harper and mackay are two faced pieces of garbage

[blackrock13]

Jesus Murphy.

We are in a huge deficit situation here in Canada....trying to avoid Europe and U.S type blunders economically....and everyone has this "Don't make cuts in my backyard" mentality.

Talk about selfish.

Similarly....Everyone in Toronto liked Ford to make cuts..until he gets voted in and people realize "Wait a minute... I DID NOT MEAN HE CUT AN AREA THAT AFFECTS ME"...

Selfish bastards.

OK...lets say we go with Blackrocks idea. NO CUTS. Sure cut the Admin...but give it to the vets. Meaning NO CUTS.

Its ONE POT OF MONEY FOLKS. ONE PIE TO SLICE.

Of course...we could raise taxes if CUTS are frowned upon ...make the pie bigger....now that would help the vets and should satisfy the people in here who want the vets looked after.

The Conservative are choosing a soft target to cut, or so they think. It's not common sense, it's laziness. If they worked using commons sense they wouldn't have thought about changing the words to the national anthem back a bit. Remember that one? Common sense would mean stop lying about the $50 million used in the G20 pork barrel projects, or the lies about the F35 fighters. I could probably come up with a few more, but I'll stop there for now. Remember, they were to be better than Liberals, apparently that's not the case.

Just as a point of interest, Canada spends $3 Billion on it 700,000 veterans, 250,000 in their care. The USA $90 Billion to look after 23 millions vets, 3 million in their care. Australia spends $12 Billion for 400,000 veterans.

 

[ogibowt]

"political masters"? you sound positively Machiavellian.

What did you do on 11/11/11, other than lay a wreath (if that) wear a poppy, and look solemn?

its irrelevant what i did...im not the one cutting funding...your beloved man harper is...

 

[ogibowt]

LMFAO..... lefties criticizing anything a conservative does with the military is a massive joke.[/QUOTE


im glad i could bring some humour into your life

 

[fmahovalich]

Lets push this out another 20 years....

When all WWII guys are also gone...a huge number depleted.

And numbers are WAY WAY DOWN.....would that be the time to cut?

Or do we lower the $ as the Veterans numbers lower?

 

[nervous]

both of these ringworms piously saying the right things on Remembrance Day...their meaninless platitudes..all the while Veteran Affairs ministry funding is being cut 10%...shameless repugnant garbage...little or any after care for the soldiers coming home from afganistan,guys being jerked around for their pensions...i feel to vomit..

Obviously you are a person with a balanced view on these things....

...well lets have some perspective. When the current government came to power, the first thing they did was assess the issues our troops were having in Afghanistan and then went and acquired the equipment needed to keep them alive. They have greatly increased the pay of the regular soldier, given them a reason to feel pride again. but none of these or the many other actions counts....Typical lefty.

 

[blackrock13]

Lets push this out another 20 years....

When all WWII guys are also gone...a huge number depleted.

And numbers are WAY WAY DOWN.....would that be the time to cut?

Or do we lower the $ as the Veterans numbers lower?

In 20 years we'll deal with That question. Right now, we owe them. Somehow I doubt no one expects there won't be more veterans from new conflicts to support, but right now we have 700,000 of which ~160,000 are from WWII.

 

[blackrock13]

Obviously you are a person with a balanced view on these things....

...well lets have some perspective. When the current government came to power, the first thing they did was assess the issues our troops were having in Afghanistan and then went and acquired the equipment needed to keep them alive. They have greatly increased the pay of the regular soldier, given them a reason to feel pride again. but none of these or the many other actions counts....Typical lefty.

Your points are valid, but 'O' is commenting on the VAC, not the standing army.

 

[fmahovalich]

I certainly agree with the cuts...and while they are at it....perhaps they could spruce up the Investigative branch. From what I read..for every claim by a veteran, there are two fraudulent claims. Its time to reel that money back in and we would have more than enough!!!

 

[blackrock13]

I certainly agree with the cuts...and while they are at it....perhaps they could spruce up the Investigative branch. From what I read..for every claim by a veteran, there are two fraudulent claims. Its time to reel that money back in and we would have more than enough!!!

On this we can agree.

 

[oldjones]

I certainly agree with the cuts...and while they are at it....perhaps they could spruce up the Investigative branch. From what I read..for every claim by a veteran, there are two fraudulent claims. Its time to reel that money back in and we would have more than enough!!!

You'll share the source so we can all read that, I'm sure.

Otherwise, with no evidence presented, you are telling us that two out of every three of our former service people are crooks.

Once you have that cleared up, it would be interesting to do the numbers that show, as you contend, that there's enough criminal waste in Veterans' Affairs to satisfy all their legitimate needs. I would be amazed that Mr. Harper's Minister and the civil servants reporting to him are that incompetent. It that really what you think? Why ever are they in power then? I know I didn't vote for them, did you? Why?

Or is "…reel the money back in" another conservative nostrum that comforts the already-convinced being intended to have any real content. Like gravy trains.

 

[cye]

I certainly agree with the cuts...and while they are at it....perhaps they could spruce up the Investigative branch. From what I read..for every claim by a veteran, there are two fraudulent claims. Its time to reel that money back in and we would have more than enough!!!

Good idea lets demonize veterans along with immigrants, criminals , gays , it is the Harper way.

 

[fmahovalich]

No I an not saying 2 out of 3 are crooks. Far from it.

I am saying 2 out of 3..WHO MAKE A CLAIM... are crooks!

