The City of Toronto gravy train found

havingfun

Active member
Jun 7, 2003
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Here it is. KPMG has released a report. Rob Ford's gravy train has been found. We all knew it was there. The city has been blowing money on fluoridating water, clearing snow, making it too easy to get rid of toxic waste, and there is more. Time to end all this and save the taxpayer money. I'm sure that if we implement ALL those suggestions we can save almost as much money as was paid to KPMG to produce the report. And those provincial standards that the report talks about. What it doesn't mention is that those should be lowered too. More money could be saved. Really, why should our air-quality, for example, be better than Beijing's? I'm sure Hudak can get us there. All power to Ford nation and the coming Hudak government.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...eaning-and-recycling-consultant-suggests?bn=1

From The Star
A city-hired consultant’s suggestions for cutting the costs of public works includes reduced snow plowing and street sweeping, eliminating the flouridization of Toronto’s drinking water and sending more trash to landfill.

The KPMG report released Monday looks at services provided by Toronto and ranks each as being “core” or less than vital, by comparing it with provincial requirements and service levels in other cities.

“The vast majority, 96 per cent, of services that report through the public works committee are core municipal services ...,” the report states.

KPMG ranked half the services as “at standard” — generally the level required by the province and other municipalities.

Some 30 per cent were slightly above the norm, “offering some opportunities for cost reduction by lowering the service level provided.”

Another 17 per cent of services “are delivered slightly below or below standard.”

Suggestions for cuts include:

• Eliminate the plowing of “windrows” — the piles of snow left at the bottom of driveways after a plow has gone by. Councillors have long bickered over the special service offered in North York, Etobicoke and Scarborough that costs about $3.7 million annually, or 4.3 per cent of the $87 million snow clearing budget. KPMG also suggests: “Snow plowing standards could be reduced marginally on residential streets.”

• The report notes that Toronto conducts street sweeping on all roads all summer. “Residential and collector streets could be left alone after the spring cleanup is completed.”

• Backing off Toronto’s “very aggressive” target of directing 70 per cent of household waste away from landfill through recycling could yield savings. It’s cheaper to send trash to a dump, that gap will only grow as Toronto recycles more and other municipalities have lower targets, KPMG states.

• Toronto Water service level “reflects high water quality produced at lower than target cost, but costs could be further reduced by eliminating fluoridation.”

• Eliminate community “environment days” hosted by councillors in each of their wards.

• End collection of toxic goods at environment days and cancel the “Toxic Taxi” that does household pickup for residents with large quantities of hazardous waste. Residents would have to take such recyclables to permanent city depots. KPMG notes, however, that: “The risk is that more toxic goods may be improperly disposed.”

• Eliminate “small commercial waste collection” and force the businesses to pay for private contractors, as large businesses now do.

• Scrap the four free tags each household gets per year for overflow garbage bags.

• Consider dramatically hiking the cost of permits for all street events” to recoup the city’s full cost.

• Consider reducing the scale of bike infrastructure.

• Outsource facility security services and grass cutting.

City Manager Joe Pennachetti’s covering report says the public consultation on service review confirmed that the citizens value and rely on city services.

The consultants’ reviews, being done across all city departments, are part of an effort by Mayor Rob Ford’s administration to cut or eliminate Toronto’s annual gap between what it collects in revenue and what it pays in city services.

Public consultations were held across the city, with residents split into groups and asked to debate the relative worth and cost of services, including public works services covered by KPMG in the first of the reports to be released.

The services the public considers important also rank as core and essential by KPMG: public transit; emergency response; water treatment and distribution; public health services; garbage; organics and recycling; roads and traffic; and public libraries.

Torontonians are, however, split on how to pay for the services. Some want higher property taxes and user fees, some would rather see service reductions and others want a combination
 

TeasePlease

Cockasian Brother
Aug 3, 2010
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That's just the tip of the iceberg. The real gravy is in the payroll. Wages account for nearly one-half of the city's $10 billion operating expenses.
 

larry

Active member
Oct 19, 2002
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"Scrap the four free tags each household gets per year for overflow garbage bags."

that's a big one. consultants! the one thing they are good for is to take the blame. now goofball ford can say 'that's what my consultants told me"! where's the gravy he spoke of? if he knew so much, the fat blowhard could have saved 3 mil just by telling a reporter. he wouldn't even have to write it down. the reporter would. more waste of my money.
 

havingfun

Active member
Jun 7, 2003
1,248
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That's just the tip of the iceberg. The real gravy is in the payroll. Wages account for nearly one-half of the city's $10 billion operating expenses.
You're a genius TeasePlease. Yes, the salaries! Other cities, for example, have volunteer fire departments. Let's stop paying the firemen and use volunteers. Get rid of the wages!
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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And it should be easy to find bruisers who will happily wear cop uniforms and carry guns for thirty thou instead of the eighty we pay.

