Prisoner exchange
- Thread starter basketcase
- Start date
Danmand, do you think Israel should not respond to rocket attacks?
Do you think hamas had no responsibility for palestinian casualties, when it intentionally puts it's launchers among densely populated civilian areas?
I know you won't answer, you idiotically think posting those numbers over and over absolves you of having to think what they mean or why.
Do you think hamas had no responsibility for palestinian casualties, when it intentionally puts it's launchers among densely populated civilian areas?
I know you won't answer, you idiotically think posting those numbers over and over absolves you of having to think what they mean or why.
Once again, your use of the word terrorism is not relevant or correct. Since you called the activists aboard the Gaza Flotilla terrorists, you have no credibility with the word.Of course you think this justifies terrorism. To you this means Israel should not defend itself from rocket attacks. That's how terrorists think.
And lets be clear here, the increase in settlements is the aggressive move here, you cannot claim defense when you are actively taking more land. It is the Palestinians who are defending against illegal theft of land, and Israel that is killing civilians while taking more land through their own predator drone rocket attacks. Once again, Israel is killing about 10 times the number of civilians as any Palestinian organization.
Firing rockets at civilians is terrorism. Blowing up a pizza joint is terrorism. Firing an anti-tank rocket at a school bus is terrorism. Ambushing a car and shooting a pregnant woman in cold blood is terrorism.
Plainly you think the dispute over land justifies terrorism. You have a terrorist mindset.
Plainly you think the dispute over land justifies terrorism. You have a terrorist mindset.
Firing rockets at civilians is terrorism. Blowing up a pizza joint is terrorism. Firing an anti-tank rocket at a school bus is terrorism. Ambushing a car and shooting a pregnant woman in cold blood is terrorism.
Plainly you think the dispute over land justifies terrorism. You have a terrorist mindset.
How are the Israelis responding to the land dispute? Did they offer to allow the court at the Hague to rule on it? Of course not, they would LOSE!!!!! So they have decided to take the land with steel and fire.
nottyboi, the Arabs are playing a bit of a coy game, don't you think? On the one hand they don't recognize Israel AT ALL, along any borders, whatsoever. Officially the Arabs don't believe any borders exist. None whatsoever. Yet then they turn around and complain that Israel is building settlements on the wrong side of--well on the wrong side of what? On the wrong side of a border they refuse to even admit exists?
Outside that region the rest of us mostly recognize that there should be a border between Israel and Palestine. The Israelis recognize that too, although they have encroached over it in various ways. The Palestinians simply don't recognize it at all.
From the Palestinian/Arab point of view the "land dispute" encompasses ALL of Israel.
In any case...
Regardless of where the various sides think the border should be, or whether they recognize each other's existence, attacks that target civilians are ALWAYS wrong. That is never an acceptable way to settle a dispute. Attack military targets, OK. Kidnap Israeli soldiers like Shalit--fine (though they should have given him ICRC access). But you do not attack civilians.
The democratic world, the world that believes in fundamental human rights, must crack down hard on terrorism wherever it raises its ugly head.
At the moment for whatever reason in the Israeli/Arab conflict the Arabs have chosen to operate primarily through terrorist attacks. Because of that choice that means they are pretty much in the wrong in EVERY Arab/Israeli encounter. That is because they have chosen to enbrace terrorism, and it is always wrong.
The Israelis walk a hard line, but they generally stay on the right side of the law with respect to who and what they attack--they target legitimate military installations. They go after them hard, perhaps harder than they should, but they are roughly following the law, and not outright embracing thuggery and terrorism the way the Palestinian side has.
Of course that could change. The Palestinians could, and should, embrace non-terrorist means to pursue the agenda. In that case it would not always be the case that they are morally wrong and Israel is morally right in most of their encounters.
But for the time being it is quite black and quite: Democracy versus terrorism.
Outside that region the rest of us mostly recognize that there should be a border between Israel and Palestine. The Israelis recognize that too, although they have encroached over it in various ways. The Palestinians simply don't recognize it at all.
From the Palestinian/Arab point of view the "land dispute" encompasses ALL of Israel.
In any case...
Regardless of where the various sides think the border should be, or whether they recognize each other's existence, attacks that target civilians are ALWAYS wrong. That is never an acceptable way to settle a dispute. Attack military targets, OK. Kidnap Israeli soldiers like Shalit--fine (though they should have given him ICRC access). But you do not attack civilians.
