What have YOU done to lobby against the nordic model?

[fuji]

Filling out the survey isn't enough, it's just the beginning, of course absolutely everyone should be doing this:


http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cons/curr-cours/proscons-conspros/index.html#2014_02_17

But we need more. We need people influencing the Conservative party:

1. Write a letter to Peter MacKay

2. Contact your local Conservative riding association

3.Contact your local MP, incredibly important if they are a Tory

You don't have to identify yourself as a participant in the sex trade. You just have to let them know you think it would be the wrong move. Tie it to a pledge for a donation, get involved.

If you cannot bring yourself to get involved with CPOC, work through the opposition. But DO something.

What are you doing?

 

[IM469]

It is easy to identify the up hill battles the gays must have faced. Yes it is wrong but because of the current social stigma associated with the sex industry, not many want to risk exposure with either family or work.

 

[DB123]

Filling out the survey isn't enough, it's just the beginning, of course absolutely everyone should be doing this:


http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cons/curr-cours/proscons-conspros/index.html#2014_02_17

But we need more. We need people influencing the Conservative party:

1. Write a letter to Peter MacKay

2. Contact your local Conservative riding association

3.Contact your local MP, incredibly important if they are a Tory


You don't have to identify yourself as a participant in the sex trade. You just have to let them know you think it would be the wrong move. Tie it to a pledge for a donation, get involved.

If you cannot bring yourself to get involved with CPOC, work through the opposition. But DO something.

What are you doing?

Can we see a copy of YOUR letter to Peter MacKay?

 

[fuji]

Can we see a copy of YOUR letter to Peter MacKay?

I am writing it now. I won't post it verbatim. It certainly does not identify me as a purchaser of sex but discusses in general why criminalizing sex purchases will be harmful for Canada.

 

[staggerspool]

You know, I think I'll just wait and see what happens. If they propose something especially outlandish, maybe I'll write a letter.

I assume that if the cons really want to go Nordic, that's what they'll do, no matter what I write.

If the cons want to see what the general population thinks, they will do polling and get the answer. Let's see what that is - lots of polling will be done. If the cons are going to go with popular opinion, nothing I write will change that.

I think they'll do one or the other - if they want to stroke the base, Nordic it is. If they want to court the electorate as the election comes up, they'll go with whatever their polls say will satisfy the majority.

I've filled out their survey. If they are taking that seriously, that is the way to make a statement. If they're not taking it seriously, they won't take letters seriously either.

Fuji says he won't identify himself as a purchaser of sex. I gotta think that the person receiving the letter will assume that he is - who else would get that worked up about it? Except maybe a pimp? What that letter will say is "I don't want you to mess with this good thing I have, but I really don't want to put my real self out there to challenge it, but please take me seriously anyway." They'll either file it in the perv file, or the file that gets the form letter saying "thanks for writing, we're gonna do what we want anyway."

I'm not that concerned - my kind of hobbying probably won't be affected either way. And if it is, I'll deal with it.

Fuji seems to want us on his bandwagon - sorry, but he's not the sort of guy I tend to support. For me, it doesn't have to be rough to be fun. In fact, to the contrary. And I can't recall any reviews by this guy, but I seem to remember a lot of bragging about his ability to pull the chicks while keeping his SO in the dark. And, of course, that he understands everything better than everyone else. So he can fight his own battles.

Though if you really feel it, sure, write. But I think it would be more honest and more effective (if anything is going to be effective) if the writer puts their cards on the table. "I am a purchaser of sex services, and this is why I think it should be legal: ..."

The thing that will make a difference, if the Nordic model wins, is the guy who will put his name up in a court fight. That will take getting caught, and then having real courage to go through with it.

Sorry, challenge denied.

 

[staggerspool]

It would be interesting to know how many Tory MPs have the same opinion as this one:

I'm sure some of them do. Some of them would also abolish abortion, some would restrict birth control, etc. Possibly guys like this are being encouraged to go too far, so the Nordic "solution" looks more reasonable.

