Stacy Clarke...should be fired...

[Skoob]

It was proposed and discussed but someone higher up cancelled it.
So you think she should be fired for acting on it?

You tried to peddle misinformation and implied that there was actually a policy in place without mentioning the fact that there wasn't because that policy was never implemented.
Why are you trying so hard to mislead people and spread misinformation? Do you seriously think you won't be called out on it every time?
No wonder no one takes you seriously.
Maybe that's why you do it...to get attention?


ps Yes, she should be fired.

 

[SchlongConery]

I have no doubt she did feed the questions to other black cops. Just as I'm sure the system has systematic bias.
What I wonder about is why is this a big story to skoob?
Its an internal issue related to promotions, its not a public safety issue or a major issue at all.
Why is this even a story worthy of discussions here?

<sigh>

So are you saying that since policing is fundamentally corrupt, that corruption at the highest levels of leadership is "not a major issue"?

Are you a man of principle, who values integrity and looks to those in such elevated, trusted, positions should be held to the same, if not higher standards of integrity?

Or, no biggie. What's the worse that can happen?

Remember, we the people give this organization the permission to carry guns and kills us at their discretion. Discretion based on the fundamental principle of working within the rule of law. All laws. Including administrative law, and "The Police Act".

 

[SchlongConery]

It was proposed and discussed but someone higher up cancelled it.
So you think she should be fired for acting on it?

You argue from a false premise.

It was proposed and discussed. It was not approved. Therefore "someone higher up" can't "cancel it"!

Do you have any idea how many ideas and policies get proposed, discussed and then allowed to disappear gracefully. Without ridiculing the proponent?

Fuck, she proposed giving the questions for a test in advance of the test. What good is the test then? Tests usually cover a smattering of specifics so that the student has to be familiar with the entire subject they are being tested on. If they know the questions, then they don't need to study anything except answering those specific questions. There are several tests to become a Sargeant. Many of them are designed to test the dynamic problem solving ability of the candidate officer. So that his/her natural leadership or ability to think on his/her feet and lead/direct/set an example for officers under his/her command. Lives depend on this. especially at the Sargeant and S/Sgt level. Once you get to Inspector you are just a starched shirt bureaucrat and those promotion exams are just climbing the ladder for personal ambition or desire to get off the road.

 

[Frankfooter]

You tried to peddle misinformation and implied that there was actually a policy in place without mentioning the fact that there wasn't because that policy was never implemented.
Why are you trying so hard to mislead people and spread misinformation? Do you seriously think you won't be called out on it every time?
No wonder no one takes you seriously.
Maybe that's why you do it...to get attention?


ps Yes, she should be fired.

No, skoob, that's not what I said.
You're falling on your face again, read the posts.

 

[Frankfooter]

You argue from a false premise.

It was proposed and discussed. It was not approved. Therefore "someone higher up" can't "cancel it"!

Do you have any idea how many ideas and policies get proposed, discussed and then allowed to disappear gracefully. Without ridiculing the proponent?

Fuck, she proposed giving the questions for a test in advance of the test. What good is the test then? Tests usually cover a smattering of specifics so that the student has to be familiar with the entire subject they are being tested on. If they know the questions, then they don't need to study anything except answering those specific questions. There are several tests to become a Sargeant. Many of them are designed to test the dynamic problem solving ability of the candidate officer. So that his/her natural leadership or ability to think on his/her feet and lead/direct/set an example for officers under his/her command. Lives depend on this. especially at the Sargeant and S/Sgt level. Once you get to Inspector you are just a starched shirt bureaucrat and those promotion exams are just climbing the ladder for personal ambition or desire to get off the road.

Its more complicated than that, schlong. Clarke and others reported that it was also common that other cops gave the questions to friends beforehand, that this was part of systematic bias. That's why they campaigned on making the questions public. How important do you think questionaires are in promotions anyways?

But the bigger question is why is this story here? Why are policies for promotion such a big deal in this one case compared to other OPP and Toronto scandals?

She cited a 2022 report by consulting firm Deloitte, which found “a clear perception” among officers that discrimination regularly occurs, including in a promotional process.

It is a commonly held belief — established before her own cheating scandal broke, “even before I became a cop” — that some candidates are given the interview questions beforehand, she said.

Cheating was an open secret within Toronto police, Stacy Clarke says, acknowledging ‘this is not an excuse’

Pressed on whether she knew if other senior Toronto cops similarly helped their own preferred candidates, Clarke conceded: “I don’t have direct knowledge.”

www.thestar.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/superintendent-stacy-clarke-closing-statements-1.7199066

 

[Skoob]

No, skoob, that's not what I said.
You're falling on your face again, read the posts.