 

[cye]

Good now you are only demonizing claimants. In WWII many believed being shell shocked was a form of cowardice and there was no treatment for mental illness and how many lives were ruined when soldiers returned and families were torn apart by post traumatic stress. Balancing the budget is an admirable goal but blaming the deficit on fraudulent veterans seems a bit much. Pursuing prosecution of fraudulent claims seems a better way to make sure resources are properly allocated.

 

[fmahovalich]

You are correct Cye. As I properly pointed out earlier in the thread!

 

[FatOne]

Its a matter of scale. Our military is so small by yesteryear standards. Proportionally they are doing all right.

Think of it this way. In World WAR I, there were 11,000 Allied troops KILLED AFTER the Armistace (sp) was signed. YES after the WAR WAS OVER. THE numbers are staggering.

TODAY, WE LOSE 156 IN Afghanistan (OVER YEARS) and the repatriation and notoriety is above and beyond what those poor guys in 1918 got.

Its ALL ABOUT SCALE!

Subjected to the full force of the 119th (Reserve) Infantry Regiment, most of the Newfoundland Regiment who had started forward were dead, dying or wounded within 15 to 20 minutes of leaving St. John's Road trench.[23] Most reached no further than the Danger Tree, a skeleton of a tree that lay in No Man's Land that was being utilized as a landmark.[24] So far as can be ascertained, 22 officers and 758 other ranks were directly involved in the advance.[24] Of these, all the officers and slightly under 658 other ranks became casualties.[24] Of the 780 men who went forward only about 110 survived unscathed, of whom only 68 were available for roll call the following day.[24] For all intents and purposes the Newfoundland Regiment had been wiped out, the unit as a whole having suffered a casualty rate of approximately 90%. The only unit to suffer greater casualties during the attack was the 10th Battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment, attacking west of Fricourt village.[25]

 

[FatOne]

Good now you are only demonizing claimants. In WWII many believed being shell shocked was a form of cowardice and there was no treatment for mental illness and how many lives were ruined when soldiers returned and families were torn apart by post traumatic stress. Balancing the budget is an admirable goal but blaming the deficit on fraudulent veterans seems a bit much. Pursuing prosecution of fraudulent claims seems a better way to make sure resources are properly allocated.

I have a cousin who brags about a fake psych claim. Has himself a nice little pension. Physical injuries are one thing but psych injuries are so easy to fake, what can one do. [I don't have the answers.

My mothers uncle was declared dead during WWI by accident. I read the Dooh! letter. Don't know if he made it to 1918, but considering the assfucking the RnfldR went through I doubt it. Too late to ask now I guess.

 

[Aardvark154]

Subjected to the full force of the 119th (Reserve) Infantry Regiment, most of the Newfoundland Regiment who had started forward were dead, dying or wounded within 15 to 20 minutes of leaving St. John's Road trench.[23] Most reached no further than the Danger Tree, a skeleton of a tree that lay in No Man's Land that was being utilized as a landmark.[24] So far as can be ascertained, 22 officers and 758 other ranks were directly involved in the advance.[24] Of these, all the officers and slightly under 658 other ranks became casualties.[24] Of the 780 men who went forward only about 110 survived unscathed, of whom only 68 were available for roll call the following day.[24] For all intents and purposes the Newfoundland Regiment had been wiped out, the unit as a whole having suffered a casualty rate of approximately 90%. The only unit to suffer greater casualties during the attack was the 10th Battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment, attacking west of Fricourt village.[25]

The Danger Tree
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/cvwmuploads/published/722102_3.jpg

Map
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/memorials/ww1mem/beaumonthamel/bmemory#bhmap

Memorial
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/public/pages/memorials/ww1mem/BeaumontHamel/images/bhmem.jpg


All of these battlefields are very moving, I strongly recomend that anyone who is visting France take a few days and tour them.

 

[Possum Trot]

Just as a point of interest, Canada spends $3 Billion on it 700,000 veterans, 250,000 in their care. The USA $90 Billion to look after 23 millions vets, 3 million in their care. Australia spends $12 Billion for 400,000 veterans.

These figures seem low in comparison to other countries. What I want to know is what we spend on healthcare, pensions and other direct payment to vets seperate from the cost of the ministry. For instance the US number of $90 billion includes the costs of 280,000 employees in the VA. 280,000 to look after 3 million doesn't strike me as hugely efficient. In other words there may be diseconomies of scale here as there often is with bureaucracy.

We lack sufficient information but anecdotally it would seem we could do more for the same amount.

PS As far as the fake claims are concerned, by all means do what is prudent to stop them but I think a more fertile ground would be Unemployment and Welfare claims., this is not the main issue here.

 

[Hangman]

its irrelevant what i did...im not the one cutting funding...your beloved man harper is...

Your actions are irrelevant? OK. Perhaps you need to find a way to improve your interactions with the world.

I don't know who told you I love Harper, either. You seem to be very angry. I. Just wish you wouldn't use faux rage at the plight of my fellow veterans to make your point.

 

[ogibowt]

Your actions are irrelevant? OK. Perhaps you need to find a way to improve your interactions with the world.

I don't know who told you I love Harper, either. You seem to be very angry. I. Just wish you wouldn't use faux rage at the plight of my fellow veterans to make your point.

''

hangman, i rarely start threads on this site, but i got worked up at the hypocrisy of these two guys, that i had to get it off my chest....i still dont agree with cuts to veteran affairs....not withstanding any disagreements from you or anyone else....and yes i got angry...but normally im well adjusted, happy and content with life....even if im lectured by anonymous handles on a chat board..