The democratic world, the world that believes in fundamental human rights, must crack down hard on terrorism wherever it raises its ugly head.
At the moment for whatever reason in the Israeli/Arab conflict the Arabs have chosen to operate primarily through terrorist attacks. Because of that choice that means they are pretty much in the wrong in EVERY Arab/Israeli encounter. That is because they have chosen to enbrace terrorism, and it is always wrong.
The Israelis walk a hard line, but they generally stay on the right side of the law with respect to who and what they attack--they target legitimate military installations. They go after them hard, perhaps harder than they should, but they are roughly following the law, and not outright embracing thuggery and terrorism the way the Palestinian side has.
Of course that could change. The Palestinians could, and should, embrace non-terrorist means to pursue the agenda. In that case it would not always be the case that they are morally wrong and Israel is morally right in most of their encounters.
But for the time being it is quite black and quite: Democracy versus terrorism.
I had to stop reading your post here, because of course the same is true of Israel. They don't recognize Palestine at all, borders, autonomy, civil rights, water rights....nottyboi, the Arabs are playing a bit of a coy game, don't you think? On the one hand they don't recognize Israel AT ALL, along any borders, whatsoever. Officially the Arabs don't believe any borders exist. None whatsoever. Yet then they turn around and complain that Israel is building settlements on the wrong side of--well on the wrong side of what? On the wrong side of a border they refuse to even admit exists?
And shall we get started on the number of UN resolutions Israel doesn't respect?
Israel is the aggressor.
And I'm just ignoring your terrorism comments, since you don't know what you are talking about.
Lets just talk about the numbers of civilians killed. Israel kills 10 times the number of civilians, and if you look at the ration of civilians to militants killed by both sides, Israel still kills more civilians proportionally then Palestinians. Israel has no moral high ground in the matter. The fact is they are still actively stealing land and killing more civilians while doing it. That's why there are so many UN resolutions, that and the creation of the largest population of stateless refugees and the world's largest open air prison.
Your posts contain so much fiction it is hard to know where to begin. They only demonstrate the bankruptcy of your position.I had to stop reading your post here, because of course the same is true of Israel. They don't recognize Palestine at all, borders, autonomy, civil rights, water rights....
And shall we get started on the number of UN resolutions Israel doesn't respect?
Israel is the aggressor.
And I'm just ignoring your terrorism comments, since you don't know what you are talking about.
Lets just talk about the numbers of civilians killed. Israel kills 10 times the number of civilians, and if you look at the ration of civilians to militants killed by both sides, Israel still kills more civilians proportionally then Palestinians. Israel has no moral high ground in the matter. The fact is they are still actively stealing land and killing more civilians while doing it. That's why there are so many UN resolutions, that and the creation of the largest population of stateless refugees and the world's largest open air prison.
Israel has been calling for negotiation and a peaceful resolution for over 40 years.
Even if you do not accept that the incontrovertible fact is that Netanyahu has accepted the framework for negotiations set out by the Quartet. It is Abbas who refuses to sit down and regardless of your red herrings about settlements etc. the Quartet is attempting to use its collective influence to get the parties to the table. It is Abbas who will not join the talks which might, however, remote the possibility may be, lead to a resolution and a sovereign Palestinian state which they deserve and is long overdue.
The stateless refugees have been created by their Arab brothers not Israel. The reason that there are no Jewish refugees notwithstanding that more Jews were expelled from Arab countries is that they took their place in counties into which they fled and were not exploited and abused by their hosts.
As you usual you attempt to make a moral equivalency between rocket attacks directed at civilian centers in Israel and attempts by Israel to take out the rocket launchers which Hams and their clients locate in population centers. In your world Israel should just sit back and do nothing. Fortunately for the people of Israel they live in a different world and i hope that we in Canada would respond the same way in such a case. Why not compare the number of Palestinian deaths in Gaza and the West Bank and ask your self why. While your at it compare life and economic activity in Gaza and the West Bank.
In my world they would sit down and work it out, not shoot rockets at each other, toguy.
Your point of view is not supported by the UN or the evidence of the Palestine Papers.[/QUOTE
I am heartened that you feel that way. So you obviously repudiate the actions of Hamas and their clients and support the right of Israel to defend itself. We are making progress.
With respect to the so called Palestine Papers etc. you continue to dwell in the past. Today is the time to negotiate. Netanyahu as accepted the Quartet framework. It is time for Abbas to do the same and sit down and hopefully negotiate a sovereign state for his people.