It's exactly what you said.

You're just moving to the next step in your tactics whereby you deny what you said after you've been caught spreading false information.

Usual bs from you. Boring.

 

[Frankfooter]

It's exactly what you said.

You're just moving to the next step in your tactics whereby you deny what you said after you've been caught spreading false information.

Usual bs from you. Boring.

Prove it.

 

[SchlongConery]

Prove it.

The onus is on you, the one making the accusation of him lying, Mr. Trump

 

[Frankfooter]

The onus is on you, the one making the accusation of him lying, Mr. Trump

No way, schlong.
Its skoob that made a false accusation about what I said that he can't back up.
He needs to prove his initial accusation in post #81.

 

[Frankfooter]

<sigh>

So are you saying that since policing is fundamentally corrupt, that corruption at the highest levels of leadership is "not a major issue"?

Are you a man of principle, who values integrity and looks to those in such elevated, trusted, positions should be held to the same, if not higher standards of integrity?

Or, no biggie. What's the worse that can happen?

Remember, we the people give this organization the permission to carry guns and kills us at their discretion. Discretion based on the fundamental principle of working within the rule of law. All laws. Including administrative law, and "The Police Act".

No, schlong, that's not at all what I'm saying.

I'm saying that Clarke works within a police system that has systemic bias within it. That according to the reports passing questions to applicants was happening fairly regularly so she worked to have the policy changed. That policy change was in process but was stopped by the admin. She then made the poor choice to try to personally overcome the systemic bias by providing questions to black applicants.

Is this really corruption? Was this done for personal gain or a misguided attempt to even the system?

Did she subvert the system, yes. Do others also do so, yes. Has anyone else been punished for it, not that we know.

Again, why is this a big story here? Its a person acting against policy towards promotions of people who are already cops. Unless you think she's doing it to promote inept or corrupt cops, who all happen to be black, there is little chance this would corrupt the system unless you also think having a police force that represents the demographics of the city is corruption.

Sure, discipline her but then investigate the other hires that were possibly corrupted through the same technique. Investigate other cops who may have give out the questions or change the policy so they all get the questions and this kind of favouritism isn't possible.

But really, there are way bigger issues with the police force than these promotions.
By the way, big day at the ICJ today.

 

[Skoob]

Prove it.

Prove what exactly? All the proof is in your responses that you've obviously lost track of because you try and constantly twist things to the extent that you, yourself get confused.
That's how you always bite yourself in the ass. Every time.

Inevitably your ask for "proof" because you either don't remember what you said, or are trying to stall and distract.

Just give it up already...you are failing miserably at whatever narrative you are pushing here.

 

[Skoob]

The onus is on you, the one making the accusation of him lying, Mr. Trump

Don't bother...it's his typical tactic when trying to distract from his failure at peddling some twisted narrative.
"Prove it" is his usual death knell when all other tactics have failed.

 

[Skoob]

No way, schlong.
Its skoob that made a false accusation about what I said that he can't back up.
He needs to prove his initial accusation in post #81.

The chickens have come home to roost....you don't even know what you post anymore. You just let free-flowing nonsense responses fly to attack someone.
You slip and slide with your responses and don't even keep track...then ask for "proof" when your argument is smoldering in a heap of burnt shit.

Hope you've learned your lesson.

 

[Frankfooter]

Prove what exactly? All the proof is in your responses that you've obviously lost track of because you try and constantly twist things to the extent that you, yourself get confused.
That's how you always bite yourself in the ass. Every time.

Inevitably your ask for "proof" because you either don't remember what you said, or are trying to stall and distract.

Just give it up already...you are failing miserably at whatever narrative you are pushing here.

Prove I peddled 'misinformation' as you claimed in post #81.

 

[Frankfooter]

The chickens have come home to roost....you don't even know what you post anymore. You just let free-flowing nonsense responses fly to attack someone.
You slip and slide with your responses and don't even keep track...then ask for "proof" when your argument is smoldering in a heap of burnt shit.

Hope you've learned your lesson.

Enjoy your chickens.

TPS has a 1.7% success rate for promotions of black cops.
Witnesses this week have testified that the promotion process was clearly biased with only 1.7 per cent of Black candidates who had been put up for promotion actually succeeding.

