Toronto homeowner ready to 'fight tooth and nail' against expropriation for Ontario Line

canada-man

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TORONTO -- Metrolinx is reassuring dozens of Toronto homeowners after letters were sent out raising fears about expropriation to make way for the Ontario Line— a subway project proposed to run between Ontario Place and the Ontario Science Centre.

East York resident Ramin Faraji is one of the property owners who received the letter. He bought a century-old home on Hopedale Avenue last year. His backyard borders a ravine and has a large oak tree he said is 300 years old.

“[It’s] everything I’ve got. Plus some. Everything I have, everything I could borrow to have this, and I’m going to fight tooth and nail to keep this,” Faraji told CTV News Toronto Thursday.


The letter states Metrolinx is contacting owners early in the process to ensure they are aware of the project and implications it may have on their property.

Some sections of the Ontario Line will be tunnelled, others are above ground.

“You just can’t build those lines without needing property and so it does have an impact,” said spokesperson Anne Marie Aikins.

“So you may see construction. We may need a piece of your property, we may need your property, but we don’t know yet. We’re still assessing.”

Aikins said only about a handful of properties could be expropriated.

Karen Urban is with Pape Area Concerned Citizens for Transit, a local advocacy group, which supports the need for more transit.

Urban however said she’s hearing from homeowners who are not satisfied with the way they learned about the project coming to the neighbourhood.

“Show us the options prior to pre-determining a route. And that is what we are talking about,” said Urban.


She said while this instance in the Hopedale Avenue area is a very personal one right now, the overall messaging is not ‘don’t take our houses’.

She said people in the area hoped to see more alternatives before receiving Metrolinx’s letter.

The concerns come as Toronto-Danforth City Councllior Paula Fletcher and Toronto-Danforth MPP Peter Tabuns hosted a virtual meeting Thursday night about the updates on the Ontario Line.

The politicians were joined by three community groups — Save Jimmie Simpson, East End Transit Alliance and the Lakeshore East Community Advisory Committee.

 

RichardG2020

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TORONTO -- Metrolinx is reassuring dozens of Toronto homeowners after letters were sent out raising fears about expropriation to make way for the Ontario Line— a subway project proposed to run between Ontario Place and the Ontario Science Centre.

East York resident Ramin Faraji is one of the property owners who received the letter. He bought a century-old home on Hopedale Avenue last year. His backyard borders a ravine and has a large oak tree he said is 300 years old.

“[It’s] everything I’ve got. Plus some. Everything I have, everything I could borrow to have this, and I’m going to fight tooth and nail to keep this,” Faraji told CTV News Toronto Thursday.


The letter states Metrolinx is contacting owners early in the process to ensure they are aware of the project and implications it may have on their property.

Some sections of the Ontario Line will be tunnelled, others are above ground.

“You just can’t build those lines without needing property and so it does have an impact,” said spokesperson Anne Marie Aikins.

“So you may see construction. We may need a piece of your property, we may need your property, but we don’t know yet. We’re still assessing.”

Aikins said only about a handful of properties could be expropriated.

Karen Urban is with Pape Area Concerned Citizens for Transit, a local advocacy group, which supports the need for more transit.

Urban however said she’s hearing from homeowners who are not satisfied with the way they learned about the project coming to the neighbourhood.

“Show us the options prior to pre-determining a route. And that is what we are talking about,” said Urban.


She said while this instance in the Hopedale Avenue area is a very personal one right now, the overall messaging is not ‘don’t take our houses’.

She said people in the area hoped to see more alternatives before receiving Metrolinx’s letter.

The concerns come as Toronto-Danforth City Councllior Paula Fletcher and Toronto-Danforth MPP Peter Tabuns hosted a virtual meeting Thursday night about the updates on the Ontario Line.

The politicians were joined by three community groups — Save Jimmie Simpson, East End Transit Alliance and the Lakeshore East Community Advisory Committee.

Expropriation is for the greater good. As long as the homeowner gets market value, plus 10 or 15% bonusing to be fair.

There’s a house on Hopedale listed at $1.195 million, which would mean the homeowner of the expropriated house would get $1.3 to $1.4 million.
 
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Jenesis

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Expropriation is for the greater good. As long as the homeowner gets market value, plus 10 or 15% bonusing to be fair.

There’s a house on Hopedale listed at $1.195 million, which would mean the homeowner of the expropriated house would get $1.3 to $1.4 million.
A house is something that can be very personal to a person. Something that could be generationally owned and in the family for years.

I don’t care the upsell on price. Some people just can’t move and certainly should not be shoved out of their homes.

Better planning can be done.
 