Netanyahu has not accepted the Quartet framework, he has offered a settlement freeze only on government developments, which is only a small part.
Both parties have the right to defend themselves, Israel routinely goes beyond that and kills about 10 times the civilians as Hamas.
Do you repudiate Israel's right to disproportionate responses?
Both parties have the right to defend themselves, Israel routinely goes beyond that and kills about 10 times the civilians as Hamas.
Do you repudiate Israel's right to disproportionate responses?
Both sides have a right to defend themselves by attacking military targets on the other side.
Neither side has a right to intentionally target civilians.
And again, the reason why so many Palestinian civilians are killed is that Hamas goes out of its way to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties. They intentionally put their launchers as close to civilians as they can.
Goldstone has confirmed that Israel does not have a policy of targeting civilians. Civilians get hit because they are right next to the Hamas/IJ military sites.
Neither side has a right to intentionally target civilians.
And again, the reason why so many Palestinian civilians are killed is that Hamas goes out of its way to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties. They intentionally put their launchers as close to civilians as they can.
Goldstone has confirmed that Israel does not have a policy of targeting civilians. Civilians get hit because they are right next to the Hamas/IJ military sites.
Proportional response.Both sides have a right to defend themselves by attacking military targets on the other side.
Neither side has a right to intentionally target civilians.
And again, the reason why so many Palestinian civilians are killed is that Hamas goes out of its way to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties. They intentionally put their launchers as close to civilians as they can.
Goldstone has confirmed that Israel does not have a policy of targeting civilians. Civilians get hit because they are right next to the Hamas/IJ military sites.
Look it up.
That's why its a war crime.
You may wish to check your facts and just what the Quartet has set as its framework for the resumption of negotiations.Netanyahu has not accepted the Quartet framework, he has offered a settlement freeze only on government developments, which is only a small part.
Both parties have the right to defend themselves, Israel routinely goes beyond that and kills about 10 times the civilians as Hamas.
Do you repudiate Israel's right to disproportionate responses?
"After consulting with ministers, Netanyahu welcomes Quartet's call for "direct negotiations without pre-conditions."
http://www.jpost.com/VideoArticles/Video/Article.aspx?id=240211
The impediment has been Abbas who efuses to rturn.
Israel's responses are proportional. (I suspect you don't know what that means.)Proportional response.
Look it up.
That's why its a war crime.
You are too funny. In a pathetic way of course. Would you prefer that Israel send thousands of rockets into civilian centers in Gaza. Israel at least attempts , with varying degrees of success to target the terrorists.Proportional response.
Look it up.
That's why its a war crime.
Both sides have a right to defend themselves by attacking military targets on the other side.
Neither side has a right to intentionally target civilians.
And again, the reason why so many Palestinian civilians are killed is that Hamas goes out of its way to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties. They intentionally put their launchers as close to civilians as they can.
Goldstone has confirmed that Israel does not have a policy of targeting civilians. Civilians get hit because they are right next to the Hamas/IJ military sites.
And Israel attacks them with no hesitation knowing full well then civilians will be killed. To me this is pretty much the same as intentionally killing civilians. Israel deliberately settles disputed land with civilians, it is the same as Hamas using human shields. Israel is using it's human shields to establish sovereignty over disputed territory.
That is the problem with you and your friends. You attempt to make a moral equivalence when none exists. Israel attempting to take out rocket launchers which are targeting their civilian centers is nothing at all like Ham and their clients intentionally targeting civilian centers.And Israel attacks them with no hesitation knowing full well then civilians will be killed. To me this is pretty much the same as intentionally killing civilians. Israel deliberately settles disputed land with civilians, it is the same as Hamas using human shields. Israel is using it's human shields to establish sovereignty over disputed territory.
Israel intentionally attacks civilian centers because there are alleged terrorists there. Hamas attacks Israeli centers because most of Israel's population are members of the military.. what difference is there? Some may argue that when a soldier leaves the front lines, he becomes a civilian, IMHO that is horseshit. Until he is fully discharged he is a soldier. And the military term for attacking military forces before they reach the battlefield is interdiction.. look it up sometime.That is the problem with you and your friends. You attempt to make a moral equivalence when none exists. Israel attempting to take out rocket launchers which are targeting their civilian centers is nothing at all like Ham and their clients intentionally targeting civilian centers.