‘It was my tipping point:’ Police superintendent testifies years of systemic racism led to cheating scandal

Key findings from the OHRC’s inquiry into anti-Black racism in the Toronto Police Service

• 
  
  December 14, 2023
  The Ontario Human Rights Commission’s inquiry into anti-Black racism in the Toronto Police Service (TPS) found systemic racial discrimination, racial profiling and anti-Black racism across the spectrum of interactions with the TPS.
  Some of the key findings included:
  
  Stops and searches
  • The Inquiry finds that Black persons in Toronto are disproportionately stopped and searched by the TPS.
  • There are significant gaps in the provincial regulations, Toronto Police Services Board (TPSB) policies, and TPS procedures that govern police interactions with the public – especially in stops and searches.
    • TPS procedures on stops do not adequately restrict officers’ discretion to stopping individuals in non-arrest circumstances.
    • TPS procedures on Search of Persons do not provide sufficient guidance on the circumstances where searches are appropriate.
  • TPS has collected and retained significant personal data through carding/street checks, prior to January 1, 2017, which they should destroy unless they are needed for investigative purposes.
  
  Charges and arrests
  • The data and evidence reviewed in this report confirm that Black people in Toronto continue to be disproportionately arrested and charged.
  • The TPSB and TPS have acknowledged this fact and taken some remedial measures; however, there remain important gaps in policies, procedures and practices.
    • For example, current TPSB policies and TPS procedures offer minimal, if any, guidance on how to arrest, lay charges, or use alternatives such as a diversion or treatment program.
    • Officers need better training to reduce overcharging of vulnerable and marginalized communities, including Black communities.
  
  Artificial Intelligence (AI) technology
  • AI technology and automated decision making have the potential to exacerbate, perpetuate or even initiate discriminatory practices. The TPS has used controversial facial recognition technology in the past (Clearview AI), despite initially asserting that it had not. There is an ongoing concern that officers may engage in unsanctioned use of AI technology in the future. While the TPSB has created a policy on the use of AI technology, the TPS has not yet created an official procedure. The current draft procedure does not adequately address human rights concerns.
  
  Use of force
  • The data examined by the OHRC shows that Black people remain disproportionately over-represented in all instances of use of force by the TPS, including cases that result in death or serious physical injury, and in cases of lower-level use of force.
  • There are longstanding calls from previous reports and inquests for changes to use of force policies and procedures, which have not been addressed. This includes calls to improve how police officers are trained in use of force and monitored.
  
  Anti-racism initiatives and training
  • The TPSB and TPS do not have a distinct policy or procedure on racial profiling.
  • The TPS needs to better integrate anti-Black racism training into its training programs and develop an effective evaluation process.
  
  Accountability and Monitoring
  • The OHRC finds that there are significant gaps in the TPS and TPSB’s accountability mechanisms in relation to anti-Black racism, racial profiling and racial discrimination and TPS must implement a more transparent disciplinary process.
  • The OHRC’s recommendations address the need for the TPS’ Early Intervention System (EIS) to include indicators of racial discrimination or racial profiling by individual officers and platoons, units and divisions.
  • The report addresses the need for the TPS and TPSB to consider findings in court or tribunal cases as potential factors in the disciplinary process. This includes cases where racial profiling or racial discrimination was found by the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario or courts, or cases where an inference may be drawn that there was racial profiling or racial discrimination in criminal cases with Charter of Rights and Freedoms violations that did not assess whether there was racial profiling or racial discrimination.
  • Community oversight and engagement should be adequately resourced, independent and meaningful.
  • Independent monitoring and effective and expeditious legally binding enforcement measures are necessary to help establish trust with Black communities.
  
  Race-based data
  • The scope of data collection by the TPS should be expanded. The current scope does not address historical concerns about systemic anti-Black racism, racial profiling, and racial discrimination in all stops and all uses of force, and does not include sufficient monitoring and accountability. In addition, the TPS does not collect, analyze or report on race-based data for all stops, including investigative detentions, protective searches and frisk searches or use of force that results in physical injury that does not require medical attention.
  • The TPSB’s policy on race-based data prohibits race-based data from being used in officer performance management. The TPS’s early-warning system does not include race-based data.
  
  What the TPS and TPSB have done so far
  • The TPSB and the TPS have taken important steps since the Inquiry was launched to build trust with Black communities and address systemic racial discrimination in policing services. For example:
    • Chief Ramer apologized for systemic racism in 2022.
    • The TPSB passed its Policy on Race-Based Data Collection, Analysis and Public Reporting in 2019, which requires race-based data collection, analysis and reporting on a wide range of interactions.
    • The TPS analyzed 2020 race-based data on use of force and strip searches, and committed to implementing 38 action items. The TPS’s analysis went beyond the requirements of the regulation under the Anti-Racism Act.
    • The TPS’s new use-of-force procedure and the TPSB’s draft use-of-force policy, both of which were developed in 2022, require that, among other things:
      • de-escalation be continuously considered and used where possible, and
      • officers intervene where they witness inappropriate or excessive force being used by another officer and report it to their supervisor.
  • The TPSB adopted the 81 recommendations from its 2020 report on Police Reform in Toronto: Systemic Racism, Alternative Community Safety and Crisis Response Models and Building New Confidence in Public Safety (Police Reform Report).
  • The TPSB has taken a new collaborative and consultative approach to policy development, which was used to inform the development of the TPSB’s body-worn and race-based data collection policies.
  
