Woman, teen niece raped, 3-year-old son killed, husband beaten in Mexico carjacking

[Phil C. McNasty]

you dislike Mexicans

I never said that. Show me the exact post where you claim I said that, please

 

[mandrill]

No they arent! You are clueless, fuji. Its plain for everyone on Terb to see.

I almost hope you never get banned because its pure entertainment how you think you're "elite" (LOL) and clearly you're one of the dumbest guys on this forum.

Mexico is comprised of a number of different races: http://www.banderasnews.com/0707/eded-racesofmexico.htm

So let's do it this way, Phillie. Almost all American Blacks are genetically impure - i.e. they have some white genetic admixture and occasionally some Amerindian.

Does this mean that someone can only be a racist vis a vis American Blacks towards Blacks with no White blood in them?

 

[mandrill]

I never said that. Show me the exact post where you claim I said that, please

Your general attitude.

Nice deflection. Deal with the rest of my post and post #142 responding to you.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Isn't the assumption that the town has a set number of murders per year and a set number are committed by "illegal immigrants" a little artificial and frankly silly?

Okay, simple answer is no.

There were 126 murders committed by illegal immigrants in 2016, thats 126 too many.
And thats not even including all the other crime like drug trafficking, rapes, burglaries...etc..etc

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

So let's do it this way, Phillie. Almost all American Blacks are genetically impure - i.e. they have some white genetic admixture and occasionally some Amerindian.

Does this mean that someone can only be a racist vis a vis American Blacks towards Blacks with no White blood in them?

You Lefties throw around the term "racist" way too easily.
If I lived in a border town in Texas and there was continuous crime and drug trafficking coming in from Mexico, I would want a wall built as well. Not because I hate Mexicans, but because I hate crime (and being a victim of crime).

Let me ask you oagre, do you lock your door at night when you get home??
Also, I'm assuming your apartment/house is surrounded by walls. Aside from protecting you from weather elements and offering privacy, what would be another very useful purpose of those walls??

 

[mandrill]

Okay, simple answer is no.

There were 126 murders committed by illegal immigrants in 2016, thats 126 too many.
And thats not even including all the drug trafficking, rapes, burglaries...etc..etc

Every murder is a murder too many. You are already separating "illegal immigrant murders (done by Mexicans)" in your head from the rest of the murders and starting to focus on them and become angry and frustrated and demand that vast amounts of $$$ be spent to "stop" them without any proof that those expensive measures will work. It's silly.

I don't want murderers in my country either and if they are illegal immigrants, then I certainly don't want them in my country. But the Wall is a boondoggle. I agree with Promo's posts earlier in the thread. He and Frankcastle are making good points. You and Fast are simply reconstituting your eternal sniping at Fuji.

 

[mandrill]

You Lefties throw around the term "racist" way too easily.
If I lived in a border town in Texas and there was continuous crime and drug trafficking coming in from Mexico, I would want a wall built as well. Not because I hate Mexicans, but because I hate crime (and being a victim of crime).

Let me ask you oagre, do you lock your door at night when you get home??
Also, I'm assuming your apartment/house is surrounded by walls. Aside from protecting you from weather elements and offering privacy, what would be another very useful purpose of those walls??

It's "racist" if there is an assumption that one identifiable group of people consistently behaves more badly than another. Again, Promo's posts are interesting, the OP's aren't because they make assumptions about Mexicans.

If you want to quibble about using the term "racist", I am happy to say "bigoted" instead.

Your hypothetical border town - you ever talked to anyone from such a town? I'm guessing they want a better police force and no drug trafficking - either American or Latino. Convincing anyone that the Wall is going to work is a pretty hard sell.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

It's "racist" if there is an assumption that one identifiable group of people consistently behaves more badly than another. Again, Promo's posts are interesting, the OP's aren't because they make assumptions about Mexicans.

If you want to quibble about using the term "racist", I am happy to say "bigoted" instead.

Your hypothetical border town - you ever talked to anyone from such a town? I'm guessing they want a better police force and no drug trafficking - either American or Latino. Convincing anyone that the Wall is going to work is a pretty hard sell

Right, thats what I thought. You never answered my question and you went straight to the bigot-card.
Here is my question again. Try answering it this time:

Let me ask you oagre, do you lock your door at night when you get home??
Also, I'm assuming your apartment/house is surrounded by walls. Aside from protecting you from weather elements and offering privacy, what would be another very useful purpose of those walls??

 

[SkyRider]

You Lefties throw around the term "racist" way too easily.

It's a leftie tactic to put reasonable and rational people on the defensive. When they can't win an argument/debate on merit, they play the "race card". Hey, it worked for O.J. Simpson.