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Archer2012

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Democracy at its best - you buy land (which is not normally made anymore) and the Gov can say yup your home - we are taking it - here is your $$ see ya. In reality someone’s HOME is more than just an abode - it’s their safe place / relax place / it’s often most importantly FAMILY MEMORIES - you can’t or should not just be able to $$ that. People who are being displaced should be able to find another place where they can recreate the feeling they had and the Gov should pay the price. What has really changed from give us your land for some shiny beads? WTF?
 
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fall

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Expropriation is for the greater good. As long as the homeowner gets market value, plus 10 or 15% bonusing to be fair.

There’s a house on Hopedale listed at $1.195 million, which would mean the homeowner of the expropriated house would get $1.3 to $1.4 million.
10 or 15%. Are you kidding??? It is huge inconvenience to move, have a temporary house, search for a new house, move again, etc. You may not even be able to find a comparable house that you like in the area you want. IMHO, 50% on top of the "market" value of the house (to guarantee you can find a comparable house you like without any hassle) + $100K moving and temporary hosing expense + $250K to compensate for inconvenience.
 

JackBurton

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Blah blah blah.

this line is never getting built, it’s all just empty air promises on the part of politicians.
They have no vested interest in building proper subways for the city. Toronto is already a cash cow for the country, the less they need to invest in it, they will.
 
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Insidious Von

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I agree with Jack, this project is a white elephant.

It would a made sense in the 70's or 80's, now it's just a line going from nowhere to nowhere. Look at the damage the Smart-track across Eglinton is doing. Yitz closed for good last December after being in business for 47 years. And it's going to cost a fortune to maintain, they haven't even fixed the bugs on the Vaughan extension yet. I doubt the Ford government wants to commit political suicide.
 
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RichardG2020

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10 or 15%. Are you kidding??? It is huge inconvenience to move, have a temporary house, search for a new house, move again, etc. You may not even be able to find a comparable house that you like in the area you want. IMHO, 50% on top of the "market" value of the house (to guarantee you can find a comparable house you like without any hassle) + $100K moving and temporary hosing expense + $250K to compensate for inconvenience.
If you get market value +, it means that you will be able to buy a comparable house in the broader area.

$350K for housing costs and inconvenience is exorbitant on a $1.195M house.

Remember, Metrolinx isn’t a private developer that’s profiting on this. It is a Provincial agency that is funded by taxpayers. No way, would a 30% premium ever be approved.
 

escortsxxx

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Expropriation is for the greater good. As long as the homeowner gets market value, plus 10 or 15% bonusing to be fair.

There’s a house on Hopedale listed at $1.195 million, which would mean the homeowner of the expropriated house would get $1.3 to $1.4 million.
I disagree. Lets assume your work is nearby, as are family and friends. If you don't want to move, your property o you is far more valuable than market value. I put it at value +100% as a base line. When companies fun a move some pay rental for a year + property value + all incidental costs + extra on top of that. When my work was a 5 minute walk compared to a two hour compute that was hugely valuable to me.
 

escortsxxx

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I agree with Jack, this project is a white elephant.

It would a made sense in the 70's or 80's, now it's just a line going from nowhere to nowhere. Look at the damage the Smart-track across Eglinton is doing. Yitz closed for good last December after being in business for 47 years. And it's going to cost a fortune to maintain, they haven't even fixed the bugs on the Vaughan extension yet. I doubt the Ford government wants to commit political suicide.

We need a subway commison like New york that builds a stop more or less every year. But Toronto is massively underfunded, as said, cash cow.
The only soltion really is to seprate from Ontario and let Ontario and Peel and pickering etc sink into the mud. Toronto has to become a city state/province.



Random
 
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RichardG2020

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I disagree. Lets assume your work is nearby, as are family and friends. If you don't want to move, your property o you is far more valuable than market value. I put it at value +100% as a base line. When companies fun a move some pay rental for a year + property value + all incidental costs + extra on top of that. When my work was a 5 minute walk compared to a two hour compute that was hugely valuable to me.
It really doesn’t matter what you or I think is fair compensation, because that’s not how expropriation works. Federal, provincial, or municipal government can expro land as long as it is being used for the greater public good or benefit.

In fact, a homeowner being forced to sell is entitled to market value, plus 15%.

Here’s an interesting read:

https://globalnews.ca/news/1079558/fact-file-expropriation-rights-in-canada/
 

escortsxxx

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It really doesn’t matter what you or I think is fair compensation, because that’s not how expropriation works. Federal, provincial, or municipal government can expro land as long as it is being used for the greater public good or benefit.

In fact, a homeowner being forced to sell is entitled to market value, plus 15%.

Here’s an interesting read:

https://globalnews.ca/news/1079558/fact-file-expropriation-rights-in-canada/
i was commenting on what WAS fair, vs. what is.
Likewise getting ticked for parking where there is no parking even if the sign is missing is the rule of the land but not fair. Or if you home is stolen and sold you do not get it back, also the rule of the land. Or if your company goes bellow up emploees get paid almost last and usally not at all - also not fair.

