YORK U. Workers ordered back to work.

[spankingman]

Striking York Univ, workers were ordered back to work by the Ontario. Govt.
Ina unaminius vote 61-8 NDP being the 8 the McGuinty Govt. hoped this would resolve the 85 day strike and get the student who have PAID for their education back in the classroom by Monday

QUESTION!!!!!!!!

Should teachers Professors have the RIGHT TO STRIKE????????????

YES OR NO

Should they be classed as ESSENTIAL SERVICES????????????

Case in point If you do not send your kid to school you can be charged.If its that IMPORTANT it must mean its ESSENTIAL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gramage]

Education should be a right. So no, you should not be able to withhold a persons education.

The problem with that is that if you made education a right you'd be hard pressed to justify its cost at the post-secondary level.

 

[Hurricane Hank]

Maybe the students could file suit for teachers failing to honour what has been paid for.

 

[oldjones]

Huh? So, students should be able to sue the university for "not getting their education", despite the fact that it's striking union workers that are costing them. LOL
I think they should sue the union.
Just like they have the right to strike, they have the right to be sued.

How do you know it's the union and not management that refused to bargain. The old contract was over, it was time to agree on a new one; they didn't. How is that the union's fault?

Besides not making a deal—and we're talking weeks into the school year, not before the school year—with the teachers they needed, the administration made deals with students: hand over non refundable tuition cheques and we'll give you an education. Let's see, you take money from someone promising to deliver them something you get from someone else and you know you have no deal (and little prospect) with that someone else for it. The students are suing York for breach of contract? They should be suing for fraud.

If the teachers had no contract with York, what contract would they have had with the students?

 

[amber-jade]

can someone answer a question for me about all this..please?
(it is a multiple question)

-how long has this strike been going for now?
-how much strike pay do these people get ?
-how much are they asking for?
-how much have they LOST in regular pay?

- what is the difference between the two? ''less or greater ''than what they ''may or may not ''get in a new contract?



.

 

[gramage]

The reason you sue the university is because that is who you paid your money too.

 

[BuffNaked]

Striking York Univ, workers were ordered back to work by the Ontario. Govt.
Ina unaminius vote 61-8 NDP being the 8 the McGuinty Govt. hoped this would resolve the 85 day strike and get the student who have PAID for their education back in the classroom by Monday

QUESTION!!!!!!!!

Should teachers Professors have the RIGHT TO STRIKE????????????

YES OR NO

Should they be classed as ESSENTIAL SERVICES????????????

Case in point If you do not send your kid to school you can be charged.If its that IMPORTANT it must mean its ESSENTIAL!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's a question for you then. Should a man be ordered to work when he has said he won't?

 

[spankingman]

York Univ.

As usual when it comes to ANY teacher stike the STUDENTS are the ones that suffer the most.!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BuffNaked]

The flip side of that is "should a man be entitled to retain his job when he has said he won't work"?
There's the door.

You know when you work for a union and you go on strike, the employer doesn't pay your strike pay? Technically the money is coming out of the union in which the labour has already put into. So no, he really hasn't retained his job.

York hasn't kept it house in order for quite some time now. All the other post-secondary unions seem to get along with their employers... Just food for thought

 

[BuffNaked]

More food for thought. Does the problem lie with the union or the employer?
It's clear what you think.

YES. But knowing yorks previous labour disputes, I'm of the opinion that York doesn't exactly inspire confidence in their employees.

 

[KBear]

I thought these teaching assistants were contract workers, and the contract was renewed every year. Why couldn’t the university not renew the contract with this group, and hire another group of teaching assistants?

 

[BuffNaked]

I thought these teaching assistants were contract workers, and the contract was renewed every year. Why couldn’t the university not renew the contract with this group, and hire another group of teaching assistants?

Because a new group would still demand fair pay.

 

[BuffNaked]

Presumes that the existing group wasn't being offered "fair pay".

Define fair

 

[BuffNaked]

I'm not the one who used the term.
lol
I would say that their idea of "fair pay" is probably more than mine.
Everyone's entitled, these days ...

That really where the crux of the problem is. Workers come in and say they want this much because it's fair. Yorks definition of fair is different so they offer a little less. Now if they tried to get a new labour force in there, again, they would ask for what's "fair".

This is really all on york though. They are responsible for providing education for those who have paid. They have failed to do so. Doesn't matter why. I paid my tuition, so I want to go to class. If the school can't provide that, guess who's in violation of the implied contract? The school.

