Don Himself — has said) can alter the fact that Clinton had more US voters who chose her than those who picked Trump, just as he piled up more Electors compelled to vote for him no matter how the people voted.
Yes, electors in Texas are compelled to represent the results of the Texas vote irrespective of how the people voted in California. An idiosyncratic system by Canadian standards. Canada's system is, no doubt, idiosyncratic by American standards. Once again, the inherent political arrogance of Canada in fine form.

Trump was one of the very few to lose the popular vote for Presaident but still get elected (although that won't happen until next Tuesday). High time his apologists started looking for reasons that justify the Electors' forced votes, instead of re-fighting old battles already decided.

2020's coming soon, and The Don's starting 3,000,000 votes behind.
a) No one is apologizing for Trump winning. Whatever gave you that idea?

b) No one has to justify continuing the current US constitution, least of all those whose candidate won. The people who advocate electing the president based on the national vote bear the onus of convincing politicians to amend the constitution. So far, nothing really convincing on that account that I've read. Different results, different problems - not BETTER results on an indisputable analysis.

c) I'm sure Trump will accept the same numbers, with the same results in 2020, including losing the popular vote by 3 mil. There will be no change to the constitution on this point by 2020 (if ever).
 

danmand

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Nov 28, 2003
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Yes, electors in Texas are compelled to represent the results of the Texas vote irrespective of how the people voted in California. An idiosyncratic system by Canadian standards. Canada's system is, no doubt, idiosyncratic by American standards. Once again, the inherent political arrogance of Canada in fine form.
The electoral system in Canada is a disgrace. Prime ministers generally take office with a majority based upon less than 30% of eligible voters.

Canadians believe it is the best system ever invented.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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First off, I don't think it is worth the constitutional / world crisis that would result from pulling the presidency away from Donald Trump.

Second of all, Clinton has lost the recounts in both Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. The people have spoken and they want Donald Trump to be their president. Russian help or not.

Third, well, there is no third. That's it that's all. Trump won. That's democracy. The thing about the US constitution, it's set up to limit power being too vested in one individual or governing body. The president (contrary to what most people think) doesn't make the laws. Laws are made by congress (the house and the senate) and at most, the president can veto them. The Supreme Court will rule on the constitutionality of it all. So there are limits to everyone's power.

Anyway, Clinton lost the election because she was a lousy candidate. She stood for nothing other than the old status quo. Clinton was the virtual personification of "the system". She was far more at ease at Goldman Sachs and $250,000.00 per ticket fund raisers than breaking bread with the common man. Her husband could connect with the working stiff back in 92'ish, but even he got perverted by the private jet / DAVOS crowd. Hillary simply had 0 appeal to the working man. People voted for Trump because they figured that over the years they had elected leaders from both sides of the isles and their lives weren't getting any better, so really, why not. As Trump himself said, "what do you have to lose?" It was a great big "fuck you" to the entire system.

Now all that being said, I think Trump is going to prove himself to be a terrible president. Just look at the assholes he's appointing to his cabinet. All old white guys and billionaires.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Hardly a news item.He also points out what The Don still hasn't grasped: The win was entirely due to the "idiosyncratic method of electing presidents" the US uses, and it was a narrow College win at that. Nothing Walkom said (or any of the Trump claque — or even the Don Himself — has said) can alter the fact that Clinton had more US voters who chose her than those who picked Trump, just as he piled up more Electors compelled to vote for him no matter how the people voted.

Trump was one of the very few to lose the popular vote for Presaident but still get elected (although that won't happen until next Tuesday). High time his apologists started looking for reasons that justify the Electors' forced votes, instead of re-fighting old battles already decided.

2020's coming soon, and The Don's starting 3,000,000 votes behind.
Wrong thread.

This thread is about the Russian conspiracy nonsense and the fake news that a do-over is required. The debate about the merits of the electoral college system is an entirely different matter.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
172
63
The DNC hack had nothing to do with using an inappropriate server.
In fairness, it was Frankfooter who tried to pin the private server issue on the Russians.

If I'm following the timeline correctly, it was the Benghazi debacle that led to the revelations about the private server.
 
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