And of course, some of them are probably also hobbyists.

 

[canada-man]

ttp://www.davidanderson.ca/media_/r...stitution-laws

Quote: "Our Conservative Government continues to see a social need for laws controlling prostitution and its effects on society. If the Nordic model is the best we can do, then I will support it. However, I’m hoping that we will present a comprehensive framework for combatting prostitution.

A more effective approach would be to prohibit prostitution (where both the buying and selling of sex are illegal) while ensuring that prostituted persons are given the opportunity to avoid charges if they participate in an exit program. This would ensure that law enforcement officials have the tools they need to combat prostitution without criminalizing prostituted men and women."

prohibiting prostitution not gonna happen

 

[TeasePlease]

prohibiting prostitution not gonna happen

Why do you say that?

Both the ndp and the Libs have chickened out by dodging an official position. What's to stop the cons from taking a hard stance?

 

[canada-man]

Why do you say that?

Both the ndp and the Libs have chickened out by dodging an official position. What's to stop the cons from taking a hard stance?

the SCC ruling say criminalization put SPs in danger.

 

[Toronto`s Finest]

There is not really much time left. By about MAY the Cons will ram legislation/ law through. Maggies & like organizations best be getting it together to protest in Ottawa , get media attention & TURN UP THE HEAT !!!

 

[canada-man]

do police services across Canada support the nordic model?

 

[canada-man]

he is a former police chief and currently a senator

 

[Fred Zed]

You can also post comments at JusticeCanada FB page

________________________________

here's a link to their FB page...https://www.facebook.com/JusticeCanadaEn

the prostitution consultation announcement if partway down the left hand side of the page. you can comment there, so i did...shocker...if others want to i think it might be another way to get their attention....

love susie

 

[TeasePlease]

the SCC ruling say criminalization put SPs in danger.

It absolutely did not.

 

[canada-man]

It absolutely did not.

Concluding that each of the challenged provisions violates the Charter does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted, as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes.

http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/13389/index.do

 

[fuji]

You know, I think I'll just wait and see what happens. If they propose something especially outlandish, maybe I'll write a letter.

Then you will deserve what you get, like people who don't vote and then bitch about the government. The best time to influence the outcome is now, before any official position has been announced, while they openly say they are consulting the public. Once they announce their intention it will take an electoral defeat to stop it, because parties hate being accused of flip flopping.

But right now they can change the policy, or water it down, without looking bad. The time is now, ESPECIALLY if you are a conservative voter. They really might listen.

Fuji says he won't identify himself as a purchaser of sex. I gotta think that the person receiving the letter will assume that he is - who else would get that worked up about it?

There's no risk. Lots of people have an opinion, and no political party is going to go attack regular voters who took the time to write a letter. Really they will just count how many letters they got and give the minister a report breaking down by category how many people wrote.

Letter writing DOES matter more than polls, because it signifies political intent and a willingness to act. Polls count people who won't bother voting or for whom other issues will swing their vote. Letter writing gives a sense of how many votes might really swing over an issue.

But I think it would be more honest and more effective (if anything is going to be effective) if the writer puts their cards on the table. "I am a purchaser of sex services, and this is why I think it should be legal: ..."

Sure, that would be a LOT more effective. For me, and I assume for most people, I am not willing to take on the personal cost of doing that, but kudos to anyone who will.

I am willing to write a few "third person" letters stating an opinion, it carries no risk and could help.

 

[poker]

based on what I've seen already, the only losers here are going to be be actual prostitutes. Typically, prostitution is a transaction between a client and a prostitute. They both get something out of it.... However, legalizing the industry kind of turns it into a male controlled thing. Men, get together and create an environment, or culture where they control and profit from the transactions. Look at the Bunny Ranch in Vegas.... only guy making real money there is the owner. The girls are all hot, but they are all disposable.