There have been how many strikes there in how many years. It seems like they are always on strike. I have friends that quit york because of their shenanigans and did college instead. But whatever. If york can't get it's act togeather, people will stop going, and some other post secondary institution will pick up their slack.

 

[oldjones]

Who said it was?
The assumption of the lawsuit, however, is that the university is to blame.
How is the fact that they couldn't agree on a contract the university's fault?
I guess a judge will decide.

NO. The assumption of the lawsuit is the students had a deal with the university. You sue people for damaging you; if they were damaged by someone else they sue the someone else, not you.

You pays your money and you takes your chances. I'd say the students were well aware of the state of negotiations, so that doesn't fly.

If the students don't get to sue the University because they "were well aware of the state of negociations", then how do they get to sue the union, pray tell?

What will likely happen, if the university feels hard done by, is that they'll turn around and sue the union. Which, by labour law (pay attention now, Dr. Know), they are entitled to do if one side has been negotiating in bad faith.
Whether or not a judge will buy it remains to be seen. Good luck to them.

Seeing as how the management side only showed up at the table for eleven out of the eighty odd days, never had a contingency plan for the students, forced a vote on an unchanged offer without a plan for the possibility of losing it, I'd say they were pretty clearly not bargaining in good faith. Trying to sue the union with that record would truly prove their incompetence. You can't sue just because one side didn't bargain in good faith, it has to be the other side that didn't.

But as you're an apologist for the university, please refresh my memory: Over the months of the strike, what efforts did the administration make to ensure the students who had paid for their courses in advance would actually get their education. Temporary classes elsewhere, On-line lectures, contra deals with other universities, take-home assignments, constantly updating the academic year calendar? Anything at all?

 

[KBear]

Because a new group would still demand fair pay.

If the new group did not feel the pay was fair, then why would they take the job in the first place?

 

[thompo69]

Striking York Univ, workers were ordered back to work by the Ontario. Govt.
Ina unaminius vote 61-8 NDP being the 8 the McGuinty Govt. hoped this would resolve the 85 day strike and get the student who have PAID for their education back in the classroom by Monday

I think you should look up the word "unanimous."

 

[thompo69]

-how long has this strike been going for now?

Since November 6.

-how much strike pay do these people get ?

Up to $200 a week, depending on the number of picket-shifts they worked.

-how much are they asking for?

Their salary demand was 11% over 2 years. York was offering 9.5% over 3 years. The larger problem had to do with job security for contract instructors. Also, CUPE didn't want to enter into an agreement longer than two years as they were trying to set it up so that the CBAs for as many of the TA unions they represent across the province would expire at the same time, allowing them to his many campuses at once with their next labour action.

-how much have they LOST in regular pay?

Very difficult to assess as there are many variables at play.

 

[JohnLarue]

You know when you work for a union and you go on strike, the employer doesn't pay your strike pay? Technically the money is coming out of the union in which the labor has already put into. So no, he really hasn't retained his job.

York hasn't kept it house in order for quite some time now. All the other post-secondary unions seem to get along with their employers... Just food for thought

I think you missed the point.
I believe what the original poster meant was if you go on strike you loss your job and the right to work for that employer in the future.
Where the strike pay comes from is only relevant to the striking employee and is little or no concern to the employer or the students.

This opinion may be a little too far to the right

The right to strike is an important one as it historically corrected some bad employer treatment of employees (e.g Children in the coal mines etc).
I do believe the pendulum has swung far too much to the left and is far too often used as a threat to obtain excessive compensation

I do not know all the details in this case and excessive compensation may not apply, however it appears the students are ones getting screwed here.

Many students save or borrow a lot to attend University
Even if they receive a tuition refund they still need to pay for living accommodations & food during this strike & its difficult for them to quickly get a job while they wait for a settlement.

International students (& York has lots) could get royally screwed over if they lose a year. The financial burden may prevent them from completing their program, if they are allowed an extra year on their student visa.

Both parties should take a step back and think about why they wanted to work for an education institute in the first place
Most will answer "to help young people learn"

Well the mission is not being accomplished. Shame on both sides

 

[oldjones]

…edit…
I just disagree with the a priori notion that it's the university's fault - especially when it's clear that those arguing that point seem prejudiced against them.

And your open-mindedness towards the union appears in which of your posts?