Top Ten Reasons East Jerusalem Does Not Belong to Jewish-Israelis

[fuji]

they were tribal kings

Supposing they were. So they're tribal kings of Jerusalem in the 1st temple, still there during the 2nd temple period. Sounds like they are the ancestral rulers of Jerusalem, big and small.

As I said, a better argument for splitting Jerusalem between the Jews and the Muslims is that the Muslim Palestinians are equally the descendants of those historic Jews. The fact that they have changed religions in the meantime should not really alter their historic claim to the city. Their ancestors were once upon a time Jews too.

If I could step in as Emperor Fuji and impose a solution I would make the historic Old City of Jerusalem, where all the religious monuments are, an international city with a governing council made up of religious authorities from all three religions and a mandate to preserve the status quo (no tearing down someone else's religious building and replacing it).

 

[Aardvark154]

While this is an interesting theological debate

Actually it's not particularly interesting. Canada-Man is putting forth all sortd of lunatic theories that can't hold their own in any scholarly discussion in an attempt to discredit both the Judeo-Christian faith tradition, but of course even more important to his mind the historical roots of Judaism in the Holy Land.


"jesusneverexisted.com," Now that's a scholarly theological publication if I ever heard of one.

 

[gramage]

Actually it's not particularly interesting. Canada-Man is putting forth all sortd of lunatic theories that can't hold their own in any scholarly discussion in an attempt to discredit both the Judeo-Christian faith tradition, but of course even more important to his mind the historical roots of Judaism in the Holy Land.


"jesusneverexisted.com," Now that's a scholarly theological publication if I ever heard of one.

Well I have heard the argument that Jesus didn't exist and it's not terrible, though there is at least one and I believe two non-biblical recordings of him existing so I think he did, though I don't accept the biblical account of his life.

 

[Aardvark154]

Well I have heard the argument that Jesus didn't exist.

I won't say never, but pretty much never made by anyone with even the remotest amount of knowledge of the time. Arguing whether Jesus was the Christ at least has some intellectual integrity.

 

[toguy5252]

The Jews have only been in Israel since 1972 when a plane headed for Florida made a wrong turn. Hence Israel is totally illegitimate and should be returned to the Palestinians to whom it rightfully belongs in its entirety.

Isn't that where this is leading?

 

[gramage]

The Jews have only been in Israel since 1972 when a plane headed for Florida made a wrong turn. Hence Israel is totally illegitimate and should be returned to the Palestinians to whom it rightfully belongs in its entirety.

Isn't that where this is leading?

Does that mean we rename Florida Israel? I'm confused now.

 

[toguy5252]

Does that mean we rename Florida Israel? I'm confused now.

LOL. As are a number of posters who have preceded you in this thread.

 

[canada-man]

Actually it's not particularly interesting. Canada-Man is putting forth all sortd of lunatic theories that can't hold their own in any scholarly discussion in an attempt to discredit both the Judeo-Christian faith tradition, but of course even more important to his mind the historical roots of Judaism in the Holy Land.


"jesusneverexisted.com," Now that's a scholarly theological publication if I ever heard of one.

Judaism was not around in the second milenium BCE

 

[toguy5252]

Judaism was not around in the second milenium BCE

Even if that were the case, which it is not, Judaism has bee around at least 1,000 before the Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammed beginning in the year 610 C.E., so I am not sure what your point is.

 

[Aardvark154]

Judaism was not around in the second milenium BCE

However, earlier you posted:

Judaism was established after the Persians conquered the middle east

So which is it: not before 1,000 B.C. or not until after 538 B.C.?
In either case how do you deal with the Tel Dan stele?

 

[Aardvark154]

Even if that were the case, which it is not, Judaism has bee around at least 1,000 before the Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammed beginning in the year 610 C.E., so I am not sure what your point is.

Also the Koran takes a very literalist perspective on all of this: e.g. the Exodus, King David, and King Solomon.

 

[Dandy_Dapper_Boy]

ALL OF ISRAEL BELONGS TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE
I am getting so sick of this conversation. There are so many problems in this world, who cares about the Palestinians and muslims. I hate to say it, but if the palestinians and their Islamic fundemental brothers disapeared off the face of this earth, NO ONE WOULD MISS THEM!!!

Israel does have the bomb, maybe they should use it.

 

[canada-man]

However, earlier you posted:

So which is it: not before 1,000 B.C. or not until after 538 B.C.?
In either case how do you deal with the Tel Dan stele?

the second milenium BC is from 2000-1000 BC BC years count backwards Judaism was established in the time of the persian empire 550–330 BC

 

[toguy5252]

Judaism was established in the time of the persian empire 550–330 BC

Well that would only be true if we chose to accept your revisionist and fictional view of history. I do not.

But again and in any event that is over 1,000 years before the beginning of Islam so what is your point.

 

[canada-man]

the bible is not a valid historical book

 

[gramage]

the bible is not a valid historical book

True, but since both the Muslims and Jews of that region accept it as such, if we're going to use that era as a reference for todays conflict it is unfortunately relevant. Both sides accept the old testament/Abrahamic origion stories as fact, the deviations don't come until a) the Jesus era (Muslims accept Jesus as profit though not son of god if I've learned this right) and then again with Mohammed.

 

[toguy5252]

the bible is not a valid historical book

Lets see the bible is not a valid historical book so lets de-legitimize Judaism and Christianity. But wait Muhammad refers to Moses among others from the old testament in the Koran so that he must have been wrong, with apologies who consider him to be infallible, so lets throw out Islam. I suppose then the final arbiter on what is historically accurate would then be you. Or should that be You.

 

[fuji]

ALL OF ISRAEL BELONGS TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE

Well, I'd quibble with that a bit. All of Israel belongs to the Israeli people. Most but not all of whom are Jewish.

 

[canada-man]

Lets see the bible is not a valid historical book so lets de-legitimize Judaism and Christianity. But wait Muhammad refers to Moses among others from the old testament in the Koran so that he must have been wrong, with apologies who consider him to be infallible, so lets throw out Islam. I suppose then the final arbiter on what is historically accurate would then be you. Or should that be You.

in the near east new religions copy stories from older religions. Moses appearing in the Koran is nothing new. the Bahai faith also mentioned the prophet mohammed

 

[Aardvark154]

the bible is not a valid historical book

It depends upon what you mean by that statement. Some parts of the bible have been more than confirmed by archaeology and/or outside documents.

Secondly, you are taking a post-enlightenment view of what is "truthful." That that perspective is quite helpful when talking about chemistry or physics, it is very much less so when talking of how peoples see themselves.