But yes, waht IS vs what is fair are too very different things.
 

CLOUD 500

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Expropriation is for the greater good. As long as the homeowner gets market value, plus 10 or 15% bonusing to be fair.

There’s a house on Hopedale listed at $1.195 million, which would mean the homeowner of the expropriated house would get $1.3 to $1.4 million.
Unfortunately Toronto is over populated and housing prices very high. If you are the lucky ones who moved during the 70's and bought a house in the city when prices were good even if you get the market value to be forced to relocate over one hour away from the city in the suburbs is a big price to pay especially if your work is in downtown. I personally would also fight tooth and nail. If it were a house in the suburbs I would take the money plus the bonus. But having a downtown location is priceless.
 

Insidious Von

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I don't believe Toronto as a City State like Hamburg and Berlin would work unless some of the 905 went along with it.

And Toronto's wealth isn't just going to support Canada, it's also being used to prevent Detroit and Buffalo from turning into economic Black Holes...which Detroit already is. Our money is going into the building of The Gordie Howe Bridge which will revive Detroit's economy. The problem there is The Ambassador Bridge is privately owned, he's been slowing down the project to suit his profits. The bridge would have been completed by next spring if it wasn't for the red tape - now they are looking at 2023 - if they're lucky.

Buffalo is a different matter. The Governors of NYST have been so fixated on GNYC and Long Island, the rest of the State has turned into a dump. Ever been to the Oneida Lake District (near Syracuse), I can't think of a more depressing area. Prisons are a growth industry there with not much else. Quite a few American citizens from there are living and working in Toronto...most of them don't want to go back.

Since Covid - 19 there's been an exodus out of NYC which is a disaster in the making. Governor Cuomo and Mayor De Blasio are at each other's throats. This explains the problem better than I can.

 

shack

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Expropriation is for the greater good.
Can you, or someone else, point out land/homes that were previously expropriated and are now used in a way that most citizens would say justified that expropriation because of the greater good? Just asking out of curiosity.
 

Insidious Von

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Notice how many towns from Lake Oneida District are on the above list. I forgot the area's most famous economic migrant in Toronto.

...it's not Sid.

 
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RichardG2020

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Can you, or someone else, point out land/homes that were previously expropriated and are now used in a way that most citizens would say justified that expropriation because of the greater good? Just asking out of curiosity.
Expropriation has a long history in Canada and was used for nation building - rail expansion, hydro transmission lines etc.

These days, most expros are done for transportation and transit infrastructure expansion. A lot of land was expro’d for the creation of Highway 407. Imagine trying to assemble all of that land from Burlington to Oshawa without expropriation powers - that would have been virtually impossible.

Outside of transportation infrastructure, expro’s are occasionally done for other reasons too. Some lands were expro’d to provide for rental housing, because there was a need for affordable housing. Additionally, lands are expro’d for hospitals.
 
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TeeJay

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Expropriation is for the greater good. As long as the homeowner gets market value, plus 10 or 15% bonusing to be fair.

There’s a house on Hopedale listed at $1.195 million, which would mean the homeowner of the expropriated house would get $1.3 to $1.4 million.
Hardly fair
"Market value" is today
If you plan on living in house 10 to 20 years you are being underpaid (plus potential loss of value of the rest of your property)

We both know city could easily close a road and put subway underneath the road
They just choose not to

We need a subway commison like New york that builds a stop more or less every year. But Toronto is massively underfunded, as said, cash cow.
The only soltion really is to seprate from Ontario and let Ontario and Peel and pickering etc sink into the mud. Toronto has to become a city state/province.
UNDERFUNDED???

Hardly
Try replacing that sentence with MISMANAGED
More Union BS that kills the TTC than anything else

TTC (for 2.5 subways and buses / rail) is 2 Billion per year
NYC is 16 Billion per year for 10 (?) much larger robust subway lines and I would guess 50x as many buses / rail
Who do you think is more efficient?

TTC also has a much higher percentage of government begging compared to NYC who is far more self sufficient on paying customers
(I also question singling out Peel who has a far better system than say North York or Scarborough both of whom fall under the Toronto umbrella)
 
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RichardG2020

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Hardly fair
"Market value" is today
If you plan on living in house 10 to 20 years you are being underpaid (plus potential loss of value of the rest of your property)

We both know city could easily close a road and put subway underneath the road
They just choose not to
Ummm... there’s an expectation that the homeowner would take the proceeds from the market value sale of the expropriated home to buy a new home

It’s identical equity - it’s just being transferred from Home A to Home B.

Home B would similarly appreciate in value over 10 to 20 years as per Home A.
 
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