Toronto strip club owners invited city councilor Mammoliti to a meeting in N-O-T-L to discuss how they could make Toronto strip clubs one stop shopping. If this becomes legal....... and it just might, rates for clients go up, and actual money the girls are earning will go down. Dramatically. Profits for the men running the clubs and brothels will be very good. And yes.... the economy is ####, and if it becomes legal, there will be no shortage of girls willing (or needing) to give it a go.

I know the thought of running an incall worry free sounds enticing as it would be risk free..... I think the competition many girls will encounter from organized agencies and clubs and the other indies will interesting. It would not surprise me if a lot money from outside the region start setting up base here also.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/11...of-strip-clubs

I don't see any girls getting rich of this.... I see a lot men getting rich. The planning has already begun.

my 2 cents.


Cheers!

 

[fuji]

If you don't do something that will absolutely have no effect on the outcome you deserve what you get and shouldn't bitch. For realz?

How do you know it won't make a difference?

For sure doing nothing won't make a difference. Posting proof to one another here on terb won't make a difference. Telling each other how wrong the law would be won't matter. Contacting the conservative party and telling them about these concerns might actually change something.

 

[MattRoxx]

You know, I think I'll just wait and see what happens. If they propose something especially outlandish, maybe I'll write a letter.
...
Fuji says he won't identify himself as a purchaser of sex. I gotta think that the person receiving the letter will assume that he is - who else would get that worked up about it? Except maybe a pimp? What that letter will say is "I don't want you to mess with this good thing I have, but I really don't want to put my real self out there to challenge it, but please take me seriously anyway." They'll either file it in the perv file, or the file that gets the form letter saying "thanks for writing, we're gonna do what we want anyway."

This is such a cowardly way to go through life.
You don't have to be gay to favour the right for gays to marry. You don't have to be a drug addict to think the government should legalize cannabis use and regulate it similar to alcohol and tobacco. You don't need to be a woman to think a woman has a right to determine what she does with her body, whether referring to abortion or sex work.
And you don't need to be a john to argue that the government has no right nor authority to legislate on what are acceptable and unacceptable activities taking place between consenting adults.

 

[TeasePlease]

Concluding that each of the challenged provisions violates the Charter does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted, as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes.

http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/13389/index.do

Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question.

The SCC concluded that criminalization of specific aspects of prostitution, which was and is not an illegal activity, puts prostitutes in danger.

The SCC did not say that criminalization of prostitution would put girls in danger. Indeed, the excerpt which you chose to quote acknowledges that Parliament is nevertheless entitled to place restrictions on prostitution.

Keep in mind also that the lower court in Ontario recently rejected a Charter challenge on the right to practice a profession. There is no such right. Governments are free to impose such regulations and restrictions on professions as is necessary for the protection of the public (I would argue that this is an obligation, not an option, of the government).



Back to the topic, Fuji is right. The government will pander to the so-called "moral majority" unless it hears from a substantial portion of its constituents on the alternative.

I have already written in to the PM, AG and Public Safety. The key points, IMO are:

1. Prohibiting prostitution, including adoption of the Nordic Model, is taking a blunt instrument to the problem. It will be far more damaging than good because the issues are more nuanced that a simple value judgment on morality. The reality is that prostitution is an industry with historical, practical and financial significance to the Canadian economy. Shutting it down would create more problems, including organized criminal activity and even greater risks to the safety of women.

2. The fact that many/most women in the sex trade are voluntary participants cannot be ignored. It is condescending to assume that they need to be rescued. Many are well-educated and consciously elect to work in the sex trade as a means to further personal financial goals. Others choose work in the sex trade as an expedient means to improve personal circumstances. The point being, it is a personal choice.

3. The sex trade is a business, but it is unique in that privacy and personal safety is paramount. Regulations must take privacy concerns into account. Prostitution is a transition stage for most women, many of whom have higher aspirations. Requirements to register as prostitutes in a public database is simply not a viable option.

Personal privacy is also a major consideration in terms of access to justice. Requirements to disclose personal information is a major deterrent to reporting crimes against sexworkers to the police. A new paradigm is required to foster trust and cooperation between sexworkers and law enforcement officials.