BTW: There is an unproven theory that illegal immigrants, like escaped Nazis, tend to be law abiding because they don't want to attract unwanted attention from LE and risk deportation.

 

[FAST]

Race of the day,...Liberals,...and more to come,...stay tuned.

You and your buddies don't like me, Fast? Oooooh, must be some nasty butt-hurt happening there for you? I bet you and your friends PM each other about me and tell each other that I'm a triggered, Libtard, brain dead sheep who reads the Washington Post! But anyway....

You think WAY too much of yourself,...PM to another member about you,...that's hilarious,...nobody really gives a shit about you,...

Sure, genetic race and culture are totally different. Canadians are genetically similar to Americans, sort of, give or take. So what?

No one is talking genetics in this thread. It's all about social environment, cultural environment and cultural norms. And yes, you can be "Racist" for disliking someone on grounds of nationality - i.e. Mexican, American - as opposed to genetic race.

So once again with the with the ridiculously stating that nationality and race are one in the same,...next you are going to pronounce that,...Liberals are a race,...and if anybody was to denounce them,...they are being a racist,...now if you are as you claim,...a "brain dead sheep",...that's a whole other story.

Now let me predict what your going to do. For the next three or four days, you're going to barrage this thread with posts about how genetic race and cultural identity are totally different and how Fuji and Oagre are "liars" because they don't accept this - right?[/COLOR]

Nope,...you already stated,..."Sure, genetic race and culture are totally different"?,....so why would I have to repeat that,..."genetic race and cultural identity",....are totally different,...
And no oagre,...you are called a liar when you lie about the OP,...NOT when you disagree.
As far as you and fuji,...says something about a person,... by the company they keep,...

 

[mandrill]

You think WAY too much of yourself,...PM to another member about you,...that's hilarious,...nobody really gives a shit about you,...



So once again with the with the ridiculously stating that nationality and race are one in the same,...next you are going to pronounce that,...Liberals are a race,...and if anybody was to denounce them,...they are being a racist,...now if you are as you claim,...a "brain dead sheep",...that's a whole other story.



Nope,...you already stated,..."Sure, genetic race and culture are totally different"?,....so why would I have to repeat that,..."genetic race and cultural identity",....are totally different,...
And no oagre,...you are called a liar when you lie about the OP,...NOT when you disagree.
As far as you and fuji,...says something about a person,... by the company they keep,...

You are obviously looking forward to an ongoing, multi-page troll war with me, like the ones you have with Fuji. Not playing. You are a time-waster. You are abusive. And I have had enough of you for a while. You're going to join a couple of your buddies on the ignore list.

 

[mandrill]

Right, thats what I thought. You never answered my question and you went straight to the bigot-card.
Here is my question again. Try answering it this time:

Given the fact that the entire thread is about bigotry, why would I not discuss it?

And why would you want to know if I lock my door at night? Assume I do and make your point anyway. Let's see what it is. I hope it's worth all the fuss and build-up.

 

[frankcastle]

would a wall even work. the really bad hombres....drug dealers have tunnels and low flying planes.

i think the wall will block out more of the home depot labourers rather than killers etc.

 

[frankcastle]

a 12 to 25 billion dollar 2000 mile wall that wont work.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/homeland-security-john-kelly-border-wall.html

according to a rep from homeland security

 

[Promo]

Right, so lets say for example a US-Mexican border town has 10 murders each year, of which 2 are committed by illegal immigrants. Building a wall can at least help reduce that number to 8 by making it very difficult for an illegal to cross the border into the US.

And yes I realize you'll never be able to stop ALL crime committed by illegals, but its at least a good start

I'd like to point out that many of your statements and statistics throughout this thread are not based on facts and therefore your conclusions are not credible.

1) There are ~11M "illegal immigrants" in the US. Only half are Mexican (~5.6-6.2M) down from 6.4M in 2000-2009 and that number continues to decline. Although total Hispanic immigrants are still the majority, the number is declining and East-Indian and Asian illegal immigrant numbers are increasing rapidly.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-illegal-immigrants.html

2) Crime statistics show that for illegal Mexican immigrants that have been in the US at least 1 year that their crime rates are approximately 1/3 the American average and for 2+ years 1/4 to 1/8 the American average.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Crime
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#United_States
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-illegal-immigrants.html
http://www.nber.org/papers/w13229.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/us/trump-illegal-immigrants-crime.html?_r=0
https://www.cato.org/blog/immigration-crime-what-research-says

3) Of the murders committed by illegal Mexicans in the US: an estimated 85% are directly related to the drug trade (Mexicans killing Americans who were also in the drug trade) and 80% of the murders occur within 250 miles of the Mexican border. Of the approximately 60-80 murders committed in the US by illegal Mexicans in 2015, most were attributed to contract killers who crossed the border legally at a checkpoint, for the purpose of killing an American drug trafficker that pissed off a Mexican Cartel.

