It's only terrorism if you have brown skin or a towel on your head

Aardvark154

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These landlords were British
If by British you mean by ancestry non-Irish, most were, a fair number where not. Then again this goes to for how long does ones family have to live somewhere before you are part of the place?

For instance the Irish happly consider the authors "Somerville and Ross" to be Irish authors, but under your definition they weren't.
 

fuji

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I doubt that you will be able to show that the British Army did this.
It is a matter of judicial fact that they did. Look up Brian Nelson. The Stevens Inquiry also found that between 5 and 15% of British Army soldiers in N. Ireland were also loyalist paramilitary men, that the membership of the Army and the paramilitaries in fact overlapped.

Moreover the British Army was the sole supplier of guns to loyalist paramilitaries.
 

Rockslinger

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If by British you mean by ancestry non-Irish, most were, a fair number where not. Then again this goes to for how long does ones family have to live somewhere before you are part of the place?
To this day, the vast majority of Protestant Scots who have lived in Ulster for centuries still consider themselves as subjects of the British Crown. Arthur Wellesley was born in Ireland but it is my understanding he never considered himself Irish.
 

fuji

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Can we agree that these paramilitaries and their supporters (i.e. enablers) were not "innocent civilians"?
Can we agree that the IRA bombing of bars and restaurants and the like killed a lot of people who had nothing to do with any paramilitary?
 

Aardvark154

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To this day, the vast majority of Protestant Scots who have lived in Ulster for centuries still consider themselves as subjects of the British Crown.
I never knew that being a British Subject was antithetical with being Irish. Are you next going to tell us that Irish Clan Chiefs who are members of the Church of Ireland are not really Irish?

Arthur Wellesley was born in Ireland but it is my understanding he never considered himself Irish.
Indeed that is true, however he was born less than a century after his family moved to Ireland.
 

Aardvark154

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The Stevens Inquiry also found that between 5 and 15% of British Army soldiers in N. Ireland were also loyalist paramilitary men, that the membership of the Army and the paramilitaries in fact overlapped.
I believe you will find that figure relates to the Ulster Regiment, not to the British Army as a whole or even to other Irish Regiments.
 

Rockslinger

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I never knew that being a British Subject was antithetical with being Irish.
The Protestant Scots who have lived in Ulster for centuries consider themselves to be British and not Irish. Just ask them and they will say so themselves. The "United Kingdom" includes Northern Ireland which is a land stolen from its rightful Irish heirs.
 

fuji

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I believe you will find that figure relates to the Ulster Regiment, not to the British Army as a whole or even to other Irish Regiments.
Yes, I was referring to the Ulster Regiment, which is, to put it in your style, an infantry regiment of the British Army.

As for the rest of the British Army, other elements of the army did indeed collude with the paramilitaries, though not to the same extent. Specifically British Army intelligence units colluded with the paramilitaries, passing on to them information about IRA members so as to enable the paramilitaries to kill them.

Brian Nelson was a member of the British Army.
 

Rockslinger

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Well thank God most of the Irish population both South and North have moved on from this viewpoint.
So true. Sometimes we just have to put a bit (ok, a lot) of water in our wine and move on. Can't dwell on historical injustices forever. Maybe this is a good stopping point. I only got involved because I thought the Irish in America and Ireland were being unfairly defamed.
 

fuji

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So true. Sometimes we just have to put a bit (ok, a lot) of water in our wine and move on. Can't dwell on historical injustices forever. Maybe this is a good stopping point. I only got involved because I thought the Irish in America and Ireland were being unfairly defamed.
Whereas they were being fairly defamed as terrorists and financial supporters of terrorists :rolleyes:
 

Captain Fantastic

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Bombing - or flying planes into, gunning down en masse for no rhyme/reason - civilians is terrorism. Period. Everything else is just semantics.

IRA = terrorist group. Al-Qaeda = terrorist group. Joseph Stack = terrorist. Timothy McVeigh (good Irish name) = terrorist.

Therefore those who support a terrorist or group they sympathize with are supporters of terrorism.
 

fuji

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I suppose everybody has their own list. My list would include Ulster Defense Association and the Special Air Service (at times).
I agree 100% with Captain Fantastic and I agree that UDA were 100% terrorists.

I'm less familiar with what Special Air Service may have done.
 

Rockslinger

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I'm less familiar with what Special Air Service may have done.
I was referring to the British Army Parachute Regiment who shot 27 unarmed civilian protestors on January 30, 1972 in what is known as the Bogside Massacre (aka Bloody Sunday). Shooting unarmed civilians in cold blood.
 

fuji

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I was referring to the British Army Parachute Regiment who shot 27 unarmed civilian protestors on January 30, 1972 in what is known as the Bogside Massacre (aka Bloody Sunday). Shooting unarmed civilians in cold blood.
Certainly it seems to me that those responsible for shooting fleeing protestors in the back should be held criminally accountable for their actions. Whether it meets the definition of terrorism or not, it was both reprehensible and criminal in my view.
 

scouser1

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Pickering
we still dont have an answer to whether you would add Hamas and Hezbollah to your list Rock? They both argue that they are national liberation movements trying to defend an oppressed people, much like the post 1969 provisional IRA. And as far as I am concerned the IRA, INLA, UDA, UFF, UVF, Red Hand Commandos are all nothing but a bunch of murderers and thugs. As was the RUC and the British military role in mass arrests and internments without charges of Catholics equally despicable.

Thank goodness that good decent people on both sides of this divide rose to the occasion and put pressure on the murderers and thugs that enough is enough!!!

I think the current Northern Ireland government is nothing short of a miracle!! a DUP lead/Sinn Fein deputy leadership is equal to if Hamas and Likud agreed to a coalition government.
 
Toronto Escorts