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Israel at war

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Kautilya

Kautilya

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May 12, 2023
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Butler1000 said:
So ask voters one main reason they are opposed to the war is the cost. They are sick of sending 100's of billions out while their own nation is crumbling. And yes that is common on the left and right. The right want tax breaks, the left want more localized social services. But both are in agreement they want the money to stay home. Whether military aid, NATO, or over spending on the US Military. The obvious divergence on humanitarian aid, but I've seen the laft asking why we have homeless as well.

People are complicated. Differing forces can come together over common cause and enemies. Some of the associated Anti-semitism is right wing off campus agitators. Protests are not just on the campuses but online as well. The crowd outside the recent Press dinner was a mixed crowd. And people can and will state one reason they are protesting while holding personal and not necessarily as politically correct opinions as well.
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People opposed to this particular war, are against it because it is a genocide. The protestors are worried about the Palestinians and the oppression, apartheid and genocide they are suffering. Many protestors are infact Palestinians, or are from Muslim nations, or are anti-Zionist Jewish people who feel personally about this.

When it comes to money the opposition is two fold.

A) The money comes from lobby groups like AIPAC that control and manipulate our governments in favour of a foreign state.
B) Consequently our governments not only help Israel at forums such as the UN by vetoing anything harmful to Israel, but also send billions in aid that is being used against the Palestinians.

So again, the call is to help Palestinians. It is however not a demand for that money to be used here instead for better social services. That is something the protestors may agree with if you ask them, but that is not what is in their minds when they go out there to protest, and it is not why they protest.

There are of course some far right wing individuals who also support Palestinians, but they don't hold any love for the Palestinians. They just hate Jews more. So we can disregard them as they are in the fringe minority.

I believe yours is an incorrect characterization of the motives of the protestors because you have conflated your own motives, with that of the protestors. If you talked to anyone who is pro-Palestinian the last thing you will hear from them is their worry that the govt. is not providing social services.
 
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Frankfooter

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Valcazar said:
Than voting in Trump?
Yes.
Not doing that.
That's a better strategy.
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Based on what rationale?
Your feelies?

That's not what I asked.
Do you honestly think that "no better" is the only option if someone is different?
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I think this genocide will be over before the election.
Are you arguing that electing rump means he will coerce Netanyahu or Ben Gvir or whoever is leading Israel in November to commit a far worse genocide?
 
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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
People opposed to this particular war, are against it because it is a genocide. The protestors are worried about the Palestinians and the oppression, apartheid and genocide they are suffering. Many protestors are infact Palestinians, or are from Muslim nations, or are anti-Zionist Jewish people who feel personally about this.

When it comes to money the opposition is two fold.

A) The money comes from lobby groups like AIPAC that control and manipulate our governments in favour of a foreign state.
B) Consequently our governments not only help Israel at forums such as the UN by vetoing anything harmful to Israel, but also send billions in aid that is being used against the Palestinians.

So again, the call is to help Palestinians. It is however not a demand for that money to be used here instead for better social services. That is something the protestors may agree with if you ask them, but that is not what is in their minds when they go out there to protest, and it is not why they protest.

There are of course some far right wing individuals who also support Palestinians, but they don't hold any love for the Palestinians. They just hate Jews more. So we can disregard them as they are in the fringe minority.

I believe yours is an incorrect characterization of the motives of the protestors because you have conflated your own motives, with that of the protestors. If you talked to anyone who is pro-Palestinian the last thing you will hear from them is their worry that the govt. is not providing social services.
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Your social media feed algorithms are feeding you what you want to hear. There is an entire right wing anti war population that don't give a rat's ass about Israel or the Palestinians.

Go ahead. Try a search. See what comes up.
 
Kautilya

Kautilya

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Butler1000 said:
Your social media feed algorithms are feeding you what you want to hear. There is an entire right wing anti war population that don't give a rat's ass about Israel or the Palestinians.

Go ahead. Try a search. See what comes up.
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Yes. I know there is a right wing anti-war group - and that is what I mentioned in my first response to you. They are the same ones who do not want the US to give aid to Ukraine. But they also support Russia which is why we dont take them seriously either.
 
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Frankfooter

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Butler1000 said:
Your social media feed algorithms are feeding you what you want to hear. There is an entire right wing anti war population that don't give a rat's ass about Israel or the Palestinians.

Go ahead. Try a search. See what comes up.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, the white supremacist, libertarian wing of MAGA.
The boogaloo bois that will lead the US through revolution to shangri la.

The vast majority of protest for Palestinians have been the mainstream and liberals.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784721046270038266

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784226784176660984

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1782743558811697179

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784725255405109439
 
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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
Yes. I know there is a right wing anti-war group - and that is what I mentioned in my first response to you. They are the same ones who do not want the US to give aid to Ukraine. But they also support Russia which is why we dont take them seriously either.
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You will find lots of centrists and more opposed to all military aid. And don't care about any of the sides. That's isolationism. You don't get to over 60% anti war without a significant portion of GOP viters. And more than you think.
 
Kautilya

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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Butler1000 said:
You will find lots of centrists and more opposed to all military aid. And don't care about any of the sides. That's isolationism. You don't get to over 60% anti war without a significant portion of GOP viters. And more than you think.
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Well, isolationism is more than aid. But regardless of that, I dont understand what 60% anti-war means. Was there a poll where 60% of those polled did not want war? Because not wanting war is also different from being anti-war. I dont want war either. But sometimes I agree war is necessary, and in many other cases, inevitable. Anti-war is that we should not act even to help, regardless of what happens in another country and that is not what most people advocate for.
 
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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
Well, isolationism is more than aid. But regardless of that, I dont understand what 60% anti-war means. Was there a poll where 60% of those polled did not want war? Because not wanting war is also different from being anti-war. I dont want war either. But sometimes I agree war is necessary, and in many other cases, inevitable. Anti-war is that we should not act even to help, regardless of what happens in another country and that is not what most people advocate for.
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Polling shows over 60 do not support what's going on in Israel. You don't get there without the GOP voters. As well remember who was against sending military aid to Israel in Congress and who voted for it. Polling for sending aid to Ukraine is also steadily dropping.

The Average US citizen does not want to pay for foreign wars anymore. For varying reasons.
 
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