Conclusion 1: Illegal Mexican immigrant population was stable for 10 years and has been in steady decline since 2010. This has happened without a wall
Conclusion 2: The Mexican wall will in no way stop illegal immigration from the Middle East, India or Asia
Conclusion 3: Illegal Mexicans who have been in the US at least 1 year commit less crimes than native Americans.
Conclusion 4: The majority of murders committed by Mexicans in the US were drug related against other criminals and the killers came into the country legally.

A few notable quotes from wikipedia:
"In fact, a majority of studies in the U.S. have found lower crime rates among immigrants than among non-immigrants, and that higher concentrations of immigrants are associated with lower crime rates".
"Research finds that Secure Communities, an immigration enforcement program which led to a quarter of a million of detentions, had no observable impact on the crime rate"
"A 2015 study found that the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act, which legalized almost 3 million immigrants, led to "decreases in crime of 3-5 percent, primarily due to decline in property crimes, equivalent to 120,000-180,000 fewer violent and property crimes committed each year due to legalization"

 

[Promo]

Right, so lets say for example a US-Mexican border town has 10 murders each year, of which 2 are committed by illegal immigrants. Building a wall can at least help reduce that number to 8 by making it very difficult for an illegal to cross the border into the US.

And yes I realize you'll never be able to stop ALL crime committed by illegals, but its at least a good start

So, based on the information I provide in my above post, let me comment on your statement:

1) If we focus on 2015 national crime statistics: Of the 15696 murders, approximately 60-80 can be contributed to Illegal Mexicans. That's .38-.5%. Could the $15B-$30B be better spent on law enforcement officers, education or 20+ other programs that will better address the other 99.62% of murders?

2) Understandings that most of the murders by Mexicans that occurred in the US; the Mexicans came across the border legally at a checkpoint, will the wall make any difference?

3) I'm assuming you are using your border city example because it's the only geography that Mexicans are associated with a disproportionate percentage of crime. Understanding that in your example, of those 2 killings, >1.8 of the people killed were American drug traffickers (or in some way related to the drug business), do we really care?

In summary, does it make sense to spend $15B -$30B on a wall that will in almost NO WAY keep the killers out and who are in the US only to kill other criminals? Or should we spend less on the see-through fence (if at all - since it was just an election FUD promise) and use the money on addressing the drug and domestic violent crime problem?

Even Law Enforcement and Homeland Security don't believe the wall will address the real problems. You've been TRUMPED!

 

[Promo]

I wouldn't be surprise if a lot of crimes in Mexico go unreported because Mexican cops are so corrupt.

I already stated that in a previous thread and that the crime stats are therefore questionable.

It's also fact that since Trump started his anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim rhetoric that crimes within the US by native Americans against both groups has increased significantly. Both groups fear reporting the crimes as they don't feel they will be fairly treated and illegal immigrants worry they will be arrested and deported. Particularly heinous is the harassment of Hispanic and Middle Eastern children in schools (whether they are Muslim, Mexican or other). Many brown-skinned Americans (including your beloved Sikhs) are reporting increased crime and harassment. Many of my Indian friends in Silicon Valley have been harassed in bars and clubs because the idiots thought they might be Muslims. Whether Trump's goals are right or wrong no longer matters - his approach to dealing with the issues has become the bigger problem.

Example, Roberto Alomar was raped by Mexicans when he was 17. He waited 25 years to make that public.

Relevance? Do you know have many women in Canada were raped and waited years before they report it? You would be shocked by the percentage.

You Lefties throw around the term "racist" way too easily.

It's a leftie tactic to put reasonable and rational people on the defensive. When they can't win an argument/debate on merit, they play the "race card". Hey, it worked for O.J. Simpson.

BTW: There is an unproven theory that illegal immigrants, like escaped Nazis, tend to be law abiding because they don't want to attract unwanted attention from LE and risk deportation.