More interesting is the heavy numbers in the 'public consultation' who said they'd happiliy pay higher taxes to get better services.
 

shrek71

Active member
Jul 12, 2006
783
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That's just the tip of the iceberg. The real gravy is in the payroll. Wages account for nearly one-half of the city's $10 billion operating expenses.
I agree that the real gravy is in the payroll. I recall reading a report that the City of Toronto has the highest number of mangers to workers. Something along the lines of 1 manager for every 4 - 5 workers. Whereas in the real world of the private sector the ratio is closer to 1 manager for every 15 - 18 workers. I saw on CP24 this morning that the city is considering buy out senior managers (offering early retirement packages) and that is supposed to save $2.8 million.

Other sources of the gravy train, in my view, are nepotism in the hiring of staff and sole sourcing of purchases (pick an arbitrary number of say $750 and everything over that has to be tendered out or shopped around). It's going to take a long time to undo all the spending damage created by past leftist, unionist, socialist mayors (Miller, Lastman, et al).

Cheers
 

fuji

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• Eliminate the plowing of “windrows” — the piles of snow left at the bottom of driveways after a plow has gone by. Councillors have long bickered over the special service offered in North York, Etobicoke and Scarborough that costs about $3.7 million annually, or 4.3 per cent of the $87 million snow clearing budget. KPMG also suggests: “Snow plowing standards could be reduced marginally on residential streets.”
Those were the areas that elected Ford. It will be interesting to see whether he takes up the report when it nails the people who voted for him.

• Scrap the four free tags each household gets per year for overflow garbage bags.
Another one that will primarily nail Ford voters, rather than downtown residents who mostly live in condos and apartments. Will be curious to see how this plays out.
 

TeasePlease

Cockasian Brother
Aug 3, 2010
7,732
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You're a genius TeasePlease. Yes, the salaries! Other cities, for example, have volunteer fire departments. Let's stop paying the firemen and use volunteers. Get rid of the wages!
That's not what I said, and using extremes to illustrate an argument is not helpful.

My point is that work conditions, benefits and wages are very generous with city jobs. The real question is whether the City needs all 36,000 of its employees. Why is it that an elementary school could be supported by 5 custodial staff in 2000 but now needs 7 custodians in 2010? Water, solid waste management, parks and rec...examples of overstaffing can be found in most if not all departments. Yet, no one will touch that rod because cutting jobs is political suicide.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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That's not what I said, and using extremes to illustrate an argument is not helpful.

My point is that work conditions, benefits and wages are very generous with city jobs. The real question is whether the City needs all 36,000 of its employees. Why is it that an elementary school could be supported by 5 custodial staff in 2000 but now needs 7 custodians in 2010? Water, solid waste management, parks and rec...examples of overstaffing can be found in most if not all departments. Yet, no one will touch that rod because cutting jobs is political suicide.
School custodial staff: Low flush toilets, more complex waste disposal and recycling rules, more safety concerns around cleaning and maintenance chemicals, as well as in playgrounds and in the buildings, more security concerns requiring kocking and unlocking… not hard to imagine some of the ways their job—much like yours probably—has gotten more complex over the decade. And modern schools, the buildings they're resonsible for, have short design lives. A school that was a decade old in 2000 could be in the last half of it's operating life by now. Which means more maintenance. But the school across from me would celebrate having their 2000-level staff increased by two more. What school are you talking about?

Please cite some examples of this "overstaffing". It happens in every operation under the sun, profit and non-profit, and as fast as one corrects it in one place it crops ups somewhere else. No one ever wants to be shorthanded.

But if it was the road to significant cost savings, those consultants Rob hired didn't find it and say so. Are you suggesting he wasted $3million hiring the wrong guys? That overstaffing I''ll give you.

BUt everywhere I look, I see work undone, needs unmet and services not offered. To me that sounds like understaffing.
 

shai

Member
Apr 11, 2002
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over half the budget I think goes to the cops. We have more cops than Canada has infantry. Any real savings will have to come here. No and or buts about it.

But wait, Robbo just raised their salary.

I guess he likes that flavour of gravy
 

fuji

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What about TCH wasteful spending on overpriced friends providing services?
TCH wasteful spending was less than the severance packages the city's forced to pay for having fired the exec....

So far Ford's "cost saving" moves have been fundamentally counter-productive. He blows a lot of hot air around these issues, but when you look at where the chips fall, he's costing the city more money than he is saving.

In addition to the idiotic handling of the TCH fiasco:

-- Guaranteeing TTC workers jobs for live and ever-increasing benefits by making it illegal to lock them out

-- Guaranteeing a rise in the police budget by rolling over and signing a juicy contract full of entitlements and salary rises

It just goes on and on. Rob Ford is very expensive to have a as a mayor.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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over half the budget I think goes to the cops. We have more cops than Canada has infantry. Any real savings will have to come here. No and or buts about it.