  

 

[Skoob]

Prove I peddled 'misinformation' as you claimed in post #81.

Post #68: " She should be fired for acting on a policy change that was being planned but was put on hold? "

Misinformation and misleading. It was cancelled outright and never implemented and never on hold, most likely because it made no sense. You tried to minimize this issue by misleading people into thinking it was a policy change that was underway and just waiting, ie "put on hold". You did this to sell your narrative that what she did was fine because it was going to be the norm anyway, You were wrong.

You tried.
You failed.
I caught you.

You do this all the time...try and word things in a twisted fashion to mislead people hoping no one will notice. You're not good at it and I will call you out on it every time like I did.

 

[Skoob]

Enjoy your chickens.

TPS has a 1.7% success rate for promotions of black cops.
Witnesses this week have testified that the promotion process was clearly biased with only 1.7 per cent of Black candidates who had been put up for promotion actually succeeding.
‘It was my tipping point:’ Police superintendent testifies years of systemic racism led to cheating scandal

Key findings from the OHRC’s inquiry into anti-Black racism in the Toronto Police Service

• 
  
  December 14, 2023
  The Ontario Human Rights Commission’s inquiry into anti-Black racism in the Toronto Police Service (TPS) found systemic racial discrimination, racial profiling and anti-Black racism across the spectrum of interactions with the TPS.
  Some of the key findings included:
  
  Stops and searches
  • The Inquiry finds that Black persons in Toronto are disproportionately stopped and searched by the TPS.
  • There are significant gaps in the provincial regulations, Toronto Police Services Board (TPSB) policies, and TPS procedures that govern police interactions with the public – especially in stops and searches.
    • TPS procedures on stops do not adequately restrict officers’ discretion to stopping individuals in non-arrest circumstances.
    • TPS procedures on Search of Persons do not provide sufficient guidance on the circumstances where searches are appropriate.
  • TPS has collected and retained significant personal data through carding/street checks, prior to January 1, 2017, which they should destroy unless they are needed for investigative purposes.
• 
  Charges and arrests
  • The data and evidence reviewed in this report confirm that Black people in Toronto continue to be disproportionately arrested and charged.
  • The TPSB and TPS have acknowledged this fact and taken some remedial measures; however, there remain important gaps in policies, procedures and practices.
    • For example, current TPSB policies and TPS procedures offer minimal, if any, guidance on how to arrest, lay charges, or use alternatives such as a diversion or treatment program.
    • Officers need better training to reduce overcharging of vulnerable and marginalized communities, including Black communities.
• 
  Artificial Intelligence (AI) technology
  • AI technology and automated decision making have the potential to exacerbate, perpetuate or even initiate discriminatory practices. The TPS has used controversial facial recognition technology in the past (Clearview AI), despite initially asserting that it had not. There is an ongoing concern that officers may engage in unsanctioned use of AI technology in the future. While the TPSB has created a policy on the use of AI technology, the TPS has not yet created an official procedure. The current draft procedure does not adequately address human rights concerns.
• 
  Use of force
  • The data examined by the OHRC shows that Black people remain disproportionately over-represented in all instances of use of force by the TPS, including cases that result in death or serious physical injury, and in cases of lower-level use of force.
  • There are longstanding calls from previous reports and inquests for changes to use of force policies and procedures, which have not been addressed. This includes calls to improve how police officers are trained in use of force and monitored.
• 
  Anti-racism initiatives and training
  • The TPSB and TPS do not have a distinct policy or procedure on racial profiling.
  • The TPS needs to better integrate anti-Black racism training into its training programs and develop an effective evaluation process.
• 
  Accountability and Monitoring
  • The OHRC finds that there are significant gaps in the TPS and TPSB’s accountability mechanisms in relation to anti-Black racism, racial profiling and racial discrimination and TPS must implement a more transparent disciplinary process.
  • The OHRC’s recommendations address the need for the TPS’ Early Intervention System (EIS) to include indicators of racial discrimination or racial profiling by individual officers and platoons, units and divisions.
  • The report addresses the need for the TPS and TPSB to consider findings in court or tribunal cases as potential factors in the disciplinary process. This includes cases where racial profiling or racial discrimination was found by the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario or courts, or cases where an inference may be drawn that there was racial profiling or racial discrimination in criminal cases with Charter of Rights and Freedoms violations that did not assess whether there was racial profiling or racial discrimination.
  • Community oversight and engagement should be adequately resourced, independent and meaningful.
  • Independent monitoring and effective and expeditious legally binding enforcement measures are necessary to help establish trust with Black communities.
• 
  Race-based data
  • The scope of data collection by the TPS should be expanded. The current scope does not address historical concerns about systemic anti-Black racism, racial profiling, and racial discrimination in all stops and all uses of force, and does not include sufficient monitoring and accountability. In addition, the TPS does not collect, analyze or report on race-based data for all stops, including investigative detentions, protective searches and frisk searches or use of force that results in physical injury that does not require medical attention.
  • The TPSB’s policy on race-based data prohibits race-based data from being used in officer performance management. The TPS’s early-warning system does not include race-based data.
• 
  What the TPS and TPSB have done so far
  • The TPSB and the TPS have taken important steps since the Inquiry was launched to build trust with Black communities and address systemic racial discrimination in policing services. For example:
    • Chief Ramer apologized for systemic racism in 2022.
    • The TPSB passed its Policy on Race-Based Data Collection, Analysis and Public Reporting in 2019, which requires race-based data collection, analysis and reporting on a wide range of interactions.
    • The TPS analyzed 2020 race-based data on use of force and strip searches, and committed to implementing 38 action items. The TPS’s analysis went beyond the requirements of the regulation under the Anti-Racism Act.
    • The TPS’s new use-of-force procedure and the TPSB’s draft use-of-force policy, both of which were developed in 2022, require that, among other things:
      • de-escalation be continuously considered and used where possible, and
      • officers intervene where they witness inappropriate or excessive force being used by another officer and report it to their supervisor.
  • The TPSB adopted the 81 recommendations from its 2020 report on Police Reform in Toronto: Systemic Racism, Alternative Community Safety and Crisis Response Models and Building New Confidence in Public Safety (Police Reform Report).
  • The TPSB has taken a new collaborative and consultative approach to policy development, which was used to inform the development of the TPSB’s body-worn and race-based data collection policies.