And you extreme righties and alt-righties make up facts allot, offer incorrect conclusions allot, create FUD allot, insult allot - in summary you lie allot. Remember, I'm right leaning and and I can say with 100% confidence that the skyriders, phils, smallcocks, supercharges, etc. in no way represent the views on the majority of conservatives in the US and Canada. Fortunately as the current POTUS continues to crumble under his own incompetence and lies the alt-right are crashing too. Soon the pendulum will move back to the center. Breitbart Internet traffic is starting to decline - let's recheck in 6 months!
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/breitbart.com
http://www.rank2traffic.com/breitbart.com

Skyrider, a Nazi comparison - stop your friggin trolling! Your constant background dribble embarresses us all and degrades the board as a whole.

 

[gmaximus]

I already stated that in a previous thread and that as a result the crime stats are questionable.

It's also fact that since Trump started his anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim rhetoric that crimes within the US by native Americans against both groups has increased significantly. Both groups fear reporting the crimes as they don't feel they will be fairly treated and illegal immigrants worry they will be arrested and deported. Particularly heinous is the harassment of Hispanic and Middle Eastern children in schools (whether they are Muslim, Mexican or other). Many brown-skinned Americans (including your beloved Sikhs) are reporting increased crime and harassment. Many of my Indian friends in Silicon Valley have been harassed in bars and clubs because the idiots thought they might be Muslims. Whether Trump's goals are right or wrong no longer matters - his approach to dealing with the issues has become the bigger problem.


Relevance? Do you know have many women in Canada were raped and waited years before they report it? You would be shocked by the percentage.



And you extreme righties and alt-righties make up facts allot, offer incorrect conclusions allot, create FUD allot, insult allot - in summary you lie allot. Remember, I'm right leaning and the skyriders, phils, smallcocks, supercharges, etc. and I can say with 100% confidence you no way represent the views on the majority of conservatives in the US.

Skyrider, a Nazi comparison - stop your friggin trolling! Your constant background dribble embarresses us all and degrades the board as a whole.

+100. Couldn't have said it better my self Promo. Some of the sad people on this board are the reason why I stay away from the Lounge. They are turning it into a cess pool like the blue board. Mods need to do a better job.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

And why would you want to know if I lock my door at night? Assume I do and make your point anyway

If you're allowed to protect your home from harm on a micro-scale, then why wouldnt the US be allowed to build a wall to protect itself on a macro-scale (in your view)??

And I dont wanna get into the argument whether a wall will work or not, just answer the question please

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I'd like to point out that many of your statements and statistics throughout this thread are not based on facts and therefore your conclusions are not credible.

1) There are ~11M "illegal immigrants" in the US. Only half are Mexican (~5.6-6.2M) down from 6.4M in 2000-2009 and that number continues to decline. Although total Hispanic immigrants are still the majority, the number is declining and East-Indian and Asian illegal immigrant numbers are increasing rapidly.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-illegal-immigrants.html

2) Crime statistics show that for illegal Mexican immigrants that have been in the US at least 1 year that their crime rates are approximately 1/3 the American average and for 2+ years 1/4 to 1/8 the American average.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Crime
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#United_States
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-illegal-immigrants.html
http://www.nber.org/papers/w13229.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/us/trump-illegal-immigrants-crime.html?_r=0
https://www.cato.org/blog/immigration-crime-what-research-says

3) Of the murders committed by illegal Mexicans in the US: an estimated 85% are directly related to the drug trade (Mexicans killing Americans who were also in the drug trade) and 80% of the murders occur within 250 miles of the Mexican border. Of the approximately 60-80 murders committed in the US by illegal Mexicans in 2015, most were attributed to contract killers who crossed the border legally at a checkpoint, for the purpose of killing an American drug trafficker that pissed off a Mexican Cartel.

Conclusion 1: Illegal Mexican immigrant population was stable for 10 years and has been in steady decline since 2010. This has happened without a wall
Conclusion 2: The Mexican wall will in no way stop illegal immigration from the Middle East, India or Asia
Conclusion 3: Illegal Mexicans who have been in the US at least 1 year commit less crimes than native Americans.
Conclusion 4: The majority of murders committed by Mexicans in the US were drug related against other criminals and the killers came into the country legally.

A few notable quotes from wikipedia:
"In fact, a majority of studies in the U.S. have found lower crime rates among immigrants than among non-immigrants, and that higher concentrations of immigrants are associated with lower crime rates".
"Research finds that Secure Communities, an immigration enforcement program which led to a quarter of a million of detentions, had no observable impact on the crime rate"
"A 2015 study found that the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act, which legalized almost 3 million immigrants, led to "decreases in crime of 3-5 percent, primarily due to decline in property crimes, equivalent to 120,000-180,000 fewer violent and property crimes committed each year due to legalization"

Your stats are wrong, because nobody knows the true number of illegal immigrants currently residing in the US. 11 million is the conservative estimate, some experts think its closer to 30 million