But wait, Robbo just raised their salary.

I guess he likes that flavour of gravy
i agree that cops are overpaid, even with the post 911 increased threat from bubbles, but the police budget is more like one tenth of the city budget
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,569
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TCH wasteful spending was less than the severance packages the city's forced to pay for having fired the exec....

.
On February 25, 2011, an audit conducted by Toronto's auditor general Jeffery Griffiths revealed a list of inappropriate expenses incurred by TCHC as a result of staff abusing the organizations' funds for personal interest. Examples include: A $1850 boat cruise for "staff development"; $1925 for manicures and pedicures; $6000 for a planning session in Muskoka; $53,500 for a 2008 staff party; $40,000 for a staff Christmas party in 2009; $800 to provide massages at a staff picnic.

Frequently deemed the most offensive of all the expenses by media figures, social advocates and TCHC residents alike was the purchase of a box of chocolates from luxury department store Holt Renfrew at a cost of $1000.00.

Additionally, contracts were given to personal associates to do repairs and install equipment, which in some case resulted in inferior work and equipment being provided. Some contracts were awarded multiple times, in one case leading to a personal associate of a TCHC staff member receiving two million dollars when the cost of the work should have been significantly less.

how much did keiko get paid?
 

OddSox

Active member
May 3, 2006
3,148
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Ottawa
School custodial staff: Low flush toilets, more complex waste disposal and recycling rules, more safety concerns around cleaning and maintenance chemicals, as well as in playgrounds and in the buildings, more security concerns requiring kocking and unlocking… not hard to imagine some of the ways their job—much like yours probably—has gotten more complex over the decade. And modern schools, the buildings they're resonsible for, have short design lives. A school that was a decade old in 2000 could be in the last half of it's operating life by now. Which means more maintenance. But the school across from me would celebrate having their 2000-level staff increased by two more. What school are you talking about?

Please cite some examples of this "overstaffing". It happens in every operation under the sun, profit and non-profit, and as fast as one corrects it in one place it crops ups somewhere else. No one ever wants to be shorthanded.

But if it was the road to significant cost savings, those consultants Rob hired didn't find it and say so. Are you suggesting he wasted $3million hiring the wrong guys? That overstaffing I''ll give you.

BUt everywhere I look, I see work undone, needs unmet and services not offered. To me that sounds like understaffing.
Or maybe they actually worked at 40-hour week - which is now 35 at the max, with an extra few weeks sick days and holidays...
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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BUt everywhere I look, I see work undone, needs unmet and services not offered. To me that sounds like understaffing.
to me it looks like lazy city staff not getting the job done.
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
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You're a genius TeasePlease. Yes, the salaries! Other cities, for example, have volunteer fire departments. Let's stop paying the firemen and use volunteers. Get rid of the wages!
Please give us an example of 'other cities the size of Toronto that has volunteer firefighters or even nearly the size of Toronto?
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,084
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over half the budget I think goes to the cops. We have more cops than Canada has infantry. Any real savings will have to come here. No and or buts about it.

But wait, Robbo just raised their salary.

I guess he likes that flavour of gravy
Say what? If you're going to say things like that, at least know wtf you're talking about. the only gravy I see is on your face. Want a bib?
 

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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Examples include: A $1850 boat cruise for "staff development"; $1925 for manicures and pedicures; $6000 for a planning session in Muskoka; $53,500 for a 2008 staff party; $40,000 for a staff Christmas party in 2009; $800 to provide massages at a staff picnic.

...

how much did keiko get paid?
She earned $217,617.31 and will likely receive at least one year's salary in severance. In addition they also terminated Ballantyne for similar pay and severance. Add on the inevitable legal fees for handling executive terminations and the city is likely going to pay out well over half a million dollars.

Sounds like the over-spending these two were guilty of equaled around 1/10th to 1/5th of the termination costs. The city COULD Have just waited out their contracts and fired them at no cost in a couple of years--but Rob Ford decided that something had to be done for the taxpayer.

Rob Ford is a genius!
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,569
8
38
She earned $217,617.31 and will likely receive at least one year's salary in severance. In addition they also terminated Ballantyne for similar pay and severance. Add on the inevitable legal fees for handling executive terminations and the city is likely going to pay out well over half a million dollars.

Sounds like the over-spending these two were guilty of equaled around 1/10th to 1/5th of the termination costs. The city COULD Have just waited out their contracts and fired them at no cost in a couple of years--but Rob Ford decided that something had to be done for the taxpayer.

Rob Ford is a genius!
you mean it would have been better to pay them more by waiting out their contracts and then firing them? not sure that adds up.
 
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