What does a report on the public interfacing with TPS have to do with her cheating and needing to be fired?

You are distracting again as usual, trying to expand the topic and drift things away...it's not working for you.

Officers that cheat the internal promotional system should be fired.

 

[Frankfooter]

Post #68: " She should be fired for acting on a policy change that was being planned but was put on hold? "

Misinformation and misleading. It was cancelled outright and never implemented and never on hold, most likely because it made no sense. You tried to minimize this issue by misleading people into thinking it was a policy change that was underway and just waiting, ie "put on hold". You did this to sell your narrative that what she did was fine because it was going to be the norm anyway, You were wrong.

You tried.
You failed.
I caught you.

You do this all the time...try and word things in a twisted fashion to mislead people hoping no one will notice. You're not good at it and I will call you out on it every time like I did.

Apologize for the false accusation, skoob.
The policy change was approved by the board and then cancelled.
You fell on your face again.

Clarke explained her frustration that after years of working internally on committees and finally achieving promises that the promotions process would be more fair and Black officers would finally have a level playing field and a shot at moving up the ranks, the TPS Board-approved plan to provide the interview questions in advance to all was abruptly shelved with no explanation.

 

[Skoob]

Apologize for the false accusation, skoob.
The policy change was approved by the board and then cancelled.
You fell on your face again.

Clarke explained her frustration that after years of working internally on committees and finally achieving promises that the promotions process would be more fair and Black officers would finally have a level playing field and a shot at moving up the ranks, the TPS Board-approved plan to provide the interview questions in advance to all was abruptly shelved with no explanation.

In other words it was cancelled and not put on hold like you claimed. You tried to mislead with false information and you failed.
You tried to make it sound like she did something that was about to happen anyway but was put on hold.
very misleading indeed.
How about you apologize?
I mean after your face heals of course.

 

[Frankfooter]

In other words it was cancelled and not put on hold like you claimed. You tried to mislead with false information and you failed.
You tried to make it sound like she did something that was about to happen anyway but was put on hold.
very misleading indeed.
How about you apologize?
I mean after your face heals of course.

No, skoob, my statements were accurate and I backed them up with sources.
Stop the bullshit.
You posted this to attack black cops in Toronto, you failed.
You then tried to attack me and you failed.

All you've done is fallen on